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Has anyone switched to a 16 team primary without the roller bearing or is the taper from the 1100 different? I haven't heard of any problems with them..
 

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So I guess the elephant in the room is the new ADAPT system on all 22 full sized cats.
Every thing I read so far is that it will bolt on in place of the Team set and even uses the same belts. I put 2500 miles on my 19' 6000 never had a problem, never had to change a belt, never seen any cracks. Hopefully people get their cracking/exploding clutches replaced under warranty and will get the new adapt going forward. Keeping my fingers crossed because I just ordered a new Tcat, being a beta tester makes me nervous.
 

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Discussion Starter · #143 ·
We all should hope that Cat has taken serious and positive action to end/resolve the cracking problem. I know SOME guys did get clutches warrantied (IF sled was under warranty) but most/many did not. Sometimes it depended on dealer, unfortunately.
As the original poster on this issue, I sincerely HOPE Cat's new ADAPT clutch addresses the problem but they will NEVER admit there was a problem.
I received an update from the Consumer Product Safety Commission back in December, 2020. They responded to me because I was the originator of the complaint. They informed me they had officially served Arctic Cat with a formal complaint regarding cracking of Team primaries. They told me Arctic Cat is required to respond within 120 days.
Again, let's all hope Cat has taken action (i.e. the ADAPT clutch). IF they did, as we have already seen, we all will never know WHY Cat changed to the ADAPT clutch. We all can read the press releases and marketing hype about ADAPT but still we will never know why Cat came out with the new ADAPT clutch. Everyone will have to form their own opinion as to why.
 

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Two reasons.
It will be cheaper. Also, the Team is nice, and works well for average riding. It doesn't fall into the great category. The hard tucked weight profile is a little finicky to tune. The large range of movement also presents structural challenges so the clutch ends up heavier to compensate. The lower edge of the moveable sheave is indented to allow weights to sit tucked. That creates an inconsistent material thickness around the base of the moveable sheave right off the collar. Not a big deal for the average rider. High torque/power setups with belt slip down low create problems. All those heat cycles add up. Belt slip makes them add up faster.
Haven't had a chance to look at the new primary. It will be interesting to see how they are built and set up for tuning.
 

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High torque/power setups with belt slip down low create problems
Yeah, I always thought this is were all the cracking problems on the faces stemmed stemmed from. That hub is bigger to compensate for the bearing and makes for starting in a higher gear. As for the covers cracking..??????...
 

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The cover cracking is an anomaly caused by assembly in most cases. Those little tabs are tight and any little crooked movement will crack them loose. Many of the covers have been installed and removed without diligence when tightening and loosening the cover bolts evenly.
You can test the theory on a new loaded clutch without wear. Remove all but one bolt on the cover. Give the last bolt a half turn and tap the cover. You would be amazed how easy it is to crack those tabs.
 

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The cover cracking is an anomaly caused by assembly in most cases. Those little tabs are tight and any little crooked movement will crack them loose. Many of the covers have been installed and removed without diligence when tightening and loosening the cover bolts evenly.
You can test the theory on a new loaded clutch without wear. Remove all but one bolt on the cover. Give the last bolt a half turn and tap the cover. You would be amazed how easy it is to crack those tabs.
Is there a fix? Can you relieve the points that are tight?
 

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Be super careful when you take off and reinstall the cover. I know it sounds too simple, but do that a couple of times and the problem is gone. Properly torqued covers do not let the towers move enough to break the tabs.
Tips for the first couple of cycles with the cover. . .
Break the bolts loose and do half turns or less on all them. Tap the cover and repeat half turn on all bolts. Once the cover pops loose you can do the normal removal.
The tolerance is super tight on new covers/towers. The cover will hang up compressed when you loosen the bolts. The tabs break when the cover pops and one side stays seated.
Reinstall with the same half turn process once the cover starts touching the towers.
It sounds like extra work, but the problem goes away after a couple times with the cover. It will be loose enough to stop hanging up on the towers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #151 ·
On Team clutches, often the cover is what stops or limits the inward motion of movable sheave. Problem (cracking) happens when the clutch tries to keep shifting (because weights are not all way out yet) but can't because the cover is already against the spider lock nut. There's so much force, it can crack the cover.
 

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I get what you are saying about the cover stopping the shift. That does vary with shimming. Some never will and some hit it early.
It isn't as big a deal as you would think except for a couple factors.
The clutch doesn't slam into the end of the shift unless you blow a belt. End of the shift means the clutch pressure is "just barely" enough to squeeze that last bit. A properly set up clutch should be using belt pressure to hold the last part of the shift.
Warm, soft belts will compress a ton, and will allow the clutch to shift/compress inward further. That may allow more pressure on the cover to "hold" the shift. The other side of having soft belts is why/where? The heat that is making the belt soft is the same heat in the clutch sheaves.
Clutches that run hot are probably causing their own demise. Clutches that build heat down low and blow a belt would really cause their own demise. That's where the cracks have formed and the clutch would slam hard against the end of the shift when a belt kabooms.
 

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Those of us with Team primary clutches should make sure to do close (VERY close) inspection of movable side of clutch. I had my Team clutch replaced under warranty (recall) in 2017. However, 2 weeks ago when I was just inspecting it, I used a mirror to look closely at the movable side and behold, it was cracked in several places. AND, I've seen a few other Team clutches with same kinds of cracks. (This is a '17 ZR9000 Ltd that ran 2 years with a 280HP tune (PEFI) and this year their 320 tune. I have 2 close buddies with '17 TCats w 280 tunes and their clutches are NOT cracked (yet). The first few pics are my cracked Team clutch (taken w a mirror so we can see the movable side) and the last two are of a guy who had his 2020 TCat with 290HP TD tune blow up his primary Team clutch. Take note and inspect your primary clutch. Looks like it hurt bad!!
Those of us with Team primary clutches should make sure to do close (VERY close) inspection of movable side of clutch. I had my Team clutch replaced under warranty (recall) in 2017. However, 2 weeks ago when I was just inspecting it, I used a mirror to look closely at the movable side and behold, it was cracked in several places. AND, I've seen a few other Team clutches with same kinds of cracks. (This is a '17 ZR9000 Ltd that ran 2 years with a 280HP tune (PEFI) and this year their 320 tune. I have 2 close buddies with '17 TCats w 280 tunes and their clutches are NOT cracked (yet). The first few pics are my cracked Team clutch (taken w a mirror so we can see the movable side) and the last two are of a guy who had his 2020 TCat with 290HP TD tune blow up his primary Team clutch. Take note and inspect your primary clutch. Looks like it hurt bad!!
I was a victim of this on Sunday. I was cruising along at about 60, and BOOM--felt like someone shot me in the foot. It blew my side panel off and destroyed my fuse box. I haven't had time to fully assess the damage to the machine as I've been dealing with the seven broken bones in my left foot. This happened on a 2017 ZR5000 LXR 137--not on the recall list, I see. Any advice you have on how to approach Arctic Cat for reparations would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #155 ·
Umbadog,
I am sorry to hear of your incident and your serious injuries. I hope over time, your foot will heal.
I would suggest you document EVERYTHING about this incident. Where, when, conditions, etc. Obviously sled miles, maintenance records, etc, etc. Take lots of pictures! Get statements from any witnesses. Keep detailed records of your medical treatment.
Then, I would contact the Consumer Product Safety Commission (Public Incident Reporting - SaferProducts). Submit an official complaint with all your documentation. Then, I would contact Arctic Cat directly (218) 681-9851; Customer Care | Arctic Cat) and let them know what happened and that you have contacted the CPSC. It will take some time to get action but be persistent. Follow up. It took almost 6 mos. for me to hear back from CPSC. They informed me in Dec. 2020 that they had submitted an official complaint to Arctic Cat that will require AC to respond within 120 days (4 mos). I have not heard anything yet but I am confident I will get an update soon.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery!
 

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WOW! I read this entire post. I've set up many turbo sleds clutching. And added lots of power to the engine at launch.
A primary clutch has very little belt contact area at launch, so it can easily slip if power is too much. It's much worse if gearing is increased for higher top speeds. If weights are tucked also, it really gets bad. These new no-deflection primaries and secondaries are making belt grip worse. All of this was apparently done to reduce upshift load and allow faster boost response before hard shifting. I've tried it all.
So, I always float the secondary so belt is perfectly lined up in primary at launch. I doubt that Cat does this. Then, I increase secondary spring tension to help increase belt tension at launch. A smaller helix start angle helps as well. Just my 2 cents.
 

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This is on a female driven stock 2020 Hardcore, 870 miles on clutch.
2119886

2119887
 

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major slippage and heat.......also looks like alignment may be off, there is only belt meat on one face, unless i just cant see it on the the other side????
 

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I have 1360 miles on original team primary with belt idler system. 1000 plus miles running stage 3 pefi. So far the clutch looks good with no sign of cracking. Secondary is converted to torsional and belt is xs827. I don't see belt skid marks on either clutch. Maybe it gets a bit of it when I load it on trailer. Sleds a 19 9000 sno pro.
 

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where did this happen?
Cambridge, NH
Umbadog,
I am sorry to hear of your incident and your serious injuries. I hope over time, your foot will heal.
I would suggest you document EVERYTHING about this incident. Where, when, conditions, etc. Obviously sled miles, maintenance records, etc, etc. Take lots of pictures! Get statements from any witnesses. Keep detailed records of your medical treatment.
Then, I would contact the Consumer Product Safety Commission (Public Incident Reporting - SaferProducts). Submit an official complaint with all your documentation. Then, I would contact Arctic Cat directly (218) 681-9851; Customer Care | Arctic Cat) and let them know what happened and that you have contacted the CPSC. It will take some time to get action but be persistent. Follow up. It took almost 6 mos. for me to hear back from CPSC. They informed me in Dec. 2020 that they had submitted an official complaint to Arctic Cat that will require AC to respond within 120 days (4 mos). I have not heard anything yet but I am confident I will get an update soon.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery!
Thanks!
 
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