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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I see this PT Cruiser yesterday with a bigass sticker on the back, says "Have you lost your job yet? Keep buying Foreign!".

Hmm, lets see... he's driving a vehicle built in MEXICO, owned by GERMANS, that is blowing out AMERICAN jobs fast as anyone. :banghead:

Is there some irony in there somewhere?? If you really want to buy American, it must be on a car-by-car basis, NOT by manufacturer only. Went by a Mazda lot recently, checked out a car that was 79% US content... and built right here in good ole MI!! Hmm, owned by Ford, built by neighbors... I could justify that one!

Tired of hypocrites, and people that can't think... :cn:

NEXT!

:beerchug:
 

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First, the guy was in a PT loser...Nuff said there.

Secondly, I bet 80% of the population doesn't understand that many Ford Super Duty trucks are built in Mexico and if they have a diesel, it's from Brazil (the engine). They see one of the Big 3 badges and think they are doing the right thing, at least they are trying.

My grandpa bought a Dodge mini p/u a few years back. He was in WWII, Korea and Vietnam FWIW. When he got home he discovered his new truck was made in Japan...took it right back ASAP :smilielol:

Here's some more irony...What about the guy in the Honda Pilot with an American Flag sticker on his car? :frech32: Now that just pisses me off more than the fact he bought an import.

Lastly, how many dumbasses think they are buying a Japanese Mazda when they are actually buying a rebadged Ford built here. That one makes me laugh my ass off when they start about their Japanese superiority BS and then you point out where their Mazda Navajo was built :banana:
 

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I don't really think it matters where any "American" car is made, the execs are either trying to cut costs by making the product elsewhere, or the overall profits are going overseas.
 

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Looks like Yamaballer is doing a little :fishing: (must need some attention)

BTW the PT Cruiser program supported me a few years back and many others as well so it's more than just "where it's built" as I'm sure you know. When you see Toyo and Honda work rolling through the job shops around town at the same rate as the big 2.5 let me know, I'll start supporting the japs as well.
 

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When you see Toyo and Honda work rolling through the job shops around town at the same rate as the big 2.5 let me know, I'll start supporting the japs as well.[/b]
HA! That will most likely NEVER happen. But hey, they are hiring Americans more than GM or Ford.......:flush:
 

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HA! That will most likely NEVER happen. But hey, they are hiring Americans more than GM or Ford.......:flush:[/b]
Yeah I know but some people like Yamaballer have a hard-on for the big 2.5 for whatever reason and buy the PR crap. Study after study has been done that shows just what kind of an impact the us automakers have versus the transplants on the economy but he chooses to bash em(he'll say he isn't but that was the purpose of this thread IMO)
 

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So I see this PT Cruiser yesterday with a bigass sticker on the back, says "Have you lost your job yet? Keep buying Foreign!".

Hmm, lets see... he's driving a vehicle built in MEXICO, owned by GERMANS, that is blowing out AMERICAN jobs fast as anyone. :banghead:

Is there some irony in there somewhere?? If you really want to buy American, it must be on a car-by-car basis, NOT by manufacturer only. Went by a Mazda lot recently, checked out a car that was 79% US content... and built right here in good ole MI!! Hmm, owned by Ford, built by neighbors... I could justify that one!

Tired of hypocrites, and people that can't think... :cn:

NEXT!

:beerchug:[/b]
Yamahauler,
I'm disappointed in you..... you of all people (someone that has been in the business) should know better. You must be bored or just want to stir the pot up .. :frech32:
I've said this before and I will say it again.
When are people going to figure out there is a HUGE difference between assembled/manufactured and the actual engineering and design of a component/vehicle.
That is the smoke screen that the "sheep" keep using when buying thier so-called US assembled/manufactured foreign vehicles.

To bring a component from concept to release takes a HUGE amount of recources and that is where the jobs are.
Just because it has 90% US manufactured components doesn't mean shit, how many people are typically employed by a plant? 600-1000 maybe ? Buying your foriegn cars keeps that plant going BUT the majority of the thier work is done at supplier/vendors OUTSIDE of this country, buying a vehicle from the big 3 keeps suppliers/venders (and all the people that work for them, way more than just an asy. plant) employed in THIS country. Sure they might send thier product overseas to get assembled/manufactured BUT the majority of the work is done here by Americans.

I've used this senario before but the "sheep" just keep thier heads down and following each other.

My truck is from one of the Big 3, and yes it was assembled in Mexico. But I know for a fact where the majority of the workforce involved in the creation of it was done here by an American workforce.

Interior and exterior styling was done in Auburn Hills MI (one supplier)
Sheetmetal engineering and design was done in Auburn Hills MI and Troy (two suppliers)
Interior trim , IP, console was engineered and designed in Auburn Hills, Troy, and Dearborn MI (three suppliers)
Vehicle electronics and wiring was engineered and designed in Auburn Hills, Southfield and Troy (three suppliers)
Tooling engineering and design was done in Auburn hills, and Troy MI
.....ETC ETC, and believe me there is many more resources involved in the creation of a vehicle. And sure each one of those suppliers most likely did send some work offshore , but the MAJORITY of the resources were here in the US. Even some of thier asy. plants.
So the smallest part of the equation is the actual assembly of the vehicle.
Take that PT loser for instance, Styling was of course done by DCX, as well as BIW designs (so now you have employed people at Auburn hills) , I believe the cockpit/Ip was done by Lear and Collins and Aikman (Southfield and Troy) , die designs for the exterior sheetmetal were done by Wisne design (troy) , convertable top mechanism was done by Dura (troy) etc. That is just a small sample of what it takes to engineer and design a car. I'm positive there were MANY more American jobs that helped get that car on the road than there are Mexicans in the plant building it or Germans' spending the profits.

Now in the case of the Foriegn vehicles its quited the opposite. The stuff that is done here in the US requires the smallest amount of resources , the assembly and manufactering end of it. Now I will admit a couple of the foriegn OEM's do have studios and design centers here in the States but it still requires a very small portion of the US workforce. Maybe someday it will change, who knows but believing your US assembled/manufactured car is helping more Americans is truly a joke and the smoke and mirror show you are getting is totally decieving you.
This isn't about where the profits go or any bullshit like that , this is about AMERICAN JOBS, and not just in the plants.

Yamahauler,
No hard feelings okay :beerchug: You know how I feel on this topic and why.
 

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Secondly, I bet 80% of the population doesn't understand that many Ford Super Duty trucks are built in Mexico and if they have a diesel, it's from Brazil (the engine). They see one of the Big 3 badges and think they are doing the right thing, at least they are trying.



Ford superdutys are made at kentucky truck. Not sure about the engines you could be right.

The guy with the bumper sticker most likely has been working at chrysler for 20 or more years and still thinks that its a american company. You might want to cut him a little slack at least hes supporting the company that he works for.

The market is getting more and more cloudy on where its built and with all of the adds on tv saying your toyota is built in the U.S.A. people belive what they read and see.


I just wish I had a choice in my electric company I would like to use someone else besides dte so I could tell my neighbor who works for them to :bigfinger: With is toyota in the driveway.

Duane
 

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This is simple guys GM and Ford are as American as Apple Pie and Baseball. Toyota, Honda, Nissan are as Japanese as Sushi and Sumo wrestling. Doesn't matter where they are assembled or sold. Support the USA with GM, Ford, and DCX or support Japan with Toyota, Honda, Nissan. Could you imagine how many people would buy Toyotas if they had Chevy's ad campaign.
Toyota: A Japanese Revolution!!!!
 

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Secondly, I bet 80% of the population doesn't understand that many Ford Super Duty trucks are built in Mexico and if they have a diesel, it's from Brazil (the engine). They see one of the Big 3 badges and think they are doing the right thing, at least they are trying.
Duane[/b]
So what !!! You keep maybe 600-1000 Mexicans and Brazilians employed. I guarantee there were MANY more Americans involved with getting that truck from concept to launch.... open the eye's !!
Buying that Mexican/Brazilian ASSEMBLED truck kept more Americans employed than someone buying an AMERICAN assembled Toyota that was designed and engineered overseas.
 

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It seems like now days ford,dodge,chevy are made in mexico or another country.But the foreign car names like honda,toyota and so on are made here in the u.s. :frech32: :dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
First, the guy was in a PT loser...Nuff said there.[/b]
:smilielol:
07 Chevy Impala = 90% U.S./Canadian content. 07 Toyota Camary(American built version) = 75% U.S./Canadian content.[/b]
Ok... that's one car... how many more have that kind of content?? I only see the Impala in these examples lately. Im sure there's more... but it's the bigger point of it all, not any one example. :div20:
It really is to late anymore. Manufacturing jobs are done. :white_flag:[/b]
For the time... :(
Looks like Yamaballer is doing a little :fishing: (must need some attention)[/b]
W/E... :cn: If thinking for yourself is fishing...
BTW the PT Cruiser program supported me a few years back and many others as well so it's more than just "where it's built" as I'm sure you know. When you see Toyo and Honda work rolling through the job shops around town at the same rate as the big 2.5 let me know, I'll start supporting the japs as well.[/b]
Of course I do... they are, just ask the Toyo workers in KY... they make just as much, and are quite happy, all without a union. Go figure... now, with Toyo, Hyundai and Nissan building HQs right here in Detroit, to think work is not coming with it is denial. :frech32:
(he'll say he isn't but that was the purpose of this thread IMO)[/b]
Study schmudy... take a look at the direction of the Big 2.5 from their own mouths... CUT MORE US JOBS, OPEN MORE OFFSHORE PLANTS... Ford wants 60%+ of all engineering done in 'less costly labor markets' by '08... THATS THEIR FKN GOAL MAN!! Now, what part of 'your job is leaving' don't you understand??
I'm disappointed in you..... you of all people (someone that has been in the business) should know better. When are people going to figure out there is a HUGE difference between assembled/manufactured and the actual engineering and design of a component/vehicle....
Sure they might send thier product overseas to get assembled/manufactured BUT the majority of the work is done here by Americans. This isn't about where the profits go or any bullshit like that , this is about AMERICAN JOBS, and not just in the plants.[/b]
Sorry to disappoint... but you know I deal with stats/numbers only. Last I recall, design was about 15-20% of total platform budget. And to say you don't care where the profits go, or the plant jobs, is kinda self-serving. So now we should just look for where it was designed? My POV is looking at the industry as a whole... design, parts, materials, assembly, profits... and you must admit: the entire industry is in metamorphosis right now, with US mfgs heading out, and Asian mfgs coming in... not rocket science to see that happening.
No hard feelings okay :beerchug: You know how I feel on this topic and why.[/b]
:beerchug:
Ford superdutys are made at kentucky truck. Not sure about the engines you could be right.[/b]
Trucks are the last remaining staple of highest US content... but the 'rest of the world' is catching up quick, and building viable contenders now... won't be long til that market slips, too. It would have already, if not for fleet purchases.
The guy with the bumper sticker most likely has been working at chrysler for 20 or more years and still thinks that its a american company. You might want to cut him a little slack at least hes supporting the company that he works for.[/b]
No problems supporting who you're working for... but they should know who that is... :frech32:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Buying that Mexican/Brazilian ASSEMBLED truck kept more Americans employed than someone buying an AMERICAN assembled Toyota that was designed and engineered overseas.[/b]
Sorry, but what about the programs I worked on in engineering since 2000 for Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Sanyo, Metalsa. etc.? They ARE doing eng work here, just because your shop hasn't doesn't mean it's not here. :div20:
I couldn't help but notice some of you are riding sleds or have had sleds that were not made in the good ole U.S.A. :dunno:[/b]
Sleds don't count... so they say. :cn:
It seems like now days ford,dodge,chevy are made in mexico or another country. But the foreign car names like honda,toyota and so on are made here in the u.s. :frech32: :dunno:[/b]
You mean like Honda of America, VW of America, Toyota and GM building ON THE SAME LINE, etc.? Good point. :div20:

Check this out... from 1998!! (edited for length)
---------------------------------
1998 Honda Accord -- Concept and Development

Torrance, Calif. 04/02/1997 --

Around the time that the 1994 (5th generation) Accord was launched, Honda product planners were already planning its 6th generation replacement.

The U.S. sedan, code-named LS (for Large Sedan) would not just be a new model, but was to be an entirely new concept in the evolution of a world car. Built from a common platform, but unique to its markets. It will be manufactured only in the U.S. There will be no pilot production or "Mother" assembly line in Japan. Honda of America Manufacturing, Inc. (HAM), the Accord's U.S. assembly plant in Marysville, Ohio, was responsible for all manufacturing development, while continuing to produce the 5th generation Accord. Marysville was recently recognized by J.D. Power and Associates as the top-quality automotive assembly plant in the world.

A new Coupe (code-named AC for American Coupe) was planned for the U.S. and European markets and will not only be built in the U.S., but was also designed, developed and tested there by Honda R&D operations in North America. The new Coupe is a true coupe and not a two-door sedan. The interior and exterior are almost completely different from the Sedan, with only the instrument panel being shared inside and common headlights and door handles on the exterior.

Honda wanted the new Accord to have the high U.S. content, so during the preliminary stage of the design, meetings were held with U.S. suppliers and their input was sought. Suppliers were also to be brought in again as the design work advanced and again when the prototype was developed.

American Honda design specialists met with owners in their homes throughout the United States in the fall of '93 and again in 1995, in an effort to better understand their lifestyles and needs.

In addition, focus groups of Accord owners, intenders and rejectors were conducted throughout the U.S. From these focus groups, product planners and designers were able to better understand the priorities of the Accord buyer, what they liked about the Accord and what they disliked.

From their research, the planners and engineers drew up a set of goals for the new Accord. First, they wanted the new Accord to offer more value for the money than any Accord in the past. A tall order, considering the Accord's history as a value leader in its class.
----------------------------------

LOL... when was the last time any Big 2.5 knocked on your door to give a shit what you thought?? :smilielol:

:beerchug:
 

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Secondly, I bet 80% of the population doesn't understand that many Ford Super Duty trucks are built in Mexico and if they have a diesel, it's from Brazil (the engine). They see one of the Big 3 badges and think they are doing the right thing, at least they are trying.
Ford superdutys are made at kentucky truck. Not sure about the engines you could be right.


Duane[/b]
Duane, you better check your facts or sources.

Starting in summer of 2000, Ford Super Duty trucks were built BOTH in Kentucky AND Mexico. Trust me, I spent many hours with Navistar and Ford people writing the training material for the Ford Techs to use repair Powerstroke Trucks. Anyone with a Super Duty go check your VIN. If the 1st digit is a "3", it's from Mexico.

If you bought one from the Mexico plant and it's a diesel, your engine was built in Brazil. If you bought a diesel from the Kentucky plant, your engine came from Indy.

Now this is the part that SUCKS! The Mexico built Brazil engine Super Duties are better trucks. Why? New equipment. The Brazil Navistar plant is more modern with fresher tooling. Same for the Truck Plant. The paint on a Mexico SD is better because all the paint systems are more modern.

Also, when I was working at my last job back in 2002, we quoted doing some testing for F*** on 26 Powerstroke Engines. 13 from each plant to determine WHY the Brazil ones were so much quieter based on customer complaints. We didn't win the job, the competition did, but it was a concern.

As for employment from the Imports...

I hate to mention this...but the majority of the calls I am getting for interviews and potential jobs are at the Imports. I will not name names, but I will say that they are paying MUCH BETTER than the US Auto Makers. They are flat out insulting with what they want to pay. Less than I was making 12 years ago as a Ford Dealer mechanic :dunno: Yet the imports are competitive and matching what I was making. One of the Japanese car companies are building their North American Research Facility in Farmington. It will employ a lot of people and will be self sufficient. Not having to get an OK from Japan to make decisions. My resume is already to the right people because it was asked for by someone that I worked with in the past from that company on a project at my last employer.

I am trying to hold out for a Domestic job that pays. But if I don't get one by February I will do what I have to for my family, and I will just has hard and efficient as I always have.

There is NO OTHER WAY TO PUT THIS GENTLY. We are now a GLOBAL ECONOMY. And those of us that used to get good pay for a good job are now competing against people that will work for a bowl of rice a day :banghead:
 

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Boys...Boys...Boys...

This isn't rocket science. This is just blatant stupidity and greed. The writing has been on the wall, for the (formerly known as) Big 3, for years.

There are numerous reasons why things are the way they are...overpaid workers, lazy workers, workers taking advantage of a terribly flawed system, insurance premiums, overspending, not watching the road ahead, poor decision making, changing global economy, changing U.S. economy.

Yama is right...and he's also wrong. He is right when he is critical of people who have no American loyalty, but he is wrong about not including himself in the whole hypocrite thing...he choses to ride a Yamaha...right? Very American and very hypocritical.
 

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Ok... that's one car... how many more have that kind of content?? I only see the Impala in these examples lately. Im sure there's more... but it's the bigger point of it all, not any one example. :div20:[/b]
Two of those companies biggest sellers is why I used those two for examples. Should have seen the Toyota salesman's face when I was out on
the lot snapping pictures and writing stuff down. He thought the Toyo's had more North American content than the Chevy's too.

Plus, if I was to average all the model's out between those two companies Toyo would still loose. You know how many 100% Japaneese(sp?)
made vehicles they still produce??? You can still get a Camary, Avalon or Solara that are still built in Japan. Not too mention all the hybrid
vehicles. There is no WAY Toyota trusts American workers to assemble/build those things.......
 

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Yamahauler,
I'm disappointed in you..... you of all people (someone that has been in the business) should know better. You must be bored or just want to stir the pot up .. :frech32:
I've said this before and I will say it again.
When are people going to figure out there is a HUGE difference between assembled/manufactured and the actual engineering and design of a component/vehicle.
That is the smoke screen that the "sheep" keep using when buying thier so-called US assembled/manufactured foreign vehicles.....

....I'm positive there were MANY more American jobs that helped get that car on the road than there are Mexicans in the plant building it or Germans' spending the profits. Where did all the big three jobs go? Ford is cutting what, 30K people this year? I would say it is only a matter time before your stated ratio is turned upside down, if it does in fact exist at all.

Now in the case of the Foriegn vehicles its quited the opposite. The stuff that is done here in the US requires the smallest amount of resources , the assembly and manufactering end of it. How many jobs lost over the last 10 years and why? I don't know much about the auto industry, but your reasoning seems rather over simplified. More jobs have been lost than gained. They had to have gone somewhere, right? Even if they were lost to cheap, efficient foriegn labor practices, it is still a problem, regardless of how many people helped design and build the components the car. It's great that there is still such a local involvement, but still, the remanents of the industry are not enough to support the Michigan economy like it used to. Now I will admit a couple of the foriegn OEM's do have studios and design centers here in the States but it still requires a very small portion of the US workforce. Maybe someday it will change, who knows but believing your US assembled/manufactured car is helping more Americans is truly a joke and the smoke and mirror show you are getting is totally decieving you.
This isn't about where the profits go or any bullshit like that , this is about AMERICAN JOBS, and not just in the plants.

Yamahauler,
No hard feelings okay :beerchug: You know how I feel on this topic and why.[/b]
O.K. I've deleted some of the original post just for lengths sake, but kept the part I want to address. BTW, My 95 F150 has 165K miles and I don't give a shit where it was made (Sticker says KC, Mo though if I did care).
 
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