Mine should be here today or tomorrow, it will be hard for you to get much feedback on this because not many people have been in snow yet.

 

I just wanted to see if anyone has tried the TCL Delete Kit form Evolution Powersports? Did it sole the belt issue? Just looking for some unbiased feedback before I spend that kind of money.

2x:thumbsup:

 

Design makes sense, back to the way they were.

 

Suppose that I do not understand how the TCL does NOT work. It would stand to reason that if the engine, "primary" and the secondary are tied together, then the alignment should be 100% all the time.

If you remove the TCL, then the engine can move independent of the secondary and that would cause mis-alignment.

I know it moved with the TCL, guess I would have to see the issue with my own eyes to understand, the videos just dont cut it for me.

 

Suppose that I do not understand how the TCL does NOT work. It would stand to reason that if the engine, "primary" and the secondary are tied together, then the alignment should be 100% all the time.

If you remove the TCL, then the engine can move independent of the secondary and that would cause mis-alignment.

I know it moved with the TCL, guess I would have to see the issue with my own eyes to understand, the videos just dont cut it for me.

hang in there time will tell:snack:

 

They got rid of the TCL on the Yamaha motored arctic cat and is a similar design to the delete. Problem with TCL is they have to use wobble bearings lets the jack shaft move around and the motor shakes it makes the whole thing shake all over

 

They got rid of the TCL on the Yamaha motored arctic cat and is a similar design to the delete. Problem with TCL is they have to use wobble bearings lets the jack shaft move around and the motor shakes it makes the whole thing shake all over

In my opinion if they could have fit the TCL in the Yamaha it would have gotten one.

 

mine is on it's way to me as we speak, but i will not have any real feedback till mid january.

 

The TLC does not work when it comes to the transfer of heat to the bearing. All grease cooks out and then it's dry. New bearing please.
Chad

 

The belt ballooning is definitely part of the problem and this is where the tcl becomes a greater liability. As you said it snaps the belts. The reason is drive belts are extremely strong but cannot take a shock load. By having the engine and jackshaft separated, (tcl deleted) motor mounts absorb some of the load which removes some from the belt.

Our testing shows irrespective of the ballooning problem, the bending of the secondary clutch and ever changing parallelism creates intolerable levels of heat into the belt, sheaves, bearings, etc.

Sent from Snowmobile.com Free App

 

I have got some concerns with this TCL eliminator. They are just concerns I mean no disrespect to the people that made it.

Last year the most talked about product for the turbocharged pro-cross was the OSP Jack shaft support. It solidly mounted the Jack shaft to the frame just like this bracket does, the only difference being the engine is on motor mounts to independently move from the secondary. So basically the TCL eliminator is the same thing as the OSP mount with the exception of the engine mounts. The only thing we hear from the OSP mount today is crickets.

Again no disrespect to the builder of this product but why didn't they buy, borrow, or steal two identical stock turbocharge sleds, prepped them the same, put the same belts on them and start putting miles on the sleds. Go as far north as they can to find snow and when they can't find snow do like the factories and mount radiators on them and keep running in the dirt and prove this product.

Now again I don't mean no disrespect to anyone and if this works I'll be the first one in line to buy it but for me I'll just have to wait and see.

 

Last year the most talked about product for the turbocharged pro-cross was the OSP Jack shaft support. It solidly mounted the Jack shaft to the frame just like this bracket does, the only difference being the engine is on motor mounts to independently move from the secondary. So basically the TCL eliminator is the same thing as the OSP mount with the exception of the engine mounts.

although i do have the eliminator kit coming, i am not in the least bit biased because clearly i have no idea if it works or not. i will find out soon enough.
that said, comparing the tcl delete kit to the osp mount is completely wrong. the osp mount simply helps to prevent the whole assembly from moving back, engine and jackshaft together.
the tcl delete kit allows the engine to move completely independently of the jackshaft like we've been doing since the dawn of time. will it work? i have no idea, but i will be the first to tell you if it doesnt.

 

On top of what LM53 said and Im with him - no disrespect to anyone or any business on here and for the record I've had a problematic sled Ive broken a jackshaft and melted belts (this on a 800.. not a turbo) so I am interested in anything that is a cure , I love my sled and don't want to trade it but why would I keep throwing my wallet at it.

where are the numbers/data supporting that the shafts are flexing or that the tcl is flexing etc. How much are the shafts flexing , how much are the tcls flexing how far out of parallelism are they.

We see a lot of products like the osp shaft support, the Bradley arm, etc that will " cure the belt problem" but no true fixes - I got 150 miles out of a belt (previously 135 all of my belts were broke in using a piece of tubing to prevent anything over 1/2 miles for the break in period) after putting the Bradley arm on and people swore by it took it off changed belts broke it in same results then on the next belt boom jackshaft broke while breaking in another belt (limited at 1/2 throttle).

I have gotten from another company that doesn't advertise on the sites a explaination for what could solve my belt issues and they gave me hard facts as to belt temps at failure, belt temps at operating range before a failure and what they found for root cause of the failure, and after their product what the belt temps were afterwords using the same pulls in their testing as before and mileage reports. I have yet to go this route in hopes that the 500 dollars in cat updates being sold to me might help.

Again no disrespect to anyone and I applaud you all for stepping up to help. But tell me why I should give more money to gamble on the sled being fixed vs sending it down the road and changing brands.

Im just asking as your consumer and potential buyer - show me data before and after the fix and not claims. I've gotten all the snake oil I can for this 800 and its still a brick to me.

Again not trying to be a dick or anything just wanting more info then yeah it works.

 

On top of what LM53 said and Im with him - no disrespect to anyone or any business on here and for the record I've had a problematic sled Ive broken a jackshaft and melted belts (this on a 800.. not a turbo) so I am interested in anything that is a cure , I love my sled and don't want to trade it but why would I keep throwing my wallet at it.

where are the numbers/data supporting that the shafts are flexing or that the tcl is flexing etc. How much are the shafts flexing , how much are the tcls flexing how far out of parallelism are they.

We see a lot of products like the osp shaft support, the Bradley arm, etc that will " cure the belt problem" but no true fixes - I got 150 miles out of a belt (previously 135 all of my belts were broke in using a piece of tubing to prevent anything over 1/2 miles for the break in period) after putting the Bradley arm on and people swore by it took it off changed belts broke it in same results then on the next belt boom jackshaft broke while breaking in another belt (limited at 1/2 throttle).

I have gotten from another company that doesn't advertise on the sites a explaination for what could solve my belt issues and they gave me hard facts as to belt temps at failure, belt temps at operating range before a failure and what they found for root cause of the failure, and after their product what the belt temps were afterwords using the same pulls in their testing as before and mileage reports. I have yet to go this route in hopes that the 500 dollars in cat updates being sold to me might help.

Again no disrespect to anyone and I applaud you all for stepping up to help. But tell me why I should give more money to gamble on the sled being fixed vs sending it down the road and changing brands.

Im just asking as your consumer and potential buyer - show me data before and after the fix and not claims. I've gotten all the snake oil I can for this 800 and its still a brick to me.

Again not trying to be a dick or anything just wanting more info then yeah it works.

Time will tell :c-n::snack:

 

Well if you search back you'll see how I was the bad guy for asking these exact questions. I would love to see something work. But the fact of the mater is this kit has only been on one sled. A sled that has an aftermarket primary, and secondary and bunch of other stuff added about the same time. No disrespect to them either, but before anyone boasts about amazing results they better have proof. Sounds like several guys jumped all over this so we should get real testing soon. But my prediction is the guys that sell this setup will also soon be telling everyone once they realize it doesn't solve belt issues that you also need to have and a new secondary (a proven issue), and a new primary (a proven issue on some) , and vent properly (a proven issue), and new jackshaft (a proven issue).

 

Well if you search back you'll see how I was the bad guy for asking these exact questions. I would love to see something work. But the fact of the mater is this kit has only been on one sled. A sled that has an aftermarket primary, and secondary and bunch of other stuff added about the same time. No disrespect to them either, but before anyone boasts about amazing results they better have proof. Sounds like several guys jumped all over this so we should get real testing soon. But my prediction is the guys that sell this setup will also soon be telling everyone once they realize it doesn't solve belt issues that you also need to have and a new secondary (a proven issue), and a new primary (a proven issue on some) , and vent properly (a proven issue), and new jackshaft (a proven issue).

proven by who? because a completely new, aftermarket secondary along with added venting in front and fully vented side panels made ZERO difference on mine.

 

Thats funny shit you guys lol

 

Come on boys,lets all get along,i think there is a lot of good reasoning here,on both sides,i do believe the delete system is a better option,but like greag stated,if all things were equal,and in proper operating order the way the procross came out may have just worked on all the sleds it was ment for,but because all machines are not manufactured to the spec they should be,than this system with bad parts just does not pan out so good,that stated to,the ballooning is a very real problem,and in my case I think it has caused a few of my belts to snap because of it,and it along. Enough said,lets all wait till some others who got the complete kit have some trail miles in abusive conditions chime in and state what they find.

 

What we have done with this TCL delete is nothing new, I know from going to shows with it people look at it and think that it is something that is new and stare at it and ask what we are trying to do and infact the idea it is about as old as snowmobiling is it's self it just so happens to be built to work with what is there as a procross chassis and have the drive train separate from the motor and is a more extreme approach to what others have done. This approach cost more to do but is effective and I find that my sled is way better than it ever was the clutches now don't have the black grey look that they had before the belt dust that was on the tunnel that us guys with the white sleds is virtually gone and is acceptable now and I don't have to go to the car wash and wash my sled after every 30 mile ride. I know that everybody is curious about it and some are just going to do it and others will stand by and watch and see, the guys in my area that have seen what it does and have seen all the steps that I have taken to get here with this product are all putting it on because to them it now makes sence to them because they understand what is all happening because they see the parts that cause the problems and see what this new or not so new TCL delete does. The thing that I tell people is that there is too many varibles going on with the stock system and in stock form ya it maintains the 11.5" ctc when the machine is just sitting but you apply power and the jackshaft bends and the bearings allow it to (and then there is the whole chaincase issue that this fixes too) because of the way its designed when the motor moves all of the alignment you have goes out the window and causes most of these belt problems that we have is due to misalignment and with stock and even with big power and more torque is going to make it worse esspecialy if you are the guy with the super soft motor mounts and your motor is flopping around like a fish out of water its just too many varibles to control. So with this TCL that we use the drive system is separate from the motor and part of the chassis so that area is controlled and the motor is mounted to the frame as it always has in the past and is now adjustable to get your alignment to where it needs to be and then we use the engine snubber from OSP that most of you guys already have and control the motor for ctc and to maintain ctc at full power with a bit of postitive twist on the motor so that at full power the mag side motor mount will compress a very small amount that the engine will be in perfect alignment under full power and most don't understand that these motors have way more torque than any 2 stroke and have a very wide torque curve instead of a peaky one and that is what moves stuff around. Anyways I hope this may shed a bit of light to what this is all about and its nothing new. As Jim said earlier this is not a fix for bad clutches or cluches ballooning that is a clutching issue and I have worked on that issue too and will keep you guys posted on that too. So for now guys don't forget we are all on the same team here.
Cam (TURBIE)

 

I have a honest and legitimate question. You say the problem is the Jack shaft link to the motor you take the Jack shaft off the engine and mount it to the frame then with the motor on mounts you say you need a OSP engine snubber to try and tie the engine and secondary back together. Haven't you come full circle right back to where you were in the beginning. Now if any of the cheerleaders jump all over me for asking this question I'm going to take that as you see faults in this also and can't come up with a good explanation. This to me seems like just another flavor of Kool-Aid OSP tried to serve up last year and I'm not drinking it till I see results. One other thing, I don't buy the fact that the Jack shaft is flexing when it's mounted to the engine but somehow when it's mounted to the frame it doesn't. It sees the same load on it whatever it's mounted to plain and simple.

 

Well just got back from riding today and another great day of fun and snow and still running the same old pos belt from last year that has a flat spot from when I hooked a stump with my ski and the tunnel is still clean I should have posted a pic but it was too dark to take a pic. I inspected the belt and look s just the same as it did when we went out last weekend with dirty glazed up clutches. Here is a couple of pics of what we were riding in and one pic of jenn on my sled on the same corner of the trail last year dec 10th

 

I asked this before and didn't get a response. How cool are the clutches running with your setup? I am very interested in the TCL delete kit that you sell. I don't have a belt blower but my clutches are super hot and because of that I don't hold it past 100mph for very long. They run super hot just holding it at 60mph.

 

Yamaha didn't use the tcl because they are no stupid.

Look back in my posts I have been saying this since the 2012s -
If ANYTHING moves in the drive system you are screwed.

The only thing that should move is the secondary can float on the shaft.

My 1 cent.

KK4

 

Isn't it funny how Yamaha has the best belt life in the industry and this is the way they have been setup for years. It is a joke among Yamaha owners how they don't even carry a spare belt....

 

And too what is funny Yamaha doesn't even use a roller secondary. Sliding buttons on a ramp. Old school. And in SnowGoer they mention that because it's old school it works better on a 4stroke. It's probably that delay in the buttons sliding that instead of "popping" out of gear like we see in the videos that Yammys don't do that due to the restrictions of the sliding button arrangement slowing down the shifting. They made some mention of it in the their article how it does slow down the shift ups.

Steve

 

And too what is funny Yamaha doesn't even use a roller secondary. Sliding buttons on a ramp. Old school. And in SnowGoer they mention that because it's old school it works better on a 4stroke. It's probably that delay in the buttons sliding that instead of "popping" out of gear like we see in the videos that Yammys don't do that due to the restrictions of the sliding button arrangement slowing down the shifting. They made some mention of it in the their article how it does slow down the shift ups.

Steve

bingo,this is one of the reasons why my turbo will have one of my button yammie secondary's onit,so once i get it togeather and some testing i will share my results.

 

that is interesting. I should put the old button style cover on my tuner secondary just to try out. it's nice having that option now that I think about it

 

ya joe if you can do that,it may shed some light on part of this belt problem.

 

ill see what she does on the stand with the TAPP and STM tuner with roller then switch to button

 

Cool,thanks joe,man a tapp primary,i bet you wont have any belt issues with the primary,and bet you dont with the stm secondary either.

 

012 1100 xf still on same belt , should get up grade on clutches.

 

Just wait its coming

 

How would the OSP snubber be trying to tie the engine to the jackshaft?

and fwiw, I will not be running the osp snubber at all

 

He wants the snubber to control the movement between the engine and secondary, what else would the snubber be for.

 

Just as joe said it does not lock the engine to the jackshaft it is just to control movement and CTC under full power. Its just old school stuff and simple thinking its just a bumper don't overthink this stuff guys.

 

I know it doesn't lock the motor together but in his first sentence he says he's trying to control the movement between the primary and secondary which in turn means you're trying to tie the motor and secondary together again. Full circle

 

I'd like to ask another legitimate honest question. This delete kit is supposed to keep the Jack shaft from flexing so let's start with the Jack shaft. If the Jack shaft is flexing and causing the clutches to come out of line that means it's flexing in either the middle or at the secondary. Has anyone ever broken a Jack shaft in the center or clutch side, I'm sorry but I've never seen a picture of it or anyone claim to a broken a Jack shaft in the center or clutch side it's always at the chain case side and that's a whole different issue. But I could be wrong please someone show me there shaft broke in the center or clutch side. If the TCL moving the shaft around is causing it the flex then why hasn't any of the aftermarket shafts that that would carry a dump truck they're so big didn't fix the problem, are you saying the TCL is flexing them also. I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic to anyone, I just want this to make sense.

 

It's not just one faulty component like a jackshaft, its all of them combined with substandard assembly and no way to fix or adjust it unless you use aftermarket. What don't you get? The jackshafts don't break in the middle because it's not the weakest point. They flex till the weak spot gives out. Now people PM me asking advise all the time. I say BEFORE you buy anything you need to start with measuring all points of alignment and go from there. But I do recommend replacement parts that I feel help and keep things aligned regardless of there chassis being straight or not.