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how many miles do you have on this sled now?? over 2000??

while your at it check all your idler wheels/bearings cuz those things never last...

i hope you have a garage to work on this thing...

i would take the skid frame out and go over it, take off the track, replace the drive shaft bearings, inspect everything,

remove the belt and spin the jackshaft and listen for a bad bearing... obviously its gotta be quiet so you can hear...

or just go ahead and replace those anyway...

remove the primary and secondary, dissassemble and inspect, replace any rollers or bushings that look worn...

do you ever blow belts? check alignment first etc... and when you reassemble...

put it all back together and see what happens... if it isnt fixed put it up for sale... :doh:

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Originally posted by DJSF7@Oct 19 2005, 09:14 PM
Guys,

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

For those that continue to say "It's the track" - I can see the track costing me as much as 5 MPH on the very top end but not 15 or more.  I have heard about plenty of 03s, some 04's and some 05's with the 1 3/8" track easily hitting speeds around 110 on radar and GPS.

As far as the leakdown and compression tests go, I have not yet been able to get either of these done reliably.  With almost 145HP, I doubt there's much I can do to improve on the perfomance of the engine.

So, I'm down to clutching, gearing or some other drivetrain related issue.  It just sucks that the season is so short and the nearest decent place for me to ride and test is about 2 1/2 hours away! :banghead:  :banghead:
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ITS THE BELT,IF U USE A 020 IT WILL ADD 6MPH TO TOP END.
THE 031 IS TOOO HARD AND WILL SLIP.
4 F7S IN OUR GROUP SWITCH TO 020 BELT AND WE ALL GAINED ALOT OF MPH.
ALSO USE THE DD GREY IN SEC INSTEAD OF GREEN. DAN WILL ALSO TELL U THIS, AS HIS CLUTCH KIT WILL WORK WITH BOTH SPRINGS AND BELTS.{WITH MINOR TWEAKING} :div20:
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Originally posted by HOUGH@Oct 19 2005, 08:31 PM
how many miles do you have on this sled now?? over 2000?? 

while your at it check all your idler wheels/bearings cuz those things never last...

i hope you have a garage to work on this thing...

i would take the skid frame out and go over it, take off the track, replace the drive shaft bearings, inspect everything,

remove the belt and spin the jackshaft and listen for a bad bearing...  obviously its gotta be quiet so you can hear...

or just go ahead and replace those anyway...

remove the primary and secondary, dissassemble and inspect, replace any rollers or bushings that look worn... 

do you ever blow belts?  check alignment first etc...  and when you reassemble...

put it all back together and see what happens...  if it isnt fixed put it up for sale...  :doh:

:fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:  :fluffy:
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All good ideas and some are on my list of things to check. Luckily, I do have a decent garage and a sled lift.

In response to your suggestions - the sled has performed exactly the same since day one, mile one and now it has about 2600 miles on it. So whatever's wrong, has been wrong since new.

I had the skid out of it before last season and everything checked out good then. The dealer replaced one or both bearings in the chaincase because I had a small leak. They also replaced the secondary clutch to rule out it being the cause of a small vibration I had (and still have).

The primary is definitely shifting all the way out. Not sure about the secondary though.

I never blew a belt. In fact, I'm still on my original belt. I did try another belt for a couple of hundred miles last season with no noticeable change in performance.

Here's the kicker - I have two friends with the exact same sleds that perform almost identically to mine (but they don't have the vibration that I have). None of us has ever seen more than high 90's on the speedos and they all feel about the same. So, I seriously doubt I have a particular part that is bad. I think it's going to be more related to something in the setup and the changes that were made from the 03's to the 04's including things like drivers, clutching and gearing, suspension setup etc.

I'd love to know if there's anyone on this site that has a 04 F7 EFI SP with the 1 3/8" track that has ever honestly seen 105mph or better on their speedo or GPS and is 100% happy with the performance of their sled.

Selling the sled and getting something else really isn't an option right now. I really want to figure this out because I see it as a challenge and know that when I do get it right, I'm going to be one happy camper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Originally posted by tooofastf7tr@Oct 19 2005, 08:40 PM
ITS THE BELT,IF U USE A 020 IT WILL ADD 6MPH TO TOP END.
THE 031 IS TOOO HARD AND WILL SLIP.
4 F7S IN OUR GROUP SWITCH TO 020 BELT AND WE ALL GAINED ALOT OF MPH.
ALSO USE THE DD GREY IN SEC INSTEAD OF GREEN. DAN WILL ALSO TELL U THIS, AS HIS CLUTCH KIT WILL WORK WITH BOTH SPRINGS AND BELTS.{WITH MINOR TWEAKING} :div20:
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This is one direction I'm definitely going to try. It looks like my belt may be slipping at the top of the primary because I have a nice black line right at the very top. I was planning on talking to Dan about trying the 020 belt and a different spring in the secondary. Thanks for confirming what I had heard and what I was thinking! :div20:
 

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i dont agree with the belt comment. I run the 031 belt and have hit 119.8 on radar, and can consistantly run high teens all day(on ice of course). i do however have a friend with a 03 f7 sp with the 1.375 track. he had many of the common parts that i did( clutch, reeds, pipe, etc...) as well as porting from dd, where as my motor was not touched. I have the 1" track. he would jump me out of the hole for like 500 ft, and then i would go right by him every time. i finally convinced him to switch the track to the 1" to see what would happen, and he consistantly pulls me by 2-3 sled lengths no matter the distance now. not sayingit will definately be the fix for your sled, but it definately wont slow u down. worth a try to see what happens, and u wont be scratching your head trying to tear apart your sled to take stabs in the dark at whats the matter. but, if u dont care about lake racing, save yourself the headache and leave it alone. 145 horse at least will get up to 90 faster than most
 

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Originally posted by DJSF7@Oct 19 2005, 08:45 PM
All good ideas and some are on my list of things to check.  Luckily, I do have a decent garage and a sled lift.

In response to your suggestions - the sled has performed exactly the same since day one, mile one and now it has about 2600 miles on it.  So whatever's wrong, has been wrong since new.

I had the skid out of it before last season and everything checked out good then.  The dealer replaced one or both bearings in the chaincase because I had a small leak.  They also replaced the secondary clutch to rule out it being the cause of a small vibration I had (and still have).

The primary is definitely shifting all the way out.  Not sure about the secondary though.

I never blew a belt.  In fact, I'm still on my original belt.  I did try another belt for a couple of hundred miles last season with no noticeable change in performance.

Here's the kicker - I have two friends with the exact same sleds that perform almost identically to mine (but they don't have the vibration that I have).  None of us has ever seen more than high 90's on the speedos and they all feel about the same.  So, I seriously doubt I have a particular part that is bad.  I think it's going to be more related to something in the setup and the changes that were made from the 03's to the 04's including things like drivers, clutching and gearing, suspension setup etc.

I'd love to know if there's anyone on this site that has a 04 F7 EFI SP with the 1 3/8" track that has ever honestly seen 105mph or better on their speedo or GPS and is 100% happy with the performance of their sled.

Selling the sled and getting something else really isn't an option right now.  I really want to figure this out because I see it as a challenge and know that when I do get it right, I'm going to be one happy camper.
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DJS,

I have a 04 SP/EFI/1.375 track. I never seen over 98mph the first season. The second season(last winter)was almost the same. Then I got out on a lake one day(my first lake experience). The lake was smooth and hard packed. My first wide open pull hit 101mph. Then I found this ice covered groove in the center of the lake that some one purposely groomed there. When I ran the groove it hit 107. This was all backed by GPS which was dead on with my speedo.

After that day I could never hit above 98 again in the long fields around here.

Its all in snow conditions. But I do think the std. gear will help since the sp gearing is only suposed to go 108 according to the gear/rpm charts.
 

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you and your buddies all got your sleds from the same dealer?? if so then a small group of bad parts could have made it to your dealer... :dunno:

you might be able to isolate your vibration by taking the belt, track, and chain off and spinning the shafts independently, listening and feeling for anything inconsistent...

your track might even have a defect with the driver lugs, if the spacing is off a hair... swapping to another track might be worth a try... :dunno:
 

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Originally posted by TNT@Oct 19 2005, 09:00 PM
DJS,

I have a 04 SP/EFI/1.375 track. I never seen over 98mph the first season. The second season(last winter)was almost the same. Then I got out on a lake one day(my first lake experience). The lake was smooth and hard packed. My first wide open pull hit 101mph. Then I found this ice covered groove in the center of the lake that some one purposely groomed there. When I ran the groove it hit 107. This was all backed by GPS which was dead on with my speedo.

After that day I could never hit above 98 again in the long fields around here.

Its all in snow conditions. But I do think the std. gear will help since the sp gearing is only suposed to go 108 according to the gear/rpm charts.
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A few more things,

I'm 325lbs :Wow1: and my sled has a ODS kit,2 deg key,fuel restrictor. It made 143hp at Jims last summer.

My wieght alone has a big impact on overall performance.
 

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question for u guys who are unhappy with your top end... are u guys seeing these speeds in snow covered fields or hard packed trails or on ice??? i run high teens on ice with the 1" track. have a few buddies with 03 and 04 sp's with the 1.375, and i think the highest they got to was around 110-112 on ice of course. on snow or hardpack its a big difference. i can only see speeds ranging from 95-105 depending on how much snow is on the lake or trail and how loose it is. just curious what kind of conditions u were trying these top speed runs in, cuz it does make a big difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Originally posted by Rotax!@Oct 20 2005, 02:03 PM
I never seen a stock 04 make that much power.  All the stock 04's that I have seen are within 132-135hp.
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Since the ECU has been reprogrammed by AC with the 05 program, it's technically not a stock 04 but there has been nothing else done to the motor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Originally posted by smanfirecat@Oct 20 2005, 03:44 PM
question for u guys who are unhappy with your top end...  are u guys seeing these speeds in snow covered fields or hard packed trails or on ice???  i run high teens on ice with the 1" track.  have a few buddies with 03 and 04 sp's with the 1.375, and i think the highest they got to was around 110-112 on ice of course.  on snow or hardpack its a big difference.  i can only see speeds ranging from 95-105 depending on how much snow is on the lake or trail and how loose it is.  just curious what kind of conditions u were trying these top speed runs in, cuz it does make a big difference.
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I hear ya about the conditions having a big effect on top end speeds but in 2 full seasons now with almost 2700 miles on the sled, I've ridden just about every possible condition - from very hard packed trails (on very cold days) to nearly glare ice. In every situation, the sled feels like it pulls fairly well up to about 80 or so then it just stops pulling and slowly creeps to 90-95. Once I finally see 95, getting to 97-98 requires like another 1/4 mile!

When a bone stock 600 rev can stay right with me on a nice, hard packed lake, there's definitely something wrong. :banghead:
 

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I have a stock 04 f7 carb snow pro with the 1.375 track and my top speed last year on the lake was 108. It was -30 and the lake was hard packed. Its the fastest my sled has gone. It is now getting rejetted to 460's. 470's were too fat. My 2 cents :beerchug:
 

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I see now that you changed the belt for a few hundred miles, sorry I blew up.....but it's probably still time for a new one. I doubt that clutch alignment is the answer either, because if it was, your belt wouldn't have lasted 2700 miles. I have the 1 3/8 track on an 03 and run 112 on hard pack (almost ice) and less than 100 on snow. Check your brakes......as stated above. mark your secondary with a marker and see if the belt is going all the way down the sheave.....I run 23/40 on my 10 tooth, and that is a 1.74 ratio, and still run these numbers. good luck.
 

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Originally posted by D.RZR900@Oct 19 2005, 07:29 PM
I had my 03 dynoed and had real good numbers but when I was running my sled on the grass I just didnt have anything on the top end and my gearing was right on I did a compression check and it was good but when I did a leakdown test it wasnt good I rebuild the sled and it took care of all my problems.  I would start with the cheapest items then work towards the costly items Compression check and leakdown tests are cheap.
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I agree with this , best to check thouroghly and start withthe cheapest and easiest things first

Originally posted by motorsport17@Oct 19 2005, 07:47 PM
It's the track! You will never go fast with that 1.375 track.
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This is completely false, I persoanlly have been able to get High teens 119.2 on a 1.375 stock 03 and 05 carb SP to 117 all day long.....

Originally posted by azracing@Oct 19 2005, 08:00 PM
If you have a friend that has a 2003 F7, try his clutches on your sled and see what you get. I have a friend with a 2004 standard that did the same thing, we switched both clutches and his sled was faster than mine. That was with my clutching on his sled! Can't hurt anything to try it once.
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This is what I do first, very easy and a controlled expirement, as 1 part at a time.

It is always something simple you just have to look closely, My first place would be clutches and see if they are shifting all the way out, or if they can.........
 

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don't '03 crank shafts have a smaller diameter(PTO end) than '04's,so the clutches aren't interchangable??
 
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