[rob]

Quote from Arctic Cat:

DO NOT REMOVE THE WHITE SEALING RING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL HAVE
BURN DOWNS AND FUEL SYSTEM RELATED ISSUES LIKE PLUGGED INJECTOR SCREENS.
Rob, The valves DO NOT, cause burn downs. I am not sure what you are seeing
but I will check with some guys here. We have had some burn downs from
cooling system issues. They are normally the mag side. I don't believe I
have seen a crank failure at all on the 700s and I do not believe I have
seen a seizure not related to a cooling system issue. They have all  been
over heat issues. Please do not support taking the valve part of the smart
valve out. It will cause serious issues for people. It sounds like a knee
jerk fix and its not the right way to go. If the valve was put in and it
was put in flat then there shouldn't be any issues. If the dealer installed
it on its side even at a 45 degree angle to the bottom of the tank then you
will have a problem. They must run flat.[/b]

 

[Super 8]

This is what I needed to hear, I have installed the new valve and was puzzled. Thanks for the info Rob, Les.....

 

[switta]

i put a small hole in mine just like the one in the pic thank's for the post rob!

 

[fcr61]

Rob, just curious as to why people are still having problems with the new valves also. On my dad's 02 zl6efi he had a smart valve problem which took out the fuel pump, ran fine for the remainder of the year, this year first ride out fuel pump started whining like a little b!t(h, fished out the rear valve, popped it open and viola white disc has the relief hole in it, removed disc like many have done, and 100+ trouble free miles since. My question to Cat would be if they "KNOW" the new valves work, or if they are still seeing problems, also.

 

[rob]

Originally posted by FCR61@Jan 6 2003, 11:06 AM
Rob, just curious as to why people are still having problems with the new valves also. On my dad's 02 zl6efi he had a smart valve problem which took out the fuel pump, ran fine for the remainder of the year, this year first ride out fuel pump started whining like a little b!t(h, fished out the rear valve, popped it open and viola white disc has the relief hole in it, removed disc like many have done, and 100+ trouble free miles since. My question to Cat would be if they "KNOW" the new valves work, or if they are still seeing problems, also.

I'm not sure what's up, but I think we have Cat looking into it now. Point of this post was just to say that removing the white seal is not a good idea either.

Other things that could cause a problem are 1) the valve not lying flat on the bottom of the tank, and also 2) the fuel pump itself 'separating. I'm surprised there hasn't been more said about this point... In the update kit that contains the new SV, there is a bracket that is made to support the lower part of the fuel pump. It seems that some pumps have been coming apart, and that also is allowing air to enter, possibly causing problems there. Maybe this is being overlooked as a problem area?

 

[fcr61]

I totally can "see" Cat's point of not removing the disc, and hopefully they are looking in to this since many have made this mod and it cured the problem, maybe the relief hole is not quite big enough. I think that I may try it again with the disc in, it's funny my Fcat and Jay's Fcat have not been updated and are running fine.(knock on wood)

 

[messickzr]

Interesting point Rob. It is hard for me to beleive that all burndowns are coolant related since the awareness of that issue is pretty high. Seems to me like there must be some sort of lean condition happening. I know you will keep us informed! The only thing that scares me is the fact that I do not get to read this page daily, what if I miss out!

 

[justinf7]

Rob, I took my white disc out. I haven't been able to ride. Should I drill a small hole in it and put it back? How big of hole, and does it matter where the hole is drilled in the rubber disc? I don't really see how removing the disc could cause any problems. It doesn't make any sense at all. It still has the screen/filter, and don't both pickups, front and rear, do the same thing? I'm confused...

 

[rob]

Originally posted by justinf7@Jan 6 2003, 11:35 AM
Rob, I took my white disc out. I haven't been able to ride. Should I drill a small hole in it and put it back? How big of hole, and does it matter where the hole is drilled in the rubber disc? I don't really see how removing the disc could cause any problems. It doesn't make any sense at all. It still has the screen/filter, and don't both pickups, front and rear, do the same thing? I'm confused...

to tell the truth, this is not an area that I know much about.. I never even heard of 'smart valves' until a few months ago. Right now I'm just passing on a STRONG recommendation from Cat. I'm not exactly sure what the white disc does and doesn't do, but if Cat says its not a good idea to remove it, I'll leave it in until I find out a good reason not to.

 

[looneytune]

Rob, can you ask the guy at Cat how removing the white disc affects the filtering capacity of the smart valve? If you are replacing the mesh screen like I do, I don't understand how particles are getting to the pump. The valve, when functioning properly, would still pass particles behind the disc if they got through the mesh because the disc is raised off its seat. I'm not saying to remove the disc and leave the screen off, if that is what he thinks we are doing. That disc is a seat for the valve mechanism, not a filter. Can you get any clarification from him on this? My new valve is installed intact, I'm just curious of that explanation he gave. And I'm not saying I know everything either, just asking a question.

 

[rob]

I'll try and get more info.

 

[justinf7]

Hey loonytune! This is Justin from Iowa. Talked to you on the phone about drag setups, etc. Last year we ran an 01 800ZR. Usually Dan calls you. Anyhow, I took my white disc out and it still is. We don't have any snow to test with, but I agree that this should not cause any problems such as blockage in the pump, and purn downs, etc... I think the guy from cat thinks that we are taking out the filter!! I thought that the SV's were to prevent sucking air when going up and down steep hill's etc... What do you think about running with the disc out in the mountains, or should I drill a hole in the disc and put it back in. How big of hole is it? thanks, Justin.

 

[rob]

Got this so fast you will think I wrote it myself (but I didn't).

More info from Cat on what the smart valves do and how they do it:

Its really pretty simple. Everyone is overcomplicating what it is.  Its
a valve, it shuts the fuel off when it detects a contaminant to prevent the
injectors from being damaged.. The screen is what causes the valve to
actuate and the rubber disc is what actually shuts off the fuel supply. You
don't want to do pump damage or engine damage by causing a low fuel
pressure condition which is what could happen ( very likely) if you remove
the rubber disc from the valve. If the screen in the valve starts to have a
vacuum applied by the pump, because of an obstruction or water or air on
the intake side of the screen, and it moves in toward the valve body, and
there is no disc to shut off the fuel flow, the pump will try to pull fuel
through the valve anyway because it couldn't seal and shut off. This will
result in pump strain / damage, and most likely the drop in fuel pressure
will cause a seizure. If the disc is in place the valve shuts off cleanly
and the engine runs out of fuel quickly and shuts down or bogs till it
shuts off with no damage. The shut off washer or disc is not the issue. The
new vented valves which we have always used in the past shouldn't have this
problem. If they do they either were not installed flat in the tank or
there is a contaminant in the tank.[/b]

 

[dave cat 7]

Rob,
you sure you don't work for cat?
my dealer can't get answers that fast!
thanks for all you've done for us on here

 

[mainecat]

contaminants= water, premix or the jelly doughnut you dropped in that porthole sized filler!!!

 

[looneytune]

Thanks Rob, that was the answer I was looking for. Because my next question was if the valve could react quick enough to prevent a seizure. I don't think my motor would like it too much if I shut off the fuel supply at WOT. I would also like to see a picture of a burnt piston from this problem. There should be a difference in the appearance of the piston that seized because of a lean condition and one that stuck from overheating. If they have melted domes or exhaust end top damage near the rings, than I would question the cause do to overheating. Thank God I haven't seen one, nor do I want to, especially mine! I'm putting my EGT gauge on this week, so I can better monitor temps. I would also like to see the effect of a timing key on temps also. But I'm not trying one, even though I have one. I'm just glad I got the F7 this year, because next years will probably be good and fat with less timing in it. And less power. Justin, listen to the guy at Cat and get the new valve. Its only a tiny hole that looks like its pierced into it. I'm not going to argue about something I don't really know about. Thats why he's probably an engineer. He knows, I was just trying to speculate.

 

[.45acp]

So when i drilled the back of my valve i really didnt need to ? but my valve was closed shut and stayed closed even after i pulled it from the tank, it released after i drilled the back. and the screen was "clean to the eye" it only had 20 miles on it.

 

[f7smoker]

Thank you rob for getting this info. You made my decsion of what to do with the disc,i am going to leave it alone. And also i will sleep much better tonight.Thanks again,i feel much better.Your sight has really helped me out,and the people who are on this sight. thank you all!