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Textron would not "bankrupt" the Arctic Cat snowmobile business division, they would just either sell it (Yamaha is probably the only potential buyer) or shut it down and sell the saleable assets (which would probably be real estate, anything in the patent portfolio, spare parts, and a few machine tools, etc.). And if the snowmobile business division is loosing money, they would do one of these soon. MBA 101 is to never consider "sunk costs" this means if you are loosing money or don't have a path of profitability in 36 months or less, than get rid of it or shut it down, no matter what the initial investment was.
BRP shut down their outboard motor division. That is just a piece of what bombardier owns. So why wouldn’t textron shut down something that’s not prospering for a them? It’s a different world out there today. I’m not a cat fan but I don’t want to see them go
 

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BRP has signed an agreement with Merc Marine to tide them over until they start producing new marine motor technology. They have had two motor technology projects on the go for a while now. They are code named Project Ghost and Project M. They have acquired a few new boat manufacturers to concentrate on fishing and family oriented pontoon boats. Rumour has it that we will soon see multi cylinder light weight four stroke engines in the marine sector. They are a very smart company and line up many interchangeable interior parts that can be adapted to different engines. Think the Ace lineup of engines. They are using the same cylinders, pistons, electronics, etc in several different engines. The same will happen with their new marine engines.
 

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BRP has signed an agreement with Merc Marine to tide them over until they start producing new marine motor technology. They have had two motor technology projects on the go for a while now. They are code named Project Ghost and Project M. They have acquired a few new boat manufacturers to concentrate on fishing and family oriented pontoon boats. Rumour has it that we will soon see multi cylinder light weight four stroke engines in the marine sector. They are a very smart company and line up many interchangeable interior parts that can be adapted to different engines. Think the Ace lineup of engines. They are using the same cylinders, pistons, electronics, etc in several different engines. The same will happen with their new marine engines.
Good possible, but I think since they called up their most opposite competitor (Mercury Outboards) to pick up the slack they are done making outboards. They are emptying out that plant to the bare walls. I have been to the Sturtevant plant and the rumor is they will just make it a distribution center. There are a lot of distribution centers in that corporate park. Ironically, Yamaha's was not too far away in Pleasant Prairie
 

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They won’t make the new stuff in any old plants except possibly tier own. The two projects are electric and jet boat engines. Two totally different technologies. I can see them build or revamp an existing plant but a lot of the compotent s will be farmed out and then everything assembled in North America.
 

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BRP shut down their outboard motor division. That is just a piece of what bombardier owns. So why wouldn’t textron shut down something that’s not prospering for a them? It’s a different world out there today. I’m not a cat fan but I don’t want to see them go.
Textron MAY do that IF the Arctic Cat Snowmobile Division was not profitable. Either the Arctic Cat snowmobile division is currently profitable for Textron or soon will be profitable (doubtful under current economic conditions) .... otherwise they will sell or liquidate the whole division.

I personally want to see Arctic Cat snowmobiles stay in business in the USA (they are an iconic brand with a rich history); and I really think our hobby needs a "value" leader and I think Cat is poised to be that. However, I can envision several undesired scenarios if the snowmobile division is or becomes unprofitable for Textron:

  • Sell the business to Yamaha, dissolve the brand, and Yamaha keeps manufacturing operations in Thief River Falls
  • Sell the business to the Russians, transfer manufacturing operations to Russia, and keep product development in Thief River Falls
  • Dissolve and liquidate the business and assets
Again, I hope none of these 3 scenarios happen.
 

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Interesting numbers... Maybe we were all out to lunch with what we believed was a slow season for new machine sales.


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I stated this before but my dealer - sells Doo, Poo and Yamacat - had very strong spring order volume compared to last year. I think many are underestimating the fact that people are still buying toys even with the economic situation. Most people I speak with during the course of work believe this is temporary and as such are pretty much spending just like they always have. Granted, there are a lot of people out of work but I wonder if the greatest number of those are from the food service industry, travel and hospitality industry. Yes, it's a lot of people but are they the primary group that buys and rides new sleds? I have no idea but think that may have a lot to do with it.
 

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(copying from other thread)

There are lots of reasons Cat has had trouble but to me it just comes down to size and handling of the future outlook when they had the chance. As big as they got/sales they had during the mid 2000's peak after the Firecats, compared to BRP and Polaris they were still very small, but to have 25%-40% of sled sales/market for how small they were was pretty incredible.
This is when Cat needed to expand aggressively, and they did not.
IMO this success this did not sit well with Polaris and Ski-Doo especially.
I admire the attempt with the Twin Spar to make the best riding sled on the market with the IRP, but they didn't get that sled right/appealing until 2010 and by then Brp and Polaris had made significant strides in their chassis.
In short, Cat ate their money, never expanded and actually lost footing in the sled market with the Twin Spars in as little as 2-3 years.

Thats about the time, that, in my humble opinion, Doo and Polaris got serious about sledding again, but the key factor here, is, they didn't lose sight of the Powersport business in general, as UTV's and newer ATV's started becoming popular, Cat didn't show up to the party until way too late, or midnight, when the clock has already struck. Even Yamaha had been building SxS's since the Rhino. And now Can-Am is one of the most popular brands.
Yamaha, Polaris and Ski-Doo/Can-Am/Sea-Doo/Bombardier are not the size they are today because of a few sleds, its the overall footprint, availability and diversity of their brand and products, support and nomenclature (Cat calling things Textron was a HUGE mistake, people don't know what the fuck Textron is) that holds them up.
Cat lost that marketing edge, Polaris earned stars for their Ranger and Sportsman, and Cat doesn't have the resources to cover mistakes or recalls like the competition. There was a time when folks would risk the durability for speed, and Cat has always had the fastest sled, and still does using Yammy's 998..but thats not enough anymore.
Anyways, in total, with poor or no marketing, poor investments, a chassis flop and ugly sled, being behind on UTV's and other products, Cat set themselves up for failure.
Which is too bad, because I have a riding buddy who went from a 2016 Pro-S to a 2020 RIOT and he loves it.
 

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(copying from other thread)

There are lots of reasons Cat has had trouble but to me it just comes down to size and handling of the future outlook when they had the chance. As big as they got/sales they had during the mid 2000's peak after the Firecats, compared to BRP and Polaris they were still very small, but to have 25%-40% of sled sales/market for how small they were was pretty incredible.
This is when Cat needed to expand aggressively, and they did not.
IMO this success this did not sit well with Polaris and Ski-Doo especially.
I admire the attempt with the Twin Spar to make the best riding sled on the market with the IRP, but they didn't get that sled right/appealing until 2010 and by then Brp and Polaris had made significant strides in their chassis.
In short, Cat ate their money, never expanded and actually lost footing in the sled market with the Twin Spars in as little as 2-3 years.

Thats about the time, that, in my humble opinion, Doo and Polaris got serious about sledding again, but the key factor here, is, they didn't lose sight of the Powersport business in general, as UTV's and newer ATV's started becoming popular, Cat didn't show up to the party until way too late, or midnight, when the clock has already struck. Even Yamaha had been building SxS's since the Rhino. And now Can-Am is one of the most popular brands.
Yamaha, Polaris and Ski-Doo/Can-Am/Sea-Doo/Bombardier are not the size they are today because of a few sleds, its the overall footprint, availability and diversity of their brand and products, support and nomenclature (Cat calling things Textron was a HUGE mistake, people don't know what the fuck Textron is) that holds them up.
Cat lost that marketing edge, Polaris earned stars for their Ranger and Sportsman, and Cat doesn't have the resources to cover mistakes or recalls like the competition. There was a time when folks would risk the durability for speed, and Cat has always had the fastest sled, and still does using Yammy's 998..but thats not enough anymore.
Anyways, in total, with poor or no marketing, poor investments, a chassis flop and ugly sled, being behind on UTV's and other products, Cat set themselves up for failure.
Which is too bad, because I have a riding buddy who went from a 2016 Pro-S to a 2020 RIOT and he loves it.
Very well stated!
 

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BRP shut down their outboard motor division. That is just a piece of what bombardier owns. So why wouldn’t textron shut down something that’s not prospering for a them? It’s a different world out there today. I’m not a cat fan but I don’t want to see them go

900 ace outboard?
 

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(copying from other thread)

There are lots of reasons Cat has had trouble but to me it just comes down to size and handling of the future outlook when they had the chance. As big as they got/sales they had during the mid 2000's peak after the Firecats, compared to BRP and Polaris they were still very small, but to have 25%-40% of sled sales/market for how small they were was pretty incredible.
This is when Cat needed to expand aggressively, and they did not.
IMO this success this did not sit well with Polaris and Ski-Doo especially.
I admire the attempt with the Twin Spar to make the best riding sled on the market with the IRP, but they didn't get that sled right/appealing until 2010 and by then Brp and Polaris had made significant strides in their chassis.
In short, Cat ate their money, never expanded and actually lost footing in the sled market with the Twin Spars in as little as 2-3 years.

Thats about the time, that, in my humble opinion, Doo and Polaris got serious about sledding again, but the key factor here, is, they didn't lose sight of the Powersport business in general, as UTV's and newer ATV's started becoming popular, Cat didn't show up to the party until way too late, or midnight, when the clock has already struck. Even Yamaha had been building SxS's since the Rhino. And now Can-Am is one of the most popular brands.
Yamaha, Polaris and Ski-Doo/Can-Am/Sea-Doo/Bombardier are not the size they are today because of a few sleds, its the overall footprint, availability and diversity of their brand and products, support and nomenclature (Cat calling things Textron was a HUGE mistake, people don't know what the fuck Textron is) that holds them up.
Cat lost that marketing edge, Polaris earned stars for their Ranger and Sportsman, and Cat doesn't have the resources to cover mistakes or recalls like the competition. There was a time when folks would risk the durability for speed, and Cat has always had the fastest sled, and still does using Yammy's 998..but thats not enough anymore.
Anyways, in total, with poor or no marketing, poor investments, a chassis flop and ugly sled, being behind on UTV's and other products, Cat set themselves up for failure.
Which is too bad, because I have a riding buddy who went from a 2016 Pro-S to a 2020 RIOT and he loves it.
Agree 100% with this. I for one remember the anticipation of the 2007 Cats, at the time I was die hard cat, could not wait to see how they were going to build on the Firecat. Then the twin spar bomb was dropped, was like a punch in the gut. So disappointed, cat lost me at that point and wasn't until 2017 until I tried them again with the 998t powered ZR9k. Was a great sled for me except hard on fuel. But like mentioned there needs to be more than top end speed. Hopefully cat can get a more powerful 600-650 and an 850 to go to war with these other guys. As well as step up the quality game (which I feel has been making strides since 2017). No matter how you feel about cat, they are important to us all in the world of snowmobiling, we need them to survive.
 

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900 ace outboard?
no CVT on an outboard, I'd think a (in comparison), high strung sled engine would be seriously lacking the neccessary low end grunt..
 

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It could be tuned for additional low end torque, they use it in their PWC.

Bob
 
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Polaris had me for ten years until they thought changing stickers year after year meant they could keep calling it a new sled. Cat had me for the next ten until the twin spar. Nothing more embarrassing than being on a 600 that only does 70mph and uses twice the gas of every other sled in the group. Ski Doo had me for the next ten. Nothing bad to say. Tried the new Polaris XC 850 this season and all I can say is wow. Bad on gas and oil, but if that is the price of a smile the whole ride, I’ll gladly pay it. All manufacturers stumble but I’d hate to see any go under.
 
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