We've seen lots of reports of Firecats just stalling out suddenly and then restarting. The likely answer to this involves the "smart valves". This was news to me, but the smart valves have a membrane that filters out water and dirt, but also will filter out oil particles (premix). If you are running premix in the first tank and the ratio approaches 50:1 the oil will actually clog the smart valve membranes and stop the engine. Also, this year both smart valves are un-vented, and may shut off the fuel supply if they become uncovered. So, if you are bouncing along with a 1/4 tank of premix and the engine suddenly quits on you and then restarts a few minutes later, chances are the smart valves were the cause.
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bosssho Posted: Dec 3 2002, 06:19 PM
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Rob this is exactly what happened to me twice...on my first full tank with the premix still working through, and as I said in my "F7 Meltdown" Thread it was the coolant issue.
Funny how what you posted and what my dealer was told is already conflicting...where did you get your info for your "Burping your baby" thread, because my dealer got that as he was talking to their Tech support.
I just want to know if I should print out your version and bring it over to them...I want to take all the excuses away this next time.
Thanks again for helping us all help ourselves.
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rob Posted: Dec 3 2002, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (bosssho @ Dec 3 2002, 07:19 PM)
Rob this is exactly what happened to me twice...on my first full tank with the premix still working through, and as I said in my "F7 Meltdown" Thread it was the coolant issue.
Funny how what you posted and what my dealer was told is already conflicting...where did you get your info for your "Burping your baby" thread, because my dealer got that as he was talking to their Tech support.
I just want to know if I should print out your version and bring it over to them...I want to take all the excuses away this next time.
Thanks again for helping us all help ourselves.
Info comes directly from Cat, not a tech. A new bulletin on bleeding will be coming to the dealers very soon. The bleeding procedure is being worked up by GLS and others in engineering. The wording in my post is mine, from notes from a phone conversation. You are welcome to print it out and bring it in but the wording may be different than the final version. The 41" was very specific, as was the tilting to the PTO side while running and elevated.
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BSOUV Posted: Dec 3 2002, 07:08 PM
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OK- So maybe I did'nt run out of gas in my yard.This sounds more like what happened.The tank was awful low but not dry.It was pre-mix and at the bottom of tank.That's why it started right back up after adding more fuel!
Sorry for misleading anybody on the running out of gas issue
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ZRT800 Posted: Dec 3 2002, 10:45 PM
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So what's the fix? Just put up with it until the first tank is done, then it'll be fine with straight gas? My buddy's F7 SP is doing this. But he's running a full tank of premix.
Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if he screwed up his premix & put in too much oil, since you said "approaching 50:1". Any ideas?
Assume that he mixed it correct at 100:1, full tank, any ideas why his smart valve would screw up? First ride it shut down after about 2 miles. Wouldn't start, he took it to the dealer, they reached in, pulled out the valve, flipped it around (said it was in upside down), then the sled started. His next ride it happened a couple times. But this time, he just fished it out, shook it, then dropped it back in. Sled started.
His sled is the only one that I've heard of having this problem until I saw this thread. Any ideas?
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rob Posted: Dec 3 2002, 11:07 PM
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QUOTE (ZRT800 @ Dec 3 2002, 11:45 PM)
So what's the fix? Just put up with it until the first tank is done, then it'll be fine with straight gas? My buddy's F7 SP is doing this. But he's running a full tank of premix.
Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if he screwed up his premix & put in too much oil, since you said "approaching 50:1". Any ideas?
Assume that he mixed it correct at 100:1, full tank, any ideas why his smart valve would screw up? First ride it shut down after about 2 miles. Wouldn't start, he took it to the dealer, they reached in, pulled out the valve, flipped it around (said it was in upside down), then the sled started. His next ride it happened a couple times. But this time, he just fished it out, shook it, then dropped it back in. Sled started.
His sled is the only one that I've heard of having this problem until I saw this thread. Any ideas?
I think this happens a lot more than we think and can account for a lot of the weird problems out there.. The fix is to dilute the mix with more gas if the premix is too rich. Also, it was suggested to REVERSE the fuel pump leads, making the pump go backward and blow back anything clogging the smart valves.. Just a suggestion, mind you.
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bosssho Posted: Dec 3 2002, 06:19 PM
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Rob this is exactly what happened to me twice...on my first full tank with the premix still working through, and as I said in my "F7 Meltdown" Thread it was the coolant issue.
Funny how what you posted and what my dealer was told is already conflicting...where did you get your info for your "Burping your baby" thread, because my dealer got that as he was talking to their Tech support.
I just want to know if I should print out your version and bring it over to them...I want to take all the excuses away this next time.
Thanks again for helping us all help ourselves.
Report this post
rob Posted: Dec 3 2002, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (bosssho @ Dec 3 2002, 07:19 PM)
Rob this is exactly what happened to me twice...on my first full tank with the premix still working through, and as I said in my "F7 Meltdown" Thread it was the coolant issue.
Funny how what you posted and what my dealer was told is already conflicting...where did you get your info for your "Burping your baby" thread, because my dealer got that as he was talking to their Tech support.
I just want to know if I should print out your version and bring it over to them...I want to take all the excuses away this next time.
Thanks again for helping us all help ourselves.
Info comes directly from Cat, not a tech. A new bulletin on bleeding will be coming to the dealers very soon. The bleeding procedure is being worked up by GLS and others in engineering. The wording in my post is mine, from notes from a phone conversation. You are welcome to print it out and bring it in but the wording may be different than the final version. The 41" was very specific, as was the tilting to the PTO side while running and elevated.
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BSOUV Posted: Dec 3 2002, 07:08 PM
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Group: Members
Posts: 45
Member No.: 84
Joined: 5-November 02
OK- So maybe I did'nt run out of gas in my yard.This sounds more like what happened.The tank was awful low but not dry.It was pre-mix and at the bottom of tank.That's why it started right back up after adding more fuel!
Sorry for misleading anybody on the running out of gas issue
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ZRT800 Posted: Dec 3 2002, 10:45 PM
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So what's the fix? Just put up with it until the first tank is done, then it'll be fine with straight gas? My buddy's F7 SP is doing this. But he's running a full tank of premix.
Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if he screwed up his premix & put in too much oil, since you said "approaching 50:1". Any ideas?
Assume that he mixed it correct at 100:1, full tank, any ideas why his smart valve would screw up? First ride it shut down after about 2 miles. Wouldn't start, he took it to the dealer, they reached in, pulled out the valve, flipped it around (said it was in upside down), then the sled started. His next ride it happened a couple times. But this time, he just fished it out, shook it, then dropped it back in. Sled started.
His sled is the only one that I've heard of having this problem until I saw this thread. Any ideas?
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rob Posted: Dec 3 2002, 11:07 PM
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Joined: 4-November 02
QUOTE (ZRT800 @ Dec 3 2002, 11:45 PM)
So what's the fix? Just put up with it until the first tank is done, then it'll be fine with straight gas? My buddy's F7 SP is doing this. But he's running a full tank of premix.
Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if he screwed up his premix & put in too much oil, since you said "approaching 50:1". Any ideas?
Assume that he mixed it correct at 100:1, full tank, any ideas why his smart valve would screw up? First ride it shut down after about 2 miles. Wouldn't start, he took it to the dealer, they reached in, pulled out the valve, flipped it around (said it was in upside down), then the sled started. His next ride it happened a couple times. But this time, he just fished it out, shook it, then dropped it back in. Sled started.
His sled is the only one that I've heard of having this problem until I saw this thread. Any ideas?
I think this happens a lot more than we think and can account for a lot of the weird problems out there.. The fix is to dilute the mix with more gas if the premix is too rich. Also, it was suggested to REVERSE the fuel pump leads, making the pump go backward and blow back anything clogging the smart valves.. Just a suggestion, mind you.
