[burned]

The Province of Ontario has put out a blanket speed limit on any snowmobiles and any trails of 50KPH. Sudbury News - Police patrolling area snowmobile trails

If a council of a municipality wants to go above or below that, they can, but I'll bet my sled that they first have to go to the MTO, make a case of why they want to change the speed limit, and then change it if and when they get the permission. It's at that time, that signage would be required.

One thing you don't realize and something that I thought you would catch on to, is that there isn't ANY speed limits on a lake trail that I can find or any laws that govern the speed of ice roads in the Province of Ontario.

Ontario says, although the law is somewhat nebulous, the maximum speed of a snowmobile is 50KPH period. IF a change is required or desired, then you must be a legal or chartered representative of the area, such as a legal body (municipal council) and meet the necessary requirements to change that speed.

Once again, you fail to address or comment on any questions that I'm asking you. You know, there's nothing wrong in just saying "I really don't know".

No, l'm not a cop nor am I lawyer, but I do have some writing skills that I aquired during my years of employment.

I also DO NOT propose or make pronouncements on what I don't know what I'm talking about. Read the MTO website and you will get some information that is accurate and concise - not "trail rider hearsay".

I haven't seen nor am I privy to the agreement between the OFSC, MTO or Province of Ontario. If you read between the lines of the MSVA, you will quickly see that it is a VERY GRAY area (actually non-existent) regarding any information that directly addresses whether or not there are any speeds that are above the 50KPH. The 50KPH provincial requirement as present, is being used to satisfy that segment of the OFSC requirements.

If you asks the MTO, local police, town councils, OPP or anyone who has the ability to enforce or make changes to laws, the best you will get when asking about lake speeds for a snowmobile is the 50KPH answer.

My personal belief is that the OFSC has us advertise the trail speeds to remind us that the maximum provincial speed limit for riders in Ontario is 50KPH. My personal belief is that this is being done to get an agreement with our insurer visa vi Risk Management.

My advice to you as it has been in the past is this. DON'T put out information (much like you have chastised another poster for doing) of which you really don't know or can satisfactorily back it up with a direct reference to an existing example. When you do that you confuse the hell of most riders who are more interested riding than reading.

One other thing, the place to ask for this type of information is better served by getting your local snowmobile club to make the inquiry. That way more riders than just yourself will have that information, it will come from a recognized body (club executive) and it will also keep your clubs out of trouble.

You might also ask your insurance company how they would or would not cover you if in fact it was proven that you were driving at a rate well over the 50KPH on a lake, river, etc.. You might also want to ask if you are covered if you run into a car, truck, etc. on an ice road.

My apologies for this lengthy missive BUT sometimes it's necessary.

It is very simple, a lake is NOT an OFSC PRESCRIBED TRAIL, sorry but that is just the way it is.

 

[toban]

When you find out which public trail in Ontario is regulated to 80KMH, let me know.............

 

[burned]

OFSC stake lines on lakes are not PRESCIBED TRAILS, you seem to think they are and have no clue what you are talking about.Sudbury has a bylaw passed by city council restricting speeds on lakes to 80kmh after dark. Again I will ask you why would they do such a thing if we already have a limit of 50kmh? Think before you answer.

 

[burned]

The Regional Municipality of
Sudbury
BY-LAW 93-1​

WHEREAS The Motorized Snow Vehicles Act R.S.O. 1990 Chapter M.44 Subsection 7(2) provides that the Council of a local municipality may pass by-laws regulating, governing or prohibiting the operation of motorized snow vehicles within the municipality including any highways therein or any part or parts thereof;
AND WHEREAS the Council of __________ of __________ deems it desirable to regulate, govern and prohibit the operation of motorized snow vehicles within the municipality;
NOW THEREFORE the Council of __________ of __________ ENACTS AS FOLLOWS:
Definitions
1. In this By-law,
area municipality;
means area municipality as defined in the Regional Municipality of Sudbury Act, R.S.O. 1990 Chapter R.166, as amended;
bush;
means unoccupied wooded area where traveling would not require permission;
highway;
Includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridges, viaduct, or trestle, and any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof;
idle;
means the running of a snowmobile engine without moving the snowmobile or engaging the clutch thereof;
motorized snow vehicle;
means a self-propelled vehicle designed to be driven primarily on snow;
municipality;
means The Corporation of the Town of __________;
night;
means the time period from 2 hour before sunset to 2 hour after sunrise;
person;
be defined as including singular or plural or female or male gender;
private property;
includes all property in the municipality except crown land and highways;
publicly owned parkland;
includes any land or premises under the control and management of the municipality;
race;
means any competition of speed between two or more snowmobiles and/or drivers thereof;
refuel;
means the refilling either partially or wholly of any snowmobile fuel tank;
roadway;
means the part of the highway that is improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic, but does not include the shoulder, and, where a highway includes two or more separate roadways, the term roadway refers to any one roadway separately and not to all of the roadways collectively;
sidewalk;
means a path or strip of land paved or otherwise in, on or alongside a highway and designed and intended for or used by the general public for pedestrian travel. In addition, sidewalk includes any property of the municipality that is, or hereafter may be, physically set apart or made available and intended for pedestrian use;
trail;
means the whole of any trail established and maintained by a recreational organization and any permitted trails utilized for the purpose of gaining access to established trails, for the use of motorized snow vehicle.
2. 1. No person shall operate a motorized snow vehicle upon any highway under the jurisdiction of the municipality listed in Schedule A of this by-law.
2. 2. Nothing shall prohibit the operation of a motorized snow vehicle upon a trail located on a highway.
3. Except as herein permitted, no person shall operate a motorized snow vehicle on private property within the municipality except when authorized to do so by the owner or occupier of the private property concerned.
4. No person shall operate or park a motorized snow vehicle in any publicly owned parkland, except in the areas designated by the municipality for motorized snow vehicle use.
5. No person shall park in any publicly owned parkland a motorized snow vehicle between twelve midnight and seven in the forenoon, unless at an event approved by the municipality.
6. Subject to Section 8, no person shall operate a motorized snow vehicle on any sidewalk.
7. On those highways on which the operation of a motorized snow vehicle is permitted by this by-law, no person shall operate a motorized snow vehicle except for the purpose of directly gaining access to or from a trail, the bush, tree line or open area.
8. No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle across a roadway except at an angle of approximately ninety degrees to the direction of the roadway and only after the driver of such vehicle has ascertained that such movement can be made in safety.
9. Except as herein permitted, no person shall operate a motorized snow vehicle within the boundaries of the municipality, after the hour of twelve o'clock midnight nor before the hour of seven o'clock in the forenoon of the following day, other than for emergency purposes or for the purpose of going directly to a specific destination.
10. No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle, at a greater speed than:
(a) 20 kilometers per hour,
(i) on a highway where the speed limit established pursuant to the Highway Traffic Act is 50 kilometers or less, or
(ii) in any publicly owned parkland, or
(b) 50 kilometers per hour,
(i) on any highway which is open to motor vehicle traffic, where the speed limit established pursuant to the Highway Traffic Act is greater than 50 kilometers per hour, or
(ii) on a trail.
11. No person having care and control of a motorized snow vehicle shall deposit or cause to be deposited any material, material likely to become litter, or litter.
12. The driver of a motorized snow vehicle shall not follow a vehicle, including a motorized snow vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent having due regard for the speed or the motorized snow vehicle, other traffic and conditions generally.
13. Every driver of a motorized snow vehicle, shall obey the instructions and directions indicated on any sign erected pursuant to the provisions and regulations of the Motorized Snow Vehicle Act.
14. No person shall operate a motorized snow vehicle on any frozen body of water at night in excess of 80 km/h.
15. No person shall engage in, or organize a snowmobile race unless approved in advance by the Council of the Municipality.
16. No person shall refuel a motorized snow vehicle on any frozen body of water.
17. No person shall repair a motorized snow vehicle on any frozen body of water.
18. No person shall idle or permit to idle a motorized snow vehicle engine for a period exceeding five minutes on any frozen body of water.
19. 1. No person shall operate a motorized snow vehicle unless it is equipped with a muffler in good working condition.
19. 2. No person shall operate a motorized snow vehicle which has a muffler cutout, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, Hollywood muffler by-pass or similar device, alteration or modification upon it.
19. 3. Sub-sections (1) and (2) shall not apply to a motorized snow vehicle while it is driven in a race approved by the Council of the Municipality.

​

​

SCHEDULE A​

​

BY-LAW 93-1​

NO PERSON SHALL OPERATE A MOTORIZED SNOW VEHICLE ON THE FOLLOWING HIGHWAYS:

FOR THE CORPORATION
OF THE TOWN OF
CAPREOL​

​

- YOUNG STREET from FRONT STREET to BLOOR STREET, crossing of CNR Right-Of-Way

​

FOR THE CORPORATION
OF THE TOWN OF
WALDEN​

LIVELY-​

MAIN STREET (Central Business District)​

FOR THE CORPORATION
OF THE TOWN OF
NICKEL CENTRE​

GARSON​

​

- FALCONBRIDGE ROAD to CHURCH STREET
- CHURCH STREET
- GARSON-CONISTON ROAD
- MAKI ROAD
- SPRUCE STREET
- ORELL STREET
- BIRCH STREET
​

CONISTON

- SECOND AVENUE
- GOVERNMENT ROAD
- EDWARD STREET
- BANCROFT DRIVE
​

FOR THE CORPORATION
OF THE TOWN OF
ONAPING FALLS​

LEVACK WARD

- NICKEL STREET (from the eastern boundary of Plan M-1009 to THIRD AVENUE NORTH
- LEVACK DRIVE
- THIRD AVENUE NORTH and SOUTH
- FIRST AVENUE SOUTH to COPPER STREET
- COPPER STREET from FIRST AVENUE to SECOND AVENUE SOUTH
- CARTER STREET
​

ONAPING WARD

- PINE STREET
- ONAPING PLAZA, MUNICIPAL Right-Of-Way, Block​

AB@ of Plan M-576
​

DOWLING

- Parking lot in front of Dowling Arena
- SERVICE ROAD between the Dowling Arena and Dowling Community Centre

​

FOR THE CORPORATION
OF THE TOWN OF
RAYSIDE-BALFOUR​

AZILDA

- ST. AGNES from MONTCALM STREET to BRABANT STREET
​

CHELMSFORD

- EDWARD AVENUE from HWY 144 to MAIN STREET

​

FOR THE CORPORATION
OF THE CITY OF
SUDBURY​

No person or persons shall operate a motorized snow vehicle at any time in any area zoned, central business district, in accordance with any zoning by-law, then in effect in the Corporation of the City of Sudbury.
SUDBURY

- LASALLE BLVD. east of NOTRE DAME AVENUE
- LASALLE BLVD. west of FALCONBRIDGE ROAD
- NOTRE DAME AVENUE
- THE KINGSWAY
- BARRYDOWNE ROAD north of KINGSWAY
- BARRYDOWNE ROAD south of LILLIAN
- FALCONBRIDGE ROAD
- SECOND AVENUE
- BANCROFT DRIVE west of SECOND AVENUE
- LORNE STREET
- REGENT STREET
- PARIS STREET
- RAMSEY LAKE ROAD
- HOWEY DRIVE
- FROOD ROAD
- KATHLEEN STREET
- BELLEVUE
- KELLY LAKE ROAD
- BOUCHARD
- MARTINDALE ROAD
- YORK STREET
- SOUTHVIEW DRIVE
- WALFORD ROAD between REGENT and PARIS STREET
- CENTENNIAL DRIVE
- RAMSEY VIEW COURT
​

COPPER CLIFF

- POWER STREET from HWY 17 to BALSAM STREET
- BALSAM STREET from HWY 17 to GODFREY
- GODFREY STREET from POWER to CLIFF STREET
- MARKET STREET from GODFREY DR to POWER STREET
- SERPENTINE STREET from MARKET to DIORITE STREET

​

FOR THE CORPORATION
OF THE CITY OF
VALLEY EAST​

VAL CARON
- THIRD AVENUE

Set fines

​

ITEM​

​

​

DESCRIPTION OF OFFENCE​

​

​

SECTION​

​

​

SET FINE
Includes Court Cost of $5.00​

​

​

1​

Operate motorized snow vehicle upon a highway​

2(1)​

​

$ 105.00​

​

2​

Operate motorized snow vehicle on private property without authority​

3​

​

$ 80.00​

​

3​

Operate motorized snow vehicle in publicly owned parkland in area not designated​

4​

​

$ 55.00​

​

4​

Park motorized snow vehicle in publicly owned parkland in area not designated​

4​

​

$ 55.00​

​

5​

Park motorized snow vehicle in publicly owned parkland between 12:00 midnight and 7:00 a.m.​

5​

​

$ 55.00​

​

6​

Operate motorized snow vehicle on sidewalk​

6​

​

$ 105.00​

​

7​

Operate motorized snow vehicle on a highway for purpose other than accessing a trail, bush, treeline or open area​

7​

​

$ 105.00​

​

THE PENALTY PROVISION FOR THE OFFENCES INDICATED ABOVE IS SECTION 21 OF THE CITY OF SUDBURY BYLAW 93-1, A CERTIFIED COPY OF WHICH HAS BEEN FILED​

​

​

ITEM​

​

​

DESCRIPTION OF OFFENCE​

​

​

SECTION​

​

​

SET FINE
Includes Court Cost of $5.00​

​

​

8​

Operate motorized snow vehicle between 12:00 midnight and​

7:00 a.m.​

9​

​

$ 55.00​

​

​

9
Operate motorized snow vehicle on frozen body of water at night in excess of 80 km/hr
14
$ 105.00​

10​

Organize unapproved motorized snow vehicle race​

15​

​

$ 105.00​

​

11​

Race motorized snow vehicle​

15​

​

$ 105.00​

​

12​

Refuel motorized snow vehicle on frozen body of water​

16​

​

$ 80.00​

​

13​

Repair motorized snow vehicle on frozen body of water​

17​

​

$ 80.00​

​

14​

Idle motorized snow vehicle on frozen body of water more than five (5) minutes​

18​

​

$ 80.00​

​

15​

Permit motorized snow vehicle to idle on frozen body of water more than five (5) minutes​

18​

​

$ 80.00​

​

16​

Operate motorized snow vehicle muffler not in good working condition​

19(1)​

​

$ 80.00​

​

17​

Operate motorized snow vehicle muffler cut out, gutted, by passed, altered or modified​

19(2)​

​

$ 80.00​

etc. ​

​

 

[terez]

Holy Fawk! The city of Sudbury needs an Enema!!

No reasonable person could ever be expected to be aware of such a convoluted specific set of laws nor could the city possibly sign the trails to advise of such constipated nonense.

You can always be subjected/harrassed with bylaw infractions as there is no way to be aware of them, they are cooked up locally and passed into law arbitrarily and are rarely if ever appropriately signed.

Good thing it's bylaw and not Real law. Catch me if ya can (unlikely) and U can have the $80 or whatever the bylaw infraction amounts to.

There are NO OFSC "trails" on any body of water. Some trails end at water and there are pickets to indicate suggested possible safe directions of travel....trails they ain't. Any signage would be informational and not regulatory which speed signage is.

Large bodies of water are one of the last bastions of freedom for motorized recreation (frozen or not) wrt speed. Won't be long I'm sure till the legal machine grinds this up too.

When I encounter a pedestrian standing in the path of my snowmobile I always give them a very wide berth for their safety and continue in my direction of travel and focus on maintaining control of my machine while monitoring the frozen surface for hazards.......Stopping in this case would not be prudent and in fact would possibly risk my safety given the constantly fluid nature of any frozen body of water.
Seems a reasonable response to any challenge of why didn't you stop?


This htread is simply representative of how badly we are all "Jonse'ing" for actual sledding instead of internet sledding!!lol We ALL need to get out and sled and stop slaggin' each other!!!!!!
I can't believe I got caught up in this thread...but alas..I AM Jonse'ing for snow..... BAD!

 

[mofd-cat]

I will never go there and spend any money/cash

Holy Fawk! The city of Sudbury needs an Enema!!

No reasonable person could ever be expected to be aware of such a convoluted specific set of laws nor could the city possibly sign the trails to advise of such constipated nonense.

You can always be subjected/harrassed with bylaw infractions as there is no way to be aware of them, they are cooked up locally and passed into law arbitrarily and are rarely if ever appropriately signed.

Good thing it's bylaw and not Real law. Catch me if ya can (unlikely) and U can have the $80 or whatever the bylaw infraction amounts to.

There are NO OFSC "trails" on any body of water. Some trails end at water and there are pickets to indicate suggested possible safe directions of travel....trails they ain't. Any signage would be informational and not regulatory which speed signage is.

Large bodies of water are one of the last bastions of freedom for motorized recreation (frozen or not) wrt speed. Won't be long I'm sure till the legal machine grinds this up too.

When I encounter a pedestrian standing in the path of my snowmobile I always give them a very wide berth for their safety and continue in my direction of travel and focus on maintaining control of my machine while monitoring the frozen surface for hazards.......Stopping in this case would not be prudent and in fact would possibly risk my safety given the constantly fluid nature of any frozen body of water.
Seems a reasonable response to any challenge of why didn't you stop?


This htread is simply representative of how badly we are all "Jonse'ing" for actual sledding instead of internet sledding!!lol We ALL need to get out and sled and stop slaggin' each other!!!!!!
I can't believe I got caught up in this thread...but alas..I AM Jonse'ing for snow..... BAD!

I will go els where to spend my cash.

 

[burned]

Toban is out there putting up stop signs on lakes while he OFSC puts out these safety tips......

No Ice is Safe…​

Despite What They May Say!​

(Barrie, ON. January 4, 2010)​

​

​

​

​

- “They say the ice is safe.” That’s the mysterious rumour often
circulated at this time of year among the outdoor fraternity; no one knows who “they” are
or where their misinformation started. But in the early weeks of every winter, a few
outdoor enthusiasts take it as gospel and have close calls or pay with their lives, as
occurred this past weekend in central Ontario. Consequently, the Ontario Federation of
Snowmobile Clubs (OFSC) reminds everyone yet again that no ice can be considered
100% safe for travel by any motorized recreational vehicles or trucks, especially at this
time of year.
To avoid ice risks, the OFSC recommends that snowmobilers ride open, land-based,
OFSC trails whenever possible. OFSC clubs provide many trails that avoid water
crossings altogether and also provide many bridges and culverts to pass over known
water safely.
If you do make the personal choice to travel on ice by snowmobile, wait until a marked
stake line is in place and cross only when you can follow it from shore to shore, without
stopping on the ice. While ice crossing is never a sure thing, snowmobilers can also
reduce their risk by:​

•​

​

​

​

Never travelling on ice because “they” say it is safe.​

•​

​

​

​

Understanding that ice conditions may vary from day to day, from hour to hour and
from place to place.​

•​

​

​

​

Checking ice thickness before riding onto any frozen water. At least 15 centimetres
(6 inches) of clear, hard ice is needed to support one snowmobile.​

•​

​

​

​

Never travelling on ice alone, at night or after consuming alcohol.​

•​

​

​

​

Avoiding slushy ice, untracked ice, or ice near moving water.​

•​

​

​

​

Staying off ice early or late in the season or after any sudden and pronounced melt,
thaw or rain.​

•​

​

​

​

Wearing a buoyant snowmobile suit and carrying ice picks.
Remember, you always enter ice at your own risk; neither the OFSC nor its member
clubs accept any responsibility or liability for ice crossings or variations in ice conditions.
The OFSC is committed to proactive leadership in promoting safe, responsible riding, on
and off Ontario snowmobile trails, by building safer snowmobiling knowledge, attitudes
and behaviours through rider education, safety legislation development and​

enforcement. For more information, visit ofsc.on.ca

 

[toban]

Toban is out there putting up stop signs on lakes while he OFSC puts out these safety tips......

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps something has happened that I know about and you don't?

When it is posted up on HCS, I'll post a note saying "I told you so" and we'll go from there.

 

[burned]

It would have to be legislation, that would be the only way anything to do with speed limits changes on ice, and the simple fact of the matter is, as of this date nothing has changed. Last year you were installing speed limit signage and stop signs on lakes and should not have been. Just admit you are wrong and move on. When laws change we will all be aware of it, it will be no big secret. Further when cops sit at the end of a lake with radar and start handing out fines, that should pretty much destroy the OFSC.

 

[Mike 800 ren X]

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps something has happened that I know about and you don't?

When it is posted up on HCS, I'll post a note saying "I told you so" and we'll go from there.

Did you ever stop to think you are a douche bag :handjob:

give it up!

 

[Cap'n Pete]

It is hard for them to give you a ticket if you don't stop. But you have to be fully committed.

Hard NOT to stop when there is an OPP pick-up parked on the road directly in your path, two OPP officers in the way, and a group of sleds from the on-coming direction blocking the only remaining worm-hole of opportunity!! They were getting their $110, and there wasn't a darn thing I could do about it .

 

[TVBrian]

Ya that's it, great choice... Run from the cops over $110 and put innocent people lives in danger you fucking meat head! And people wonder why the general public think sledders are a bunch of yahoos!

 

[toban]

Did you ever stop to think you are a douche bag :handjob:

give it up!

Now that was a really intelligent response. I kind of forgot what they sounded like or behaved. Thanks, for puttihg yourself up as a reminder.

You are what you have been taught!

 

[burned]

Now that was a really intelligent response. I kind of forgot what they sounded like or behaved. Thanks, for puttihg yourself up as a reminder.

You are what you have been taught!

You have no basis for argument here, yet persist in carrying on with absolutely nothing to substantiate your position. You have failed to provide anything to support what you profess to be fact. This type of behaviour is the trait of a person that is pigheaded and stubborn, one that fails to recognize they are in err and continues to live in a world where delusion prevails. That being said, perhaps you would care to vindicate yourself and share with the rest of the class, your intimate knowledge that only you are privy to. I will gladly recant my position if you can only prove to me, that I am in fact wrong and we do have a secret speed limit on our frozen bodies of water here in Ontario .

 

[toban]

You have no basis for argument here, yet persist in carrying on with absolutely nothing to substantiate your position. You have failed to provide anything to support what you profess to be fact. This type of behaviour is the trait of a person that is pigheaded and stubborn, one that fails to recognize they are in err and continues to live in a world where delusion prevails. That being said, perhaps you would care to vindicate yourself and share with the rest of the class, your intimate knowledge that only you are privy to. I will gladly recant my position if you can only prove to me, that I am in fact wrong and we do have a secret speed limit on our frozen bodies of water here in Ontario .

Well, here's a start. You had better get on the keyboard and tell the OFSC that they had better stop staking water crossings. I'm sure they will be glad that you told them they are doing it all wrong.

Read the Water, Ice Snowmobiling paragraph at the bottom of the image.

I like that word recant. Better get used to saying it.....

 

[toban]

Easy there killer. My mistake, I should have checked my facts. I just went through the MSVA and spoke with a member of the OFSC Executive. Yes you are correct, there is no speed limit during the day. However, according to my contact, if the trail on the lake is maintained (i.e.: groomed, which I realize most aren't) it is considered an OFSC trail and the provincial speed limit is enforceable.

Hey Burned. This poster indicates that he spoke with a member of the OFSC. The OFSC contact advised that it is indeed an OFSC trail and enforceable provided it met the requirements of maintenance, grooming and signage.

So, once again the OFSC is incorrect and you are. You have to have a better reason for saying it's wrong just because YOU say it's wrong.

Riders were beating the tickets on a lake BECAUSE the clubs weren't putting out the little blue and silver (reflective) Prescribed Trail Signs "installed at every intersection with another trail, highway, railway or another crossing, every 5km if no intersection." Ticketed riders had legal counsel whose defence was that the riders didn't know that they were on an OFSC Prescribed Trail for lack of signage.

Prescribed Trail Signs - Legislated Signage – “Prescribed Trail” signs are legislated under Ontario Regulation 185/01 of the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act.

Lake stakes have to be placed 1/10th of a kilometer or closer as per the OFSC trail requirements or club adjustment!

As a minimum, stakes should be installed in a single row when used to divide a maintained lake trail.

Also, any lake trail that is not staked in accordance with the OFSC requirements won't be considered an OFSC trail

This is what is taught at signage courses to trail volunteers and trail bosses. You might want to think about taking a signage course so that you can speak from a position of some authority rather than ignorance.

 

[Nutter]

My buddy must have one wicked fast atv. The cop is wrong, is trying to enforce a non existant law, on all counts. Stake line on a lake is not a prescribed trail of the OFSC, no permit needed, just like thousands of miles of trail on northern roads where even though groomed no enforcement of the permit can take place, even if cars drive on them there is nothing that the police or OFSC can say, unless exclusive permission has been granted. You may not realize that a great number of trails fall into this catagory. They are open public roads that are not plowed by a township or city, exclusive rights cannot be given to snowmobile clubs and therefor anyone can use them with any vehicle that is legally allowed on a public road even though a snowmobile club chooses to sign them and groom them. Toban I suggest you go to that other web site where the OPP save officer answers questions and ask him about speed limits on lakes.

http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/...5370ab95-e5aa-4631-9940-70d3546cea34/2/doc/?search=browseStatutes&context=#hit1

Motorized Snow Vehicles Act
Loi sur les motoneiges
ONTARIO REGULATION 185/01
TRAIL PERMITS
Consolidation Period: From June 13, 2005 to the e-Laws currency date.
Last amendment: O.Reg. 359/05.
This Regulation is made in English only.
Definitions
1. (1) For the purpose of section 2.1 of the Act and this Regulation,
"prescribed trail" means a trail or part of a trail on which a trail permit is required by section 2.1 of the Act and that is operated or maintained by or on behalf of the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs, and includes such a trail or part of a trail that is on Crown land or other public land, but excludes any Crown land or other public land where the operation of motorized snow vehicles is prohibited by law. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 1 (1).
(2) In this Regulation,
"immediate family members" means a person's spouse, sibling, father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, father-in-law or mother-in-law;
"spouse" has the same meaning as in Part III of the Family Law Act. O. Reg. 359/05, s. 1.
Signs on prescribed trails
2. (1) Prescribed trails shall be identified by signs bearing the letters "OFSC" in letters not less than 4.5 centimetres high and the words "Prescribed Trail" in letters not less than 1 centimetre high that are posted,
(a) not more than 5 kilometres from any point along every prescribed trail; and
(b) at every intersection of prescribed trails with any other trail, highway, railway crossing or other crossing. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 2 (1).
(2) The signs shall be retro-reflective and not less than 20 centimetres by 10 centimetres. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 2 (2).
(3) A trail or part of a trail is a prescribed trail whether or not the signs described in this section are posted. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 2 (3).
Trail permits
3. (1) A person shall not be issued a trail permit unless the person completes the application in full and pays the fee established by the Minister. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 3 (1).
(2) A trail permit is valid until the 31st day of May after the date the permit is issued. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 3 (2).
(3) A trail permit shall be affixed to the motorized snow vehicle,
(a) at the bottom edge of the centre of the windshield; or
(b) on top of and to the left of centre of the engine cowling as close as possible to the centre of the windshield, without obscuring or being obscured by the registration number required to be displayed on the vehicle. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 3 (3).
Exemptions
4. Subsections 2.1 (1) and (4) of the Act do not apply to a person belonging to a class of persons listed in Column 1 of the Table only in the circumstances set out opposite the class in Column 2 of the Table and only if the person carries with him or her while driving the motorized snow vehicle on the prescribed trail the documents listed opposite the class in Column 3 of the Table. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 4.

What sledders do on lakes is always up to the officers discretion whether on a stake line or not, charge would be careless operation ..... want to boogy along at a good clip, move over 30 or 40ft from the stake line, and stay away from populated areas of the lake, and theres nothing for a cop to be discretionary about.

 

[burned]

Careless charge can be layed anywhere, for alomost any action that indicates the sled is being operated in a manner that endangers others when the operator shows they are riding in this manner thay should be charged, on or off trail. Stake lines are not presctiberd trails if that is what you are trying to say. You cannot be charged with trespass if riding without a permit on a stake line. Take note of the word LAND in the act.

 

[burned]

Hey Burned. This poster indicates that he spoke with a member of the OFSC. The OFSC contact advised that it is indeed an OFSC trail and enforceable provided it met the requirements of maintenance, grooming and signage.

So, once again the OFSC is incorrect and you are. You have to have a better reason for saying it's wrong just because YOU say it's wrong.

Riders were beating the tickets on a lake BECAUSE the clubs weren't putting out the little blue and silver (reflective) Prescribed Trail Signs "installed at every intersection with another trail, highway, railway or another crossing, every 5km if no intersection." Ticketed riders had legal counsel whose defence was that the riders didn't know that they were on an OFSC Prescribed Trail for lack of signage.

Prescribed Trail Signs - Legislated Signage – “Prescribed Trail” signs are legislated under Ontario Regulation 185/01 of the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act.

Lake stakes have to be placed 1/10th of a kilometer or closer as per the OFSC trail requirements or club adjustment!

As a minimum, stakes should be installed in a single row when used to divide a maintained lake trail.

Also, any lake trail that is not staked in accordance with the OFSC requirements won't be considered an OFSC trail

This is what is taught at signage courses to trail volunteers and trail bosses. You might want to think about taking a signage course so that you can speak from a position of some authority rather than ignorance.

Let the law suits begin, the OFSC is now going to be sued for pressure crack accidents, linepeople falling through ice when a stake is present and the ice opens up overnigh, etc. The last thing any club wants is to assume liability for a trail across a frozen body of water.. You can't have it both ways, and we all know which way smart clubs want it. Bill 101 does not allow the OFSC to put up precribed trail signs wherever they want and assume control over lakes.

 

[howie012]

Lakes hold speed limits as well. The only time there is no speed limit on a lake is if you are off the trail (30ft from center of trail same as a road). Someone else may have to chime in to confirm this but this was the understanding i had.

I think you mean 30 metres off the staked trail or lake