[SGPopp]

Not one Amsoil 2 cycle option listed?

By in large they choose to not get API or OEM approvals for any of their products. Theoretically, an OEM could deny an oil related warranty claim because at a minimum all OEM's require an API TC-W3. TC-W3 is the minimum requirement and the only requirement because it's the only API certification in existence for 2-stroke water cooled engines.

 

[BattleStorm]

By in large they choose to not get API or OEM approvals for any of their products. Theoretically, an OEM could deny an oil related warranty claim because at a minimum all OEM's require an API TC-W3. TC-W3 is the minimum requirement and the only requirement because it's the only API certification in existence for 2-stroke water cooled engines.

Polaris, Cat and Doo require a TC-W3 oil for sleds? I’ve never seen that rating on a Polaris VES oil bottle.

 

[SGPopp]

Polaris, Cat and Doo require a TC-W3 oil for sleds? I’ve never seen that rating on a Polaris VES oil bottle.

Every liquid cooled 2-stroke will require a TC-W3 product because it's the only current API certification. There needs to be a minimum threshold and TC-W3 is the current threshold. Same goes for an outboard, a motocross bike, a scooter, whatever. The Polaris manual for my '21 SBA 650 says I have to use one of three Polaris oils. Per the Magnuson-Moss act if Polaris tells me I have to use Polaris branded oil, it needs to be provided free of charge. This has been discussed many times. In reality, I only need to use a TC-W3 product and warranty CANNOT be denied for an oil related engine issue.

I sell lubricants for a living and deal with this on a weekly basis. Sometimes daily. John Deere, Cat, Volvo, GM Dexos...the list goes on.

 

[Hockeypuck]

Jaso or API certifications for snowmobiles?... tcw3 is usually for outboard motor oil?...

 

[Remi33]

Found this video - it’s June and the video is a few years old but since we’re on the topic…

 

[BattleStorm]

Every liquid cooled 2-stroke will require a TC-W3 product because it's the only current API certification. There needs to be a minimum threshold and TC-W3 is the current threshold. Same goes for an outboard, a motocross bike, a scooter, whatever. The Polaris manual for my '21 SBA 650 says I have to use one of three Polaris oils. Per the Magnuson-Moss act if Polaris tells me I have to use Polaris branded oil, it needs to be provided free of charge. This has been discussed many times. In reality, I only need to use a TC-W3 product and warranty CANNOT be denied for an oil related engine issue.

I sell lubricants for a living and deal with this on a weekly basis. Sometimes daily. John Deere, Cat, Volvo, GM Dexos...the list goes on.

View attachment 2148065

Polaris sled oils are not TC-w3 rated and Polaris doesn’t put any ratings on sled oils. They can’t deny anyone warranty for running an oil like Amsoil that’s not TC-W3 rated.

 

[SShooterZ]

I’ve seen JASO-FD and SAE Grade 4 (F/M4) for Ski Doo. Never TC-W3, which is linked above from the National Marine Manufacturers Association.

 

[SGPopp]

Polaris sled oils are not TC-w3 rated and Polaris doesn’t put any ratings on sled oils. They can’t deny anyone warranty for running an oil like Amsoil that’s not TC-W3 rated.

I personally don't have any issue with Amsoil. We do a lot of work with them on the Amsoil Industrial side. They private label some products for us and they're good people. I just run a different product for my sleds.

 

[ExcursionPSD]

Every liquid cooled 2-stroke will require a TC-W3 product because it's the only current API certification. There needs to be a minimum threshold and TC-W3 is the current threshold. Same goes for an outboard, a motocross bike, a scooter, whatever. The Polaris manual for my '21 SBA 650 says I have to use one of three Polaris oils. Per the Magnuson-Moss act if Polaris tells me I have to use Polaris branded oil, it needs to be provided free of charge. This has been discussed many times. In reality, I only need to use a TC-W3 product and warranty CANNOT be denied for an oil related engine issue.

I sell lubricants for a living and deal with this on a weekly basis. Sometimes daily. John Deere, Cat, Volvo, GM Dexos...the list goes on.

View attachment 2148065

Polaris lawyers weaseled out of this, and the United States Magnuson Moss-ACT rules.

If you look carefully, the blue heading: "OIL RECOMMENDATION" is ABOVE
the Blue NOTICE about "NEVER mix oil brands or use non-recommended oil. ..."

So that blue heading, has the legal effect of making a sentence that reads kind of like a requirement, (NEVER ...) into only a legal RECOMMENDATION.
Pretty slippery, right!

 

[xhardcorerider]

Jaso or API certifications for snowmobiles?... tcw3 is usually for outboard motor oil?...

Usually Jaso fc, or fd are on most aftermarket synthetic snowmobile oils.
As far as tcw3 or BIA...you'll see that for most water cooled outboard marine applications. It can be for air cooled also. I think if your only seeing tcw3 on a 2 stroke oil, the company didn't have it certified for any of the stricter ratings out there.

 

[SHOOT2KILL2]

Fuck it...Im going back to straight 30 wt dino oil like we used in the late 1960's and early 1970's...lol

 

[xhardcorerider]

Fuck it...Im going back to straight 30 wt dino oil like we used in the late 1960's and early 1970's...lol

Good ol castol bean oil is awesome.

 

[northstarrick]

TCW-3 is a marine rating only. it has to do with ash content in a marine oil for the EPA. nothing to do with liquid cooled snowmobile engines. your sled oil better have a JASO FC&FD rating, ISO EGD, OR API TC, and say it exceeds these? or i would only start a brush pile fire with it.

 

[SGPopp]

TCW-3 is a marine rating only. it has to do with ash content in a marine oil for the EPA. nothing to do with liquid cooled snowmobile engines. your sled oil better have a JASO FC&FD rating, ISO EGD, OR API TC, and say it exceeds these? or i would only start a brush pile fire with it.

TC is the same at TC-W3.

TC = Two Cycle
W = Water Cooled
3 = 3rd generation of the approval

All two stroke oils have ash in them. Two stroke oils tend to be higher in ash than most oils actually. Virtually all oils have ash in them for that matter. Ash is a reference to a crucible test where oil is burned off to the point that only the additive metals remain. The ash that remains is from the zinc, phosphorus, sulfur, titanium, molybdenum, and handful of other metals. Two strokes are high ash oils because they have no emissions systems and these elements are inexpensive anti-wear and extreme pressure additives. Modern automotive and diesel engines with DPF's and catalytic converters require a low ash oil because the ash from these metals plates out on the emissions systems causing problems.


JASO = Japanese Automobile Standards Organization. Primarily used in Asia and Europe or for engines and brands from those regions.

ISO-L-EGD = JASO FD
ISO EGD is just a different way to reference the JASO rating system. This is basically a detergency test. I would assume the oil must meet minimum levels of calcium and magnesium, the most common oil detergent additives.

 

[mile9c1]

I'm running XPS oil in my Polaris 800 next season. It's a little cheaper since I bought it in the 2.5 gallon jug. Tried it last year and it seemed to smell better than VES. I don't think there are any bad oils though. One of my buddies runs APV oil and I would encourage more use of this oil, it smells great.

 

[xhardcorerider]

TC is the same at TC-W3.

TC = Two Cycle
W = Water Cooled
3 = 3rd generation of the approval

All two stroke oils have ash in them. Two stroke oils tend to higher in ash than most oils actually. Virtually all oils have ash in them for that matter. Ash is a reference to a crucible test where oil is burned off to the point that only the additive metals remain. The ash that remains is from the zinc, phosphorus, sulfur, titanium, molybdenum, and handful of other metals. Two strokes are high ash oils because they have no emissions systems and these elements are inexpensive anti-wear and extreme pressure additives. Modern automotive and diesel engines with DPF's and catalytic converters require a low ash oil because the ash from these metals plates out on the emissions systems causing problems.


JASO = Japanese Automobile Standards Organization. Primarily used in Asia and Europe or for engines and brands from those areas.

ISO-L-EGD = JASO FD
ISO EGD is just a different way to reference the JASO rating system. This is basically a detergency test. I would assume the oil must meet minimum levels of calcium and magnesium, the most common oil detergent additives.

So is BIA now NMMA when you come across a tcw3 oil.

 

[Hockeypuck]

I just googled Ashless two-cycle oil and there's quite a few of them...

 

[SGPopp]

So is BIA now NMMA when you come across a tcw3 oil.

Yes, I had to do a Google search though.

 

[SHOOT2KILL2]

Blains Farm n Fleet currently has the Mystik JT-4 Synthetic Blend 2s oil on sale $14.99 gal...

 

[letsirkdor]

Let's just put it this way if your running that stuff. Be sure to fog the engine well if you're not going to ride the sled for a few weeks. Seen enough engines apart with dry internals beginning to rust.

This is so untrue I can't even believe I just read it here.
If you have had this happen it is not because of the oil. I personally, all of my family and most of my friends have been running amsoil for 20+ years with absolutely zero failures. Chainsaws that sit for months on end, leaf blowers, weed whackers, 2 stroke quads, bikes, etc... A couple of said friends are some of the most knowledgeable I've ever meet, run used iq R's and will top end them often. I have seen these things taken apart after sitting all summer long in an enclosed trailer with not a spec of rust. Most of my sleds see over 10,000 miles after I sell them.
I'm not saying amsoil is better or worse than anything else, stick with what you like, but in my circle there have been countless sleds over the years (well over 30 in my family alone) running it with flawless results.
I clean my valves annually as part of maintenance. I put 3800 on my '16 without touching them and they came apart beautifully, and wiped off with some carb or brake cleaner and at the very worst some super fine steel wool in the recess' , as they have in every sled I and my family has owned. Only issue I ever had with valves was when I switched to I pone for a bit, and I believe that is a fine oil but had a negative reaction with what residue was left from the amsoil, they gummed up hard in about 200 miles.
Further more, I have not seen an engine failure that can be blamed on a BRAND of oil as long as you are using the appropriate product.