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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here we go, WI wants to ban smoking in all public areas like IL. What a crock. I do not smoke nor will I ever smoke, but please. Last I knew it was a free state/country. If someone wants to smoke, I can leave that area. This kind of crap is getting out of hand. And for those of you who think this is a good idea.....feel free to move to Illinois.
 

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I sure hope it passes, I'm sick of my friends and relatives dying from it, maybe they will smoke less or quit if they can't light up where ever they wish.

Don
 

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I hope it passes as well. Yes it is a free country. If you want to smoke, then do it at home or on your own property, so I don't have to deal with it. I hate coming home smelling like an ash tray.
 

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I think it has more to do with the rights of non smokers to breath fresh air than it is the right of smokers to feed a habit. The government sees it like this... It has a responsibility to citizens to provide safe and clean public areas. It has no responsibility to give the minority the right to pollute the air that everyone breathes.

And to tell you the truth, this ban would have been passed all over the country a while ago if it werent for tobacco companies having a such a hugely influential lobby group and buying the popular vote. I smoke sometimes when i drink, I enjoy a good cigarette with my booze, but I wouldnt mind the ban. I can do without, especially when i go out, then smell my clothes the next morning. That disgusting stale smoke smell will not be missed, it masks the smell of the strippers and sluts that were all over me the night before. :ylsuper:
 

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I think it has more to do with the rights of non smokers to breath fresh air than it is the right of smokers to feed a habit. The government sees it like this... It has a responsibility to citizens to provide safe and clean public areas. It has no responsibility to give the minority the right to pollute the air that everyone breathes.

And to tell you the truth, this ban would have been passed all over the country a while ago if it werent for tobacco companies having a such a hugely influential lobby group and buying the popular vote. I smoke sometimes when i drink, I enjoy a good cigarette with my booze, but I wouldnt mind the ban. I can do without, especially when i go out, then smell my clothes the next morning. That disgusting stale smoke smell will not be missed, it masks the smell of the strippers and sluts that were all over me the night before. :ylsuper:[/b]

Yeah buddy, I hear ya, but come on!! If this passes what next, noise pollution. this is a tree hugger law for sure. Take away my gun out of my cold dead hands.
 

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Yeah buddy, I hear ya, but come on!! If this passes what next, noise pollution. this is a tree hugger law for sure. Take away my gun out of my cold dead hands.[/b]
Yeah, I know. And you know I of all people hate gov stepping in and putting regulations on every damn thing possible. But on this ban its more about peoples right to healthy air, not people rights to pollute the air. Smokers still have a choice to smoke, they can do it at thier homes or in thier cars, non-smokers have no choice but to keep breathing. But i am right there with you, you want to see chaos, try taking my guns away.... :flag_usa:
 

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the government is screwed!
we need to fire them all, and start over.

then hire in the people who will do the job right.(like HCS'ers)
 

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The problem isent banning smoking its the fact of the matter.

We never get anything back from the government they just keep taking/banning things. If they want smoking to go then lets negotiate something back to us. Once the get this then what is next a speed limit on sleds? OH YA, never mind we should be fine.
 

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The problem isent banning smoking its the fact of the matter.

We never get anything back from the government they just keep taking/banning things. If they want smoking to go then lets negotiate something back to us. Once the get this then what is next a speed limit on sleds? OH YA, never mind we should be fine.[/b]
Yes, great point. Every year they add like 100 new laws and never take any away. Everything has a law associated with it now, I understand the need to have laws, but a law on how you live your life. IN 100 years you'll have to follow the Gov't checklist by the hour for Christ sake...enough of the gov't intervention. Let the locals decide like they have been doing with the smoking law. Then if you don't like the local law move to where you fit in. Nothing ever goes good when you have a few making laws for the masses.

25% of americans smoke..so now the other 75% are telling that 25% how to live their lives.

Its as crazy as this....thought:

You know your big house and big truck cause lots of pollution..smog, mercuryin the water, lead in the paint..to heat your house and all the electricity your house uses and you run your truck which gives money to the Middleeast and causes pollution in making, transporting and refining the gas. Baybe because you cause pollution that way you should go to jail 1 week a year or pay a huge tax because a lot of us don't have the big house and big SUV and we can vote that way to imprison you. Total BS..but that is fair is fair right?
 

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I can understand your and UG's point on the topic here. But making correlations to pollution of cars or homes isnt really valid. Cigarettes dont benefit anyone, not the people that smoke them, not the people that breathe the second hand pollution. The only thing they do supply is jobs. And I am guessing this ban wont ax even a dent of those. Cars and big houses have a function, and if you are privy to taxes, those people that have million dollar houses are paying a shitload of property taxes. Gas guzzler tax, and gas taxes are the way of making people with big suv's pay more. You use more gas/make more pollution, you pay more taxes. What you guys are talking about is happening.

On the flip side, i think that since they are making this new law AND uping the taxes on cigarettes, we should see some material benefit from it as UG said. I dont know exactly what that would be.

I have crazy ideas for improvements, maybe you would agree with them, maybe not. If they are raising cigarette taxes $1 a pack that has to be some huge revenue. Enough to help some establishments like bars to apply for smoking rights and when they are approved they get a free air/smoke filter provided from the cigarette tax fund. So, if you are buying cigarettes and smoking in these public places, you are paying for the air to be cleaned. If you are not a smoker, you arent paying anymore taxes and you can visit your favorite establishment AND have it be relatively safe from second hand smoke. Smoke filters are not expensive, they arent some insane technology we dont have. Its just an idea that would makes sense and cater to everyones interests, even the bar owners wouldnt pay more.

Dardevil3 for president 08! :flag_usa:
 

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Yes, great point. Every year they add like 100 new laws and never take any away. Everything has a law associated with it now, I understand the need to have laws, but a law on how you live your life. IN 100 years you'll have to follow the Gov't checklist by the hour for Christ sake...enough of the gov't intervention. Let the locals decide like they have been doing with the smoking law. Then if you don't like the local law move to where you fit in. Nothing ever goes good when you have a few making laws for the masses.

25% of americans smoke..so now the other 75% are telling that 25% how to live their lives.

Its as crazy as this....thought:

You know your big house and big truck cause lots of pollution..smog, mercuryin the water, lead in the paint..to heat your house and all the electricity your house uses and you run your truck which gives money to the Middleeast and causes pollution in making, transporting and refining the gas. Baybe because you cause pollution that way you should go to jail 1 week a year or pay a huge tax because a lot of us don't have the big house and big SUV and we can vote that way to imprison you. Total BS..but that is fair is fair right?[/b]
Personal freedom as defined by your argument says that asbestos should be sold in any store, used commonly by those who wished- too bad if others have to come into contact with it.
So when / where are you lobbying for Asbestos and DDT and lead sinkers and lawn darts? I don't want my rights infringed!
 

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Personal freedom as defined by your argument says that asbestos should be sold in any store, used commonly by those who wished- too bad if others have to come into contact with it.
So when / where are you lobbying for Asbestos and DDT and lead sinkers and lawn darts? I don't want my rights infringed![/b]
You forgot to include 3 wheelers.
 

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Im all for the smoking ban. If you want to smoke, thats fine, but you have no right to give other's lung cancer just because you have to feed your habit.
It sure would be nice to be able to sit in a bar and enjoy a few beers without having to breath someone else's second hand smoke and then having to go home reeking of cigarette smoke.
If you want to smoke and give yourself lung cancer, fine, but do it elsewhere.
 

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Just add no public :smoke: to the long list of things your no longer allowed to do in a supposedly "free country"!
Whether it's making a choice to smoke in public or drive your car down the street with out your seat belt fastened it's just another freedom of choice being stripped away from all of us.
So let's not sugar coat this by allowing the elected govenment officials to say this law will make 75% of the people happy while pissing off only 25% but we can live with that and put in place a law that makes it so.
This is a loss of freedom of choice people it's that simple!
Whether you smoke or not is irrelavent here you are giving up your freedom to make a choice and think for your self!
How do you think DICTATORSHIPS work?!
I don't necessarily have a problem with this new law (and yes I'm a smoker) but shouldn't laws concerning freedom of choice be put up for vote so the public can voice an opinion and not just our elected government officials telling us how it's going to be?
Isn't a majority vote how a democracy is supposed to work?
I agree that smoking is a nasty habit and one I would like to quit but shouldn't I be allowed the right to choose when and were?
Those that don't smoke always had the right to choose if they wanted to visit a given establishment or not if in there own opinion it was too smokie for there liking that was there right.
Smokers are not being given the same rights!
We are just being told this is the way it's going to be by our elected goverment officials and that's that!
IMO that's wrong!
I visit many establishments were I can't smoke and I don't have a problem with that and yes it's my choice to vist those establishments or not as well which are the same rights as those who don't smoke!
Until now!
We are all being told you don't have the right to choose!

This is by no means the end of this as we will be stripped of the freedom of choice in other matters as well it's only a matter of time and it's anbody's guess as to what will be next on our governments list of what they want to take control of and take that next freedom to choose away from all of us.
Could be public consumption of alcohol for all I know? Or maybe the use of 2 stroke motors in our recreational vehicles because the smoke is deemed to harmful to our atmosphere, Or even our right to bear arms because as we all know guns kill people right?!
The list goes on and on and yet we do nothing as we slowly loose the freedom to choose for our selves.
There is nothig wrong with trying to better our society as a whole by making new laws that benifit every one as a whole.
Shouldn't those changes and laws be voted upon by all of us as United States citizens not our elected government officials?
Allowing our government to make those choices for us is not what this countries principles were founded on!
:m2c:
 

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Just add no public :smoke: to the long list of things your no longer allowed to do in a supposedly "free country"!
Whether it's making a choice to smoke in public or drive your car down the street with out your seat belt fastened it's just another freedom of choice being stripped away from all of us.
So let's not sugar coat this by allowing the elected govenment officials to say this law will make 75% of the people happy while pissing off only 25% but we can live with that and put in place a law that makes it so.
This is a loss of freedom of choice people it's that simple!
Whether you smoke or not is irrelavent here you are giving up your freedom to make a choice and think for your self!
How do you think DICTATORSHIPS work?!
I don't necessarily have a problem with this new law (and yes I'm a smoker) but shouldn't laws concerning freedom of choice be put up for vote so the public can voice an opinion and not just our elected government officials telling us how it's going to be?
Isn't a majority vote how a democracy is supposed to work?
I agree that smoking is a nasty habit and one I would like to quit but shouldn't I be allowed the right to choose when and were?
Those that don't smoke always had the right to choose if they wanted to visit a given establishment or not if in there own opinion it was too smokie for there liking that was there right.
Smokers are not being given the same rights!
We are just being told this is the way it's going to be by our elected goverment officials and that's that!
IMO that's wrong!
I visit many establishments were I can't smoke and I don't have a problem with that and yes it's my choice to vist those establishments or not as well which are the same rights as those who don't smoke!
Until now!
We are all being told you don't have the right to choose!

This is by no means the end of this as we will be stripped of the freedom of choice in other matters as well it's only a matter of time and it's anbody's guess as to what will be next on our governments list of what they want to take control of and take that next freedom to choose away from all of us.
Could be public consumption of alcohol for all I know? Or maybe the use of 2 stroke motors in our recreational vehicles because the smoke is deemed to harmful to our atmosphere, Or even our right to bear arms because as we all know guns kill people right?!
The list goes on and on and yet we do nothing as we slowly loose the freedom to choose for our selves.
There is nothig wrong with trying to better our society as a whole by making new laws that benifit every one as a whole.
Shouldn't those changes and laws be voted upon by all of us as United States citizens not our elected government officials?
Allowing our government to make those choices for us is not what this countries principles were founded on!
:m2c:[/b]
Do you remember prohibition?
Are you saying it's okay to tick off 75% of the folks who want smoking bans, or the 25% that don't want it banned?
When I was a kid you could smoke anywhere even in department stores, not legal anymore... the non-smoking majority shouldn't have to get sick or breath the second-hand smoke of others. Aren't most things done by majority rules, like electing our officials for example, even if 49% want a certain person in office and 51% voted for someone else, the 49% doesn't get there man/woman,.... majority rules, right?


Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Guys,
The point I am trying to make and this goes the same with the 55mph speed limit and has been said best by Ron Paul:

"Freedom is the absence of government coercion. Our Founding Fathers
understood this, and created the least coercive government in the
history of the world. The Constitution established a very limited,
decentralized government to provide national defense and little else.
States, not the federal government, were charged with protecting
individuals against criminal force and fraud. For the first time, a
government was created solely to protect the rights, liberties, and
property of its citizens. Any government coercion beyond that necessary
to secure those rights was forbidden, both through the Bill of Rights
and the doctrine of strictly enumerated powers."

Every politician on earth claims to support freedom. The problem is so
few of them understand the simple meaning of the word.

We don't need more laws telling us how to live,
What is the difference with these 2 statements?
Smoker:
1. Because we live in a country where are FREEDOMS are protected, I
have a choice to go into a potentially deadly smoke filled room.

Non Smoker:
2. I hope they ban smoking from public areas, it pollutes and causes
deadly toxins.


Snowmobiler:
1. Because we live in a country where are FREEDOMS are protected, I
have a choice to drive a fast, potentially deadly snowmobile.

Non Snowmobiler:
2. I hope they ban snowmobiles from public areas, they pollute and
cause deadly toxins.

Sorry about the rant, just my thoughts.
 

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Guys,
The point I am trying to make and this goes the same with the 55mph speed limit and has been said best by Ron Paul:

"Freedom is the absence of government coercion. Our Founding Fathers
understood this, and created the least coercive government in the
history of the world. The Constitution established a very limited,
decentralized government to provide national defense and little else.
States, not the federal government, were charged with protecting
individuals against criminal force and fraud. For the first time, a
government was created solely to protect the rights, liberties, and
property of its citizens. Any government coercion beyond that necessary
to secure those rights was forbidden, both through the Bill of Rights
and the doctrine of strictly enumerated powers."

Every politician on earth claims to support freedom. The problem is so
few of them understand the simple meaning of the word.

We don't need more laws telling us how to live,
What is the difference with these 2 statements?
Smoker:
1. Because we live in a country where are FREEDOMS are protected, I
have a choice to go into a potentially deadly smoke filled room.

Non Smoker:
2. I hope they ban smoking from public areas, it pollutes and causes
deadly toxins.
Snowmobiler:
1. Because we live in a country where are FREEDOMS are protected, I
have a choice to drive a fast, potentially deadly snowmobile.

Non Snowmobiler:
2. I hope they ban snowmobiles from public areas, they pollute and
cause deadly toxins.

Sorry about the rant, just my thoughts.[/b]
I think you could use any device, product, drug, dope, or chemical and say the same things,... it boils down to only 1 thing, whether or not anyone has a right to harm someones elses health by there addictions used in places where the public gathers, be it an airline, movie showhouse, school, department store, or bars.
The founding Fathers never knew the health risks of smoking, nor the raping of our health systems dollars to provide care to the 1000's who get sick from smoking related illnesses.

Don
 
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