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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just wondering who would be interested in a forum that would involve a membership with membership fee where a portion of that fee would be used to purchase items that would be independantly tested and recorded of all relevent data of real world testing with the results to be posted for all membership to see. The memebership could vote on what products to purchase and test and when the product is finished testing it could be offered to the membership first or in the event of not so good results sold via classifieds or ebay.

I for one would rather invest in a smaller fee to test these prodcuts out then to have to buy them to find out differently and get stuck with them. This to me would eliminate any questions as to information being provided by the suppliers who say everything they make works, would eliminate lots of the so called slams on here and also would be a watchdog to the suppliers and end a lot of the crap that is being peddled.

Would you not want to know how this clutch kit or that clutch kit really works, or how this pipe or that pipe works, or this mod or that mod??????????????????

Anyone???????????? Thoughts???????????????

ptm
 

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Not a bad idea if we all lived in the same town and rode in the same conditions and elevation. There is just to many variables as to clutching and set ups and after market goodies. What works for one guy @ 3000' would not be the same for me @ sea level. I guess is what I am trying to say is that what works for one guy won't for the next. There is no real way to get to the bottom of what works and what does not other than individual trial and error. However I find this forum very informative for a lot of the aftermarket stuff out there if you can translate truth from farse. Just my opinion....
 

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I think this could possibly work with a few exceptions.

1. Whoever performed the test will need to be very organized. All testing conditions would have to be called out i.e. Temperature, humidity, sea level, wind speed, snow conditions, etc.

2. I would never join this forum cause I don't have a Firecat. So your crowd is limited because you exclude a lot of people.

3. There is always the issue of some stock sleds being faster than others. It happens all the time. So a certain mod on one sled may not yield the exact results on the next one.

Just a few of my thoughts, I'm sure there's more, but after 3 you gotta pay for them! :dance2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Firecat119

I see what you are saying but lets look at a pipe for instance. They do not make a pipe for different altitudes for the Firecat. You buy a pipe test it at whatever elevation noting it, clutching it accordingly and get the results. I rather invest a small amount of money knowing who ever did the testing knew how to clutch and got the best results they could to see if it worked or not. Timers, radar, side by side real world testing. Not what the HP is suppose to be what it really works like in the real world. Who knows maybe they even come up with a small change that works even better.

The same can be said for many many products including say the "Y: pipe, pipe mods, clutch kits etc. Some like Dan ODS I know gets your weight and deciphers what you need but not everyone does that. Usually that is sublte changes that even if it was for a sled with a driver weight of 200 lbs it either works or it does not.

Just thinking out loud.

ptm
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by Scooter Magavin@Oct 6 2005, 11:43 AM
I think this could possibly work with a few exceptions. 

1.  Whoever performed the test will need to be very organized.  All testing conditions would have to be called out i.e. Temperature, humidity, sea level, wind speed, snow conditions, etc.

2.  I would never join this forum cause I don't have a Firecat.  So your crowd is limited because you exclude a lot of people. 

3.  There is always the issue of some stock sleds being faster than others.  It happens all the time.  So a certain mod on one sled may not yield the exact results on the next one. 

Just a few of my thoughts, I'm sure there's more, but after 3 you gotta pay for them!  :dance2:
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I agree and all information would have to be noted. It will not be easy and it is not just for Firecats and its products. This would be a vote amung membership to what product is purchased and tested.

Not easy to do but in a perfect world I would love to let the chips fall where they may on a lot of the stuff that is out there. These forums while being informative can also be a money pit for many preying on unknowledgable people who simply beleive because this is what he says it has to be that way. As Looney said and I think many have been there it is so easy to buy every friggin gimmick out there and then where do most end up. I guess you stop doing that when you get older or money runs out. No one said trying to be fast was for smart people.

ptm
 

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Originally posted by puddytatman@Oct 6 2005, 12:50 PM
I agree and all information would have to be noted. It will not be easy and it is not just for Firecats and its products. This would be a vote amung membership to what product is purchased and tested.

Not easy to do but in a perfect world I would love to let the chips fall where they may on a lot of the stuff that is out there. These forums while being informative can also be a money pit for many preying on unknowledgable people who simply beleive because this is what he says it has to be that way. As Looney said and I think many have been there it  is so easy to buy every friggin gimmick out there and then where do most end up. I guess you stop doing that when you get older or money runs out. No one said trying to be fast was for smart people.

ptm
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And this is where the saying, "Some people have more money than brains" comes from.
 

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Actually I think this would be a great idea! I really enjoyed the test that Rob did on the SLP and other skiis enough that it very much swayed my purchase to the slp powder pros. They were a huge improvement and likely the best purchase I made for my F8. There would have to be preameters set and also an unbiased observer for all tests for recording. Should work!

Great idea Stan!

Jester :div20: :fluffy:
 

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Originally posted by Scooter Magavin@Oct 6 2005, 12:51 PM
And this is where the saying, "Some people have more money than brains" comes from.
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Well, as I got older I got wiser, I think. :dunno: Actually, I hit my credit limit. :smilielol: Sounds like a great deal Stan but the only problem is personal bias's with companies. Just because someone can't get a D&D or Bikeman product to work in their sled, doesn't mean I can't make it work in mine. Doesn't make me any smarter, maybe I have more resources than the other test guy. That's what an independent magazine should do for us, but there aren't any out there that probably can do it in the short time frame of winter. I can test stuff all day long at the race track on asphalt, but it may not work as well in the snow, or vice versa. It's a good idea, we just need a totally unbiased way to do it. Come up with the plan Stan! I'm a poet and didn't even know it. :wut60:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by looneytune@Oct 6 2005, 12:19 PM
Well, as I got older I got wiser, I think. :dunno:  Actually, I hit my credit limit. :smilielol: Sounds like a great deal Stan but the only problem is personal bias's with companies. Just because someone can't get a D&D or Bikeman product to work in their sled, doesn't mean I can't make it work in mine. Doesn't make me any smarter, maybe I have more resources than the other test guy. That's what an independent magazine should do for us, but there aren't any out there that probably can do it in the short time frame of winter. I can test stuff all day long at the race track on asphalt, but it may not work as well in the snow, or vice versa. It's a good idea, we just need a totally unbiased way to do it. Come up with the plan Stan! I'm a poet and didn't even know it. :wut60:
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Bill

I too got older and wiser............ i think...........not really sure but the smell fo c12 does that to you............lol

I think if you have a capable tuner or a group of cappable tuners of which there are many on this forum including yourself bolt on products should not be a problem getting to work afterall they are suppose to be bolt on and go. With the suppliers input as to what they expect is needed to be used with that product it either will work for you or it does not. This is real world like the average guy on this forum who buys this stuff and bolts it on and cant make it go so no difference except this forum would have a group of knowledgable tuners that could input into giving accurate testing results.

This would have to be totally independant and unbiased and would be difficult but it can be done. Yes some magainzines are suppose to do that but as we all know this does not happen and the stories I could tell about that. It may bring some bad press to those doing the testing but in another light just think how this would eliminate those prodcuts that dont work that should not be there in the first place. On the other hand if you got them to work this would also be welcomed to the supplier if they happen to miss out on some tuning tips.

Can you imagine being a member to a forum that actually shares info on how to set up things to work or to find out buyer beware of this product because despite the claims of the supplier with all our experts we could not make this product work in the real world.

Just think of this how many of us bought things that sounded so good it had to work. Well it is not that it did not work but it did not make any improvement but cost me money that I did not need to spend. I can name a handfull of those products right now.

Which is it - kinda like the lottery ...................just imagine............ Or is it............ if you build it they will come.

Which is it I ask?????????????????

ptm
 

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This sounds like a great idea but something that I wouldn't be really interested in.

How would you do the testing? Would it be strictly times or max speeds or overall trail riding? Where would you do the testing? Low elevation? High elevation? Just too many variables to work.

Its a great idea, especially on a regional level.

Oh, when I win the powerball I'll set up a magazine and do this testing. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by bluebear@Oct 6 2005, 01:27 PM
This sounds like a great idea but something that I wouldn't be really interested in.

How would you do the testing?  Would it be strictly times or max speeds or overall trail riding?  Where would you do the testing?  Low elevation?  High elevation?  Just too many variables to work.

Its a great idea, especially on a regional level.

Oh, when I win the powerball I'll set up a magazine and do this testing. :)
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Bluebear

With all due respect I think many including you are the perfect candidate for this type of information. Just as an example ONLY we will use the pipe mod. If this pipe mod was acquired by the group and sent out to be field tested it would be tested as I said earlier in all applications of riding which the majority of the riders on these forums are. Testing on the trail, lake, ditch banging, corner to corner with some line em up and go and the odd radar. This mod either works or it does not or it is no different than the stock set up. We dont care about HP numbers we care about how it performs in the field just like you, me and the next guy who will buy this mod, put it on, do the things that the supplier suggests and go out and give her.

Now think about this a lot of guys will say it does not work because they could not make it work. It would be hoped that the group of experts used to do the testing might be able to experiment with things the other guys could not to make it work. Now you have a mod that works but you need to do this and that which at the same time may cost you more and at the end of the day you may say well to do this I need to not only do this but that and in the end cost me so much and not as advertised or it just plain out works and I am buying it.

I think everyone can benefit from testing like this. It would take a lot of organization and thought but what does not. It iwll require someone to be not of normal way of doing things and to step out of the box but I think this is great info that anyone would want and benefit from. I know a lot of my buds and i do this every year with stuff so we can see for ourselves.


As this topic goes on more things come to mind and I am sure a lot of people could impact on how to do it. Say have a group of snowmobilers that can tune that live in different areas of different types of riding. Send certian things to certian areas for test and feed back. If it dont work with group a send it to group b.

I dont know how exactly to do it but I like the idea


ptm
 

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Originally posted by puddytatman@Oct 6 2005, 02:24 PM
As this topic goes on more things come to mind and I am sure a lot of people could impact on how to do it. Say have a group of snowmobilers that can tune that live in different areas of different types of riding. Send certian things to certian areas for test and feed back. If it dont work with group a send it to group b.

I dont know how exactly to do it  but I like the idea
ptm
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I think it is a great idea if you can get people in different areas, elevations, etc to test. Have a drag racer, a trail rider, a ditch banger, a radar runner, etc in each area so they can say what a product does for different riding styles.

I would think that you could get an aftermarket company who stands behind their product to donate or discount a product to have it independently tested.

Another question I have is do you need a new forum or could you use an existing one? For arguments sake could you start a "Product Testing" section of HCS or Snowest or Amsnow or Arctic Chat or Doo Talk or......? I would think the existing membership and reputation of the sites would help it to recieve credibility right away.

Keep the ideas coming PTM, this has a future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by bluebear@Oct 6 2005, 02:34 PM
I think it is a great idea if you can get people in different areas, elevations, etc to test.  Have a drag racer, a trail rider, a ditch banger, a radar runner, etc in each area so they can say what a product does for different riding styles.

I would think that you could get an aftermarket company who stands behind their product to donate or discount a product to have it independently tested.

Another question I have is do you need a new forum or could you use an existing one?  For arguments sake could you start a "Product Testing" section of HCS or Snowest or Amsnow or Arctic Chat or Doo Talk or......?  I would think the existing membership and reputation of the sites would help it to recieve credibility right away.

Keep the ideas coming PTM, this has a future.
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See the more we talk about this the more we like it and the better the ideas come. An existing forum would be good and who better then to see if they wanted or were interested in this type of thing then our very own fearless leader of HCS Rob. I have to admit he thinks outside the box and this will take some outside the box thinking. He could moderate at arms length with the donations lets say of the members to that particular forum remaining separate from HCS so to say to keep the sponsors from objecting to this. I think the ones that would object are the ones that would be worried. It would be hoped that all products tested would be good because that is what we are told. Now factor in a site like SnowWest where the majority are mountain guys there is the moutain testing is done.

Who knows an idea liek this may spread like wild fire. The internet is a powerful place so why not use it to not only advertise but to investigate and prove the advertisement. I dont know about you but I value th emoney I earn and want to invest in this losign market of snowmobile aftermarket parts and components to limit my loses not greaten them

Think outside the box.

ptm
 

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This is a good idea, but I did try to get it going at different times. During the firecat.info days we had a few members write up some great reviews..they are still on the site somewhere..Jay did a few great writeups and Ziggy's cart was there too. Trouble was it takes a LOT of work, and the idea just fizzled after a bit. Another try was the HCS "reviews" section. This was a dedicated area of the site where members could post feedback on any item they wished. It really never got off the ground, although a few members really tried. Most never read it at all. After we had some software bugs with the program, we gave it up.

Ideas like this are really hard to deploy when it comes right down to the nuts and bolts of it. I'd be willing to give it another go if we come up with a different way to slice it, but as PTM said, it would really take some new thinking.
 

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i would have to say that damn near everyproduct offered, someone on here has or is going to buy. I think thiw whole website is a product test forum. I don't see the need for a group of people to chip in on the idea when the whole forum is trying different things. Just imo.

FF
 

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I am really interested and it is a great idea ..............................................................................un
il the first test rider says a paticular product or service does not work .............then you will probably be tied to a pole and beaten with sticks and every member on here will destroy your credibility to the point that you feel you living out a scene from the Passion of the Christ. :smilielol: Other than that I'm all for it . :div20:
 

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sound like a good idea just need to make up a good list of rule for testing and getting a starting baseline
 

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i think it would be really cool to have something like this. Could be very very helpful!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Originally posted by dead1dave@Oct 6 2005, 07:27 PM
I am really interested and it is a great idea ..............................................................................un
il the first test rider says a paticular product or service does not work .............then you will probably be tied to a pole and beaten with sticks and every member on here will destroy your credility to the point that you feel you living out a scene from the Passion of the Christ.  :smilielol: Other than that I'm all for it .  :div20:
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Dave

Been there done that and the way I look at it is if that is the way it is only those who cry foul are the losers. It is not hard to see it all come out in the wash when the snow flies and trust me when I say I have seen the stance change dramatically when the real world results came in.

I say it is worth looking into doing or at least seeing how to set the frame work up and see who would be interested to make it work. You would be a perfect candidate for a testing guy as your knowledge is proven.

Everyone can stand to learn a little more and in the end if people dont like the results then go buy it and learn the hard way. We see that happen every day.

tpm
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Originally posted by rob@Oct 6 2005, 05:32 PM
This is a good idea, but I did try to get it going at  different times. During the firecat.info days we had a few members write up some great reviews..they are still on the site somewhere..Jay did a few great writeups and Ziggy's cart was there too. Trouble was it takes a LOT of work, and the idea just fizzled after a bit. Another try was the HCS "reviews" section. This was a dedicated area of the site where members could post feedback on any item they wished. It really never got off the ground, although a few members really tried. Most never read it at all. After we had some software bugs with the program, we gave it up.

Ideas like this are really hard to deploy when it comes right down to the nuts and bolts of it. I'd be willing to give it another go if we come up with a different way to slice it, but as PTM said, it would really take some new thinking.
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Rob

Thank you for your reply. I was not aware of all of this and I can see if the devotion and following is not there it will fizzle. The trick is to have the right set up and following so everyone will want to follow and read. Outside the box approach definetly and if you or anyone else cares to see how this can be done I think this could be a valuable tool on any interent site.

I am going to put some thought to this and expand on it in the next few days. Our turkey time this weekend so got a few things planned so while I am sitting so happily with the inlaw my mind will be clicking on this.

There is an old saying which really applies to what is trying to be acheived and that is " you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink ". To me you can inform people all you want but if they dont want to listen it is not going to matter.

ptm
 
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