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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was reading the booklet that the DNR hands out when you register your sled. The only thing that is says about night driving is that at speeds above 45 you can out drive your head light. Nothing about any speed changes. How are we suposed to know the laws if its not in writing. What do you guys think?
 

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Nighttime snowmobile speed, DNR

The speed limit applies to all areas statewide from ½ hour after sunset to ½ hour before sunrise. “During this past snowmobile season 69% of our fatal accidents occurred at night and 67% were speed related. It’s a proven fact that night time speeds over 50 m.p.h. greatly reduced your ability to react in time to avoid a collision with a fixed object”, states Gary Eddy, Snowmobile Administrator for the Department of Natural Resources. “The speed limit will assist law enforcement with addressing unsafe night operation and is expected to reduce nighttime crashes which all too often results in injury accidents or fatalities.
 

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it is not in the book, but it is now listed in the statutes and it expires July of 2007 (Wooo-Hooo!!)

here is the statute

350.10 Miscellaneous provisions for snowmobile operation.

(1) No person shall operate a snowmobile in the following
manner:
(a) At a rate of speed that is unreasonable or improper under
the circumstances.
(b) In any careless way so as to endanger the person or property
of another.
© Without complying with all stop signs, yield signs or other
regulatory signs established by rule under s. 350.13 that are
located along snowmobile routes, snowmobile trails or other
established snowmobile corridors that are open to the public.
(d) In such a way that the exhaust and engine noise exceeds the
applicable noise level standard specified in s. 350.095 (2) © or
(d).
(f) On the private property of another without the consent of
the owner or lessee. Failure to post private property does not
imply consent for snowmobile use. Any other motor−driven craft
or vehicle principally manufactured for off−highway use shall at
all times have the consent of the owner before operation of such
craft or vehicle on private lands.
(g) Between the hours of 10:30 p.m. and 7 a.m. when within
150 feet of a dwelling at a rate of speed exceeding 10 miles per
hour.
(gm) During the hours of darkness at a rate of speed exceeding
55 miles per hour. This paragraph does not apply after July 1,
2007.
 

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So will they need to repass the law? Whats the best way to stop it?[/b]

Organize and dispute with the facts. We all know alcohol consumption is to blame for the majority, But those laws already exist.

Plain and simple "you cannot legislate stupidity"

We will need to keep an eye on the new legislation, contact your rep's & senators. And make a showing in madison when the vote comes up.

it worked for ABATE, if we organize we could get the same results hopefully.
 

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is'nt it posed on some trails? I thought I saw a sign somewhere.[/b]
yeah, some trails around the state have their own speed limits which are enforced night or day. The 55 mph speed limit is a statewide limit on all trails. The posted limits you saw are put up in high traffic areas and areas where the trail may not be very wide or dangerous to make them safer.
 

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the club presidents I have spoke to oppose the law. there was rumors of the state trying to impose more strict laws that would really hurt us and allegedly this speed limit was found to be the better of two evils.
It could be all bullshit,

The people that came up with this idea are not snowmobilers, and they have a very hard time understanding snowmobiling. they try to equate this sport to driving a car. I spoke to one of the author's of the bill last year and her response was "why shouldn't you have a speed limit? we have them on our highways, so why should you be allowed to go as fast as you want?"

it is real hard to make a valid point with someone as ignorant as that!

I posted a link last year for everyone on here to find their representative so they could contact them. I even posted a form letter for everyone to sign and mail to them.

Maybe we should start this campaign against the speed limit again right now!!!!

if we state facts from the DNR's own reports it will clearly show that speed above 55 mph is not the primary cause of the deaths they are concerned about.

I think only one death was reported as going faster than 55 at the time of the wreck. lets start a topic and discuss this civilly.

There are some memebers that do not see this speed limit as being a problem and have stated that they like the law. So if we get an anti-speed limit thread started, it would sure be nice if it was kept as a thread to organize and try to defeat this law instead of the nay-sayers arguing with the supporters.

This law has only opened the door for more idiotic legislation efforts to be started.

Does anyone remember the last time they tried a speed limit? that year we set our all-time record for deaths at 39. it did not help save lives then, and it will not help save lives this time.
 

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I'd be willing to bet that the DNR and lawmakers in Madison will claim a huge victory if their night time speed limits actually reduce fatalities this year.

What they won't mention to the public is that it will most likely be due to the poor snow conditions so far this season, and not their laws. But we all know better....

You can't be killed if you can't ride.....Duh!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
G2O, im on the band wagon. Whatever you start I am more than able to help with time.
when the death total question comes up we need to inform people of the no snow situation.
Maybe we can get some clubs to openly promote no speed limit. Let me know what you have in mind G2O.
 

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I say we use the facts provided by the DNR. they listed the factual causes of each death. but then they added their opinion too.

I will link to the final summary from the 05-06 season. I know me and either redxcr440 or octane (I still think they are the same person sometimes) argued heavily on this stating he or them is liking the speed limit idea.

What is happening is that the enforcement needs "probable cause" to make an OWI arrest. and certain issue's prohibit them from making an OWI stop without the suspected violator first breaking a totally different and unrelated law first. So the speed limit gives them a reason to stop for OWI.

it is really screwed up, but somehow Wisconsin has protected the drunken snowmobiler from enforcement for that offense, unless they are being stopped for a different offense (I am having trouble wording this correctly, please have patience)

The summary I am referring to has pie-charts, graphs, and all this wonderful stuff to dazzle the lawmakers. But a simple look at their own charts shows that the majority of the unfortunate deaths are not speed related at all. but on the initial report on every death that was not a drowning, it says speed was the primary cause. they even listed a drowning death as excessive speed being the cause. I would have to disagree totally and state that "Lack of Speed" was the cause because the guy drowned while unssuccesfully skipping water. BTW, his BAC was well over .08 when he died.

I will post inks and stuff later, I got to take a phone call.

Also do a search for my topics last year and early this season on this speed limit crap,. You'll see right away who the members are that like the speed limit.
 

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Why am I being brought into this.....So what if I like or dislike the ruling......So what if octane is my brother....



Hey GTO :i_need_snow:


EDIT
If I remember right.....It didn't bother me either way as I usually don't ride after dark....

You had the heated debate with octane not me..
 

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i personaly dont mind it, at night im lucky to go above 65-70 mph anyways. 55 mph, is there really any dnr or snow patrol people out at night, we ride mostlye from 8:00 pm until whenever we get back
 

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Yes, officers ARE out at night. They nabbed a number of folks on a nearby chain of lakes when they had the night speed limit back in '01. As far as support for the speed limit goes, word is that some of the big clubs in the southern part of the state were pushing the idea and most northern clubs opposed it, so snowmobile clubs are apparently not UNIVERSALLY opposed to a speed limit. I don't care for it myself, but I'm afraid this has ended up being a public relations issue more than anything else. They've even considered banning snowmobiling completely after certain hours (some towns and cities are this way already - even in the heart of sledding country). I'd certainly be willing to take my chances with speed limits than a complete ban.
 

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G2O,

We have agreed to disagree on a number of topics on different threads. You are right on about the fact that the enforcemnet officers have to have probable cause to stop someone and this gives them the ammo that they need to get to the root problem with a majority of the accidents, alcohol. I say give the enforcement people all the ammo they need to help cure the problem of alcohol and snowmobiles. The trails for the most part cannot be ridden safely at 55 during the day, so what persentage of the time will it limit you exceeding the 55 limit at night anyway? With the OWI issues we usually do not ride much after dark anyway. Sometimes it would be nice if you did not have to worry about the "other guy" and be able to enjoy a nice nighttime dinner ride with my wife without the worries.

There are some other issues that need to be considered too. With the noise issues there are some municipalities that have ordinances on the table to limit the times that you are going to be able to ride. The State finally has linked a OWI to your drivers license so that should cut down some too. Either way we need to all take responsibility to lower the number of deaths. Our actions can make a difference next summer when that vote comes back up. If the numbers come down and the OWI arrests go up they may or may not keep the speed limit. Unfortunately I think it is here to stay. You and I may not have been the direct causes of this specific law, but others who ride recklessly after dark and hurt or kill themselves, or worse, someone else who is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Finally, if the new law was set to allow law enforcement to stop more people to check for OWI, so what. If they stop you and you act in a reasonable manner, treat it like no big deal, they let you off for the speeding when you blow noithing into the box. You shake hands, say you are sorry, and you both go on your merry way. In short, No big deal. A very small interuption of your time to help control a problem that is getting out of control.
 

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Yup, G2O and I had a friendly little discussion about it. :)
 
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