I have not had any notification that they are out of funds. We did get a letter stating that if you go beyond you cap you might not be payed,but that is what we have were told at the beginning way back years ago. We have not met our cap so we should still be good to go. Maybe if you went beyond your cap you maybe on your dime? I am going back out tomorrow night I hope we will be reimbursed, if I hear differently I will have to ask the officers of the club what they want to do. My vote would be to keep grooming!
Ride Safely and Ride Right!

 

I heard no reimbursement for grooming after April 10th or after the club hit their cap. Could be the SnoBees hit their cap?

 

I read earlier in the season about how much money vast and clubs were saving due to lower fuel prices this year. Is that not true?

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I read earlier in the season about how much money vast and clubs were saving due to lower fuel prices this year. Is that not true?

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VAST doesn't buy fuel, the grooming clubs and contractors do. We bought ours last summer as it's usually the cheapest point of the year...didn't work this year!

 

It's all in how the club manages their contract. If you have managed it well enough then you will have enough left on it to groom for the remainder of the year without going over the cap. If you didn't manage it very well then you have a choice, either you don't groom and have poor trails or you go out and groom on the clubs dime and don't get reimbursed from VAST.

There is no contingency fund left for clubs that go over their cap so VAST has told us that they can't pay for extra grooming this year (anything over your yearly contract). I believe the funds from the contingency fund were used a few years ago when we had all of the flooding from the hurricanes and spring storms and with membership down they have not been able to replenish it yet.

 

Well...considering the date on the calendar and the extensive grooming with the great snow year it wouldn't surprise me to hear this.


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The VAST grooming fund is not "gone". VAST Trails Administrator Matt Tetreault sent a letter to the Presidents of grooming clubs that there were no additional funds available for grooming beyond the contract dollar cap. There is no "contingency fund" for this season.

The April 10th "deadline" represents an extension of the 16th week of the grooming season. Since the official season end is April 15th, it allows for grooming equipment to maintain the trails a final time to enable members to enjoy freshly groomed conditions the last weekend of the season.

With that said, the reality of the situation is there is still money in the grooming fund. I can attest that Caledonia County Snowmobile Trail Club has not (and will not) hit the contract dollar cap for this season. I know we are not alone. When all of the grooming log sheets statewide are tabulated, there is likely to be some funds available to pay groomers for miles in excess of their contract cap. VAST is taking a responsible position by cautioning grooming clubs and contractors not to exceed their contractual limit expecting guaranteed payment. Any grooming club or contractor that goes over the cap will have to wait for the final numbers to be tabulated before the Board of Directors decides on payment.

I will add that the trails in Vermont were nothing short of excellent this year. All of the efforts of groomers produced the finest trail system in the world. 2015 will go down as the best year in snowmobiling.

All of the funds used in grooming this year was money well spent.

 

Some clubs save their 'club dues' as a contingency.

PH

 

Sno-Bees should have money left...they only groomed down to the B&M Road once a week all season.

 

I haven't this and I'm a club President. Of course we are so far from our cap that it isn't funny. Seven weeks of grooming and we only groomed twice in a week once. This valley sucks.

 

I bought this exact thing up at our last club meeting, (Polar bears) and was informed that our funds were going to get us to April 15th no matter what... i know we have an "interstate" to take care of, and maybe we are allocated more miles than clubs off the main shoot... For them clubs running low (This was a HUGE big deal in NH last year as well).. Groom wisely,. and only when the weather dictates it worth it!....... Ummmm.. my suggestion.. (hehehehehe) groom only on Monday mornings so we have flat trails all week long. :thumbsup:

 

My info came from the Essex County club meeting. Since most clubs in the NEK didn't groom early in the season, they probably have $$$ left on their grooming cap.

 

I'll get an update next thursday at our Club meeting... I'll post it here as well. (probably a new thread)

 

So my question is.. Vast WILL NOT PAY A CLUB TO GROOM BEYOND THERE CAP!! That is a fact.. a.) When did we become nh. or me.?? b) What was my extra $20.00 for??? i was told when i purchased it (tma) funds will go to trails???

 

It has been stated here that some clubs will not hit their cap, so those clubs are all set, and there is a possibility that those that go over the cap MAY get paid, VAST put them on notice that they can not guarantee it.

The TMA increase allowed VAST to pay each club more per mile for their grooming, the price per mile had not been increased for something like 10 years, they were LONG over due for an increase which they got.

I have not ridden Maine, but have ridden NH and NY this season, I will take VT and gladly pay their TMA price. It is a bargain

 

I believe gas prices were higher when the TMA price was decided. And I think it was also stated above that IF they have funds left they'll pay clubs. I think they have all the grooming funds allocated as if each club hit their max during the season. Since this doesn't happen, some money that would have gone to clubs that didn't meet the max could go to clubs that go over, although how much is an unknown so clubs need to know they MIGHT not get reimbursed.

 

Clubs that groom sign a contract. They accept the terms before the season begins. They also receive a payment before the season begins to give them start up money.

Once they reach the monetary cap of their contract, they need to notify the VAST Trails Administrator and see if they can continue to be paid for the additional miles over the contract cap. VAST does not have a "Contingency Fund" to pay for overages in grooming having exhausted the fund to pay for millions of dollars in damage from TS Irene. The Trails Administrator does not have the authority to overspend the grooming budget without approval from the VAST Board of Directors.

As I stated before, there are clubs that still have some cap left in their contract. There will be some money left that could be re-appropriated to clubs that exceeded their grooming limit but that is a decision that will be made after the Board has a final tally on TMA revenue versus expenses.

TMA sales should be well north of 24,000 with the season we have had. That will be crucial in funding the level of grooming we have enjoyed this winter.

 

My understanding is that the cap is based on a running average. If true, if the clubs dont get paid and hence dont groom at the end of good snow years like 2015, and cant groom on bad snow years, it seems to me the average can only go down and never up. Sounds like a method that ends up in a death spiral that eventually ratchets down to no grooming.

Can anybody educate me further on this?

 

That's what I was wondering. If your cap is X number of weeks, do extra weeks in good snow years come out of your own pocket? Maybe this is why clubs around here seem to shy away from early and late grooming.

 

Worth mentioning is the difficulty Matt and others at VAST have managing any sort of 'reserve' fund. Unless it's money in the bank (Which it's not now at least) funds for TMA can be notoriously late. VAST still hasn't received all of the funds from the Early Bird TMA sales (ended Dec 15th) as of our last county meeting. That makes it even more difficult for VAST to make a decision on if/when to use extra $$$ for extra grooming. Can't spend what you don't know you have yet.

 

I realize the paperwork is a pain, but it seems like clubs that are late with early bird TMA's should be penalized. How else do they know the early bird wasn't sold after the early bird date?

VAST could also make this so much easier on themselves by making it electronic.

 

FYI - here's info on how the weeks are determined. So it seems while it MIGHT fall on the club to pay for the added weeks, it doesn't have to be their full system if they can't afford it - 25% of it would get their groomed numbers up and help raise their average. Assuming I'm understanding this correctly..

11. Grooming Weeks
A week of grooming shall be defined as grooming the minimum of
25% of the club/contractor’s grooming contract miles. For example:
If a club is contracted for 50 one-way miles, a minimum of 12.5 oneway
miles shall be considered an actual grooming week. This will
determine the club/contractor’s number of weeks groomed within
one season and will be applied to the five-year rolling average of
grooming weeks.

 

As the reimbursement rate and total contract amounts were determined based on fuel prices before the drop, clubs and contractors may still have funds in hand that weren't spent on petrol. But it's gonna be up to each operator to decide if the balance sheet can handle "grooming for nothing" over their cap.

Maybe this system isn't perfect, but I don't know what I'd do different. Sure as hell NH & ME don't have any answers.

 

The number of weeks of a grooming contract is based on a 5 year average...normally.

Two years ago we were coming out of a 3 year cycle of low snow winters that drove the contact average down to levels that threatened the financial stability of a lot of clubs. Grooming Clubs were going out in marginal conditions to maintain the 5 year average and to generate revenue to pay for bills. The number of weeks in a contract also dictated the size of grant dollars from VAST for replacing power units. VAST decided to freeze the contract lengths prior to the 2012 season for 2013 and 2014. They also looked at a new averaging method that gave all clubs the greater amount of weeks based on either the 5 years pre 2012 or the 16 year history of the tailored grooming contract program.

It is confusing but it does accomplish the goal of getting trails groomed when conditions allow and giving clubs and contractors some financial stability.

I will add that the budget approved for this year was based on 21,500 members. Anything over that represents additional revenue that can offset additional expenses.

 

Is the mileage reimbursement a set rate before the season starts so price of fuel fluctuations only helps or hurts the clubs profit after subtracting operating expenses?

 

The mileage rate was increased from $10 to $12 this year to account for the rising cost of grooming. The TMA rate was increased by $20 dollars this year to cover the added expense.

 

A few years back the Contingency fund was used to keep things going at the end of a great winter...but when it came time to pay back the contingency fund there was some resistance.

I shouldn't be relevant this year, but for those of you that ask for clubs to keep grooming even after funds are depleted.