As a moderator here and a landowner I'm going to reply.

1. Our property is not lived on. That creates more problems IMO since you can't monitor the situation if you let others use it. That also creates the opportunity for people to abuse you and your neighbors. I would not let it be used for a trail unless someone would be living next to it and would watch the situation and advise me.
2. Liability due to #1 idiots (and it happens believe me...)
3. Hunting isn't an issue just because that time of year for snowmobiling isn't an issue. Quads on the other hand are a issue just due to the lawless nature deserved reputation they have.
4. If this is just for snowmobiling then property can be gated for the rest of the year safely. If this question is about year round use then IMO it's not happening. People end up thinking they have the "right" to be on your property then. Kinda like public lands. We have had issues with even family members thinking this. And no one will call you to say "hey can I hunt this year" or "how is it going steve?" Nothing, no communication at all and it sucks since we pay for everything and they do nothing to contribute. If anything that's probably the biggest beef landowners have with other users of their land. No one bothers to ask if it's ok and no one bothers to ask if they need any help (financially or physically).

Steve landowner hat on

 

Great post! I'll be interested to see what other's have to say on this topic as well.

My wife and I own a cabin in Northern WI. Due to some changes with some land near ours we were approached approximately 5 years ago by a member of the snowmobile club to see if they could re-route the trail through our property. I am an avid snowmobiler; however, my wife... not so much. She raised many of the same questions you are asking now.

Here is what we found/did. Please note that our land is in WI and it appears that your land is in MI so that may change things a little.

The first things we did was to contact our insurance agent to ask about liability. We were told (both by the club and by our insurance agent) that unless we do something criminally negligent (put up barbed wire across the trail or some equally horrible thing) we could not be held responsible (liable) for something happening to a sledder on our property.

At the time we also had 2 children (we now have 4) so the safety of our children was very important as well. The proposed trail is only about 100 yards away from our cabin and bunkhouse and very close to our garage so the safety of our kids was certainly a factor. The snowmobile club realized this an put up orange safety flags to make sure that the sledders stayed on the marked trail and also put up signs as you entered our property from either direction.

In the end (as you may have guessed) we granted easement of the trail through our property. That was approximately 5 years ago and we feel very fortunate and are very happy that we have had NO issues with it.

It does help that the trail is not a major corridor and generally only gets traveled on from 7:00am to 7:00pm. It also helps that we are only up there occasionally on the weekends. If this were our full time residence we may look at it a bit differently.

Before granting easement we did also ask the neighbor that is closest to the trail their thoughts as well as they were ok with it too.

You bring up a lot of valid questions. We had the same ones 5 years ago...hope this helps!

 

junky, I can't imagine why anyone would bash you for your post. You have total viable concerns.

 

Absolutely and I would be asking the same questions if I were in his shoes.:bc2:

 

My first concerns are the health and safety of my children using our property with other riders.
My kids are as old as you, lol. so i wouldnt have this problem.

My second is liability
Doesnt the clubs/state pay insurance for this?

My third is trespassers both on and off trail throughout the year
This is definately a given, it happens.
the litter would bother me the most.

hunting (signing/brushing)
Deer hunting, shouldnt have to worry about sleds this time.(usually)
Rabbit, small game, then you have an issue

My fifth is the responsibility and respect of my neighbors property
Have you talked with him/her? definately post it, wont stop idiots, but will help in
case.

My sixth is noise at all hours of the night
You as a snowmobiler can answer this one, you would have to decide your own fate on this one.

 

The only thing that bothers me is the loud sled at 2 in the morning that wakes me from a dead sleep.
Also the ones that miss the curve in the trail and wind up going down my drive before I blow the snow off...This one is not a real big deal
And the ones that do get off course and drive right by me and do not stop to say anything.

 

Not on the trail, but I am extremely close to Scholl Rd. For those that ride the area it is the road just north of the BP station paved heading east. The edge of Scholl Rd. is a sled highway all winter for sleds going to Mancy from the east (ditchbanging). My house is 30-50 foot from the edge of Scholl Rd. I get used to the noise myself and in the day it mostly just puts a smile on my face that someone is enjoying a sport I LOVE. Personally I find loud autos/trucks as well as loud motorcycles (summer) more annoying than any sled passing by. Bikes on 131 3/4 of a mile away can be just as loud or louder than any sleds zipping by my cabin. You get 20 bikes in a group and it is just as loud as the train going down the 131 tracks.

 

The noise isnt a huge concern for me as it maybe for the neighbors that live there year round. I have great neighbors and I want it to stay that way.

 

I have a cabin in the northern lower peninsula. The snowmobile trail is on the dirt road in front of my cabin. The trail does not actually cross my property, but it is only about 100 yards from my cabin.

My answers to your questions are as follows:

How would each and everyone one of you feel about a snowmobile trail on your property? I wouldn't want the trail on my property because my property is pretty small, which means the trail would be really close to my house. The current situation, with the trail 100 yards is okay, though.

My first concerns are the health and safety of my children using our property with other riders. I don't have any problems with sledders going off the trail, so I don't think this would ever be a problem where I'm at. However, I don't have any children.

My second is liability There are statutes which protect you from liability if you allow the trail to cross your property. As mentioned above, as long as you don't intentionally do something that is intended to hurt people using the trail, you wouldn't generally face any liability problems.

My third is trespassers both on and off trail throughout the year As I stated above, I haven't had any problems with people trespassing on my property.

My fourth is loss of use for say hunting (signing/brushing) This is not an issue at all. My property also borders national forest land, and I have a lot of ORV/ATV riders passing by when there's no snow on the ground. The groomers, sign maintenance, snowmobile traffic, and ORV traffic have no effect on hunting or wildlife sightings.

My fifth is the responsibility and respect of my neighbors property I'm not sure what you're asking here. My neighbors, who also have the trail running in front of their places, don't seem to have any problems with trespassers or people riding off-trail.

My sixth is noise at all hours of the night I was worried about this when we bought our place. It has turned out to be a non-issue. The trail in front of our place is pretty heavily traveled during the daytime. However, there is very little traffic after dark. The noise is also mostly a non-issue. Every once in a while there is loud sled (or a loud dirt bike during the summer), but It really is no big deal.

 

Thanks for the response, I actually only had one question (How would each and everyone one of you feel about a snowmobile trail on your property? )

The rest of my topic was concerns I had for the aforementioned question.

PJ

 

you could always put up a hot dog stand to keep the kids entertained and to help pay for college. I know I'd stop........I would say to answer your question I would let it happen for a year and see what happens myself.

 

I was thinking he same thing, make it a trail stop with chili & hot chocolate, be interesting meeting many new people..

 

Your old and can barely hear let alone see though turbo ?

 

At my age I have earned the right to "hear and see" selectively.

 

I heard this year they were going to hang a bunch of tires around the groomer like a tugboat. John can just bounce off the trees that way. LOL

 

Nope...But I purposely bought away from the trail system because I didnt want the noise...I have the highest respect for the people that let it happen and in no way will be disrespectful on there land...thank you to all that do!

 

trail 8 is at the end of my friend's drive way in grand marais. When we are in the house we hardly even notice when there are sleds going by. If out side you can tell but it isnt bad. Traffic dies right down to about 0 after 830 at night.

 

I spoke with MSA at the show and they were surprised that I would consider having a trail on the property with small children on the property riding.

An additional concern would be what if My children are on the trail on my land and they are encountered by DNR or another LEO? Will they/I be ticketed as their machines most likely will not have trail permits or registration as they are to used on my property?

They could not answer that question.

I am guessing this trail will remain closed until next year. I am trying to do my best to help the community of Mancelona.

PJ

 

That is an interesting concern about the kids technically being on the trail without permits, BUT ARE within your property??? If you find an answer on this, let us know please.

Is there an existing trail that is now closed on your poroperty? Or trying to reroute a trail to reopen it?

Without seeing the section, is it or would it be a section sleds would be carrying a fair amount of speed, or a pretty slow section? That would probably be my biggest concern since the kids would be riding at times.

TY for considering a trail on your property! And TY to all the other property owners who allow trails on their land!!!

 

Neighborhood has it on his land,he had pushed some bush thought no big deal in the winter. He's not aloud to cross it to feed his cattle on his own land. He can't take anymore wood out near there on his own land. Never never get a trail on your land nightmare

 

That’s messed up! Who comes up with this shit! On top of that WHO agrees with this stupid shit?

 

Old thread. But it depends on the State.
I have trail and hardly notice.

Of course to be fair, we haven't had much snow here in recent years; and one of the neighbors on the trail set a curfew.

 

I find that hard to believe . I don't know where you are but you're certainly not in Manitoba .

 

The guy has one post so Im going to assume its a troll

 

A buddy of mine lives near the border of quebec in vermont. He told me the old owner of his property was pretty much told by a club up there that a trail needed to be put through his property. I think to this day it's still there with a gate.

 

Clubs have been known to overstep.
The trail administrators are volunteers, and sometimes don't have the legacy memories to know how the system is formed.

 

Well as a club we certainly can't tell anyone " the trail is going across your land " . Landowner lease agreements have to be signed or Snoman will not allow us to have a trail . We have use of the trail from Dec 1 to April 1 , liability is covered by Snoman and either party can terminate with 30 days notice . As a club we ask to be informed of any work planned near or on the trail so we can devise a work around . With respect to a landowner routinely crossing a trail , some time ago the stop sign was invented so as with a road crossing , snow traffic stops . The biggest thing is being on good terms with landowners . PS I have a trail on my land with no concerns .

 

Worry about "what if" or "it's mine" mentality is why snowmobile trails are dying. When asked for permision everybody neuters themselves and wants to get their lawyer and insurance agent involved because lord help us if their was even a .001% chance of liability. Doesnt matter if your lack of trust in anybody but yourself completely ruins the enjoyment of being outdoors by everybody else. Been dealing with this piss-poor attitude since covid towards many outdoor activities in my rural area due to all the citiots that moved here to escape the "plague".

I'm a landowner and if you come to me to ask for permission to hunt, snowmobile, or atv on my property we'll set out some rules and then damn good chance you'll get a yes. And I will never consult my lawyer first. I've only said no twice in 35yr owning my farm for any requests and only then because they were obvious city dwellers who had no idea about hunting, firearm safety, nada and wanted to hunt deer with a whole crowd of "cousins". All else has been yes.

I trust everyone I deal with until they prove they don't deserve it. THEN I don't trust them. Not this attitude where you assume everybody is out to screw you and act accordingly. Lifes too short for that.

 

It takes a while for them to understand the area. Even though manners shouldn't be localized.
Every now and then I would get someone dumping trash. As if burying it in the snow made it go away forever.
But overall I would say a pretty decent group of tourists.

 

Here in Sweden there's "allemansrätten". It doesn't exactly mean you need to allow everybody on your land, but it is common to not protest to much when someone crosses your land, with whatever purpose. As long as they respect the land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

Allemansrätten - Sweden's right of public access

"The Right of Public Access", or 'Allemansrätten' as we call it, gives everyone the freedom to roam and explore the beauty of our country.

visitsweden.com

 

NH was that way.
About twenty years ago, they changed it for motorized users.