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Discussion Starter #21
Personally, I'd be suspicious of a poorly set TPS. These are not adjustable and are set by airflow when made at supplier. If this isn't done correctly, and it wasn't on the 800's, it will be a potential problem IMO. If it reads low at idle, it may reduce fuel flow enough to cause this. The reflash might be making this worse.

A Bully Dog GT gauge displaying throttle percent and an O2 sensor being monitored while running a good one versus a bad one should help determine this.
The re-flash made my hanging idle worse.
 

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lengthy talk with joey yesterday at BMP. the ones doing this have had motor issue's. bad crank seals and the bearing issue. also we have found air leaks at the reeds. we now use 4 gaskets on these. one on each side of the reed.

so on this one trouble sled. the det senor and the head bolts were basically hand tight. i held the 3/8 drive ratchet at the head of it not out on the handle and removed everyone of them? suppose to be 25 ft.lbs? it was definitely not. now i'am thinking v-force reed / adapter air leak? stay tuned as we dig into this today.

i put a SLP head on my 850 my head bolts were tight. this sled was not? Monday morning or Friday afternoon? we have found a number of det sensor's loose on the 850's? again why? vibration or somebody's torque wrench not set right? these are air driven torque wrenches used at the factory. we all have seen the over torqued chain case fill plugs. so anything is possible? it all comes down to quality controller or lack of it?
 

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Jesus. Makes a guy feel all warm and fuzzy to think about buying a new sled. Any brand. It's nothing but issue after issue, wtf. I guess I will just throw another $1000 at my sled this off season and keep riding it. For the 1500 miles I get to ride a season, it's plenty good.
 

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Check the belt for adjustment on the secondary. I had no issue with old belt, put new belt on and felt like the throttle was hanging a bit. I made an adjustment to loosen the belt and now the issue is gone.
 

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My pro r 800 had a hanging idle. I got fed up and knowing that a tiny increase in throttle opening at idle is huge. I found my tps setting was at the maximum value. So I spent time to set it to the lowest acceptable value. That fixed my hanging idle for good.

The first 25% of idle opening is the largest effect on increasing rpm. That's why the throttle cable at the throttle bodies is on that eccentric cam. To allow smoother (slower) acceleration at the throttle lever.
 

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noticed that, wonder where those 9 hp were found..
 

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Personally, I'd be suspicious of a poorly set/faulty TPS. These are not adjustable and are set by airflow when made at supplier. If this isn't done correctly, and it wasn't on the 800's, it will be a potential problem IMO. If it reads low at idle, it may reduce fuel flow enough to cause this. The reflash might be making this worse.

The shop manual gives detailed info about how to test it with Digital Wrench. I'll bet few dealers even look at it. You must perform a sweep test as well to check for erratic or jumpy voltage. Some causes are poor wiring connections, loose TPS, etc. Entire T-Body must be replaced if TPS is bad.

Throttle cable slack is a potential factor only if the adjustment is too tight. The manual tells you to disconnect the cable and check if TPS voltage changes. If it does, it was too tight. The 850 spec at idle is .86V +/- .05VDC

An alternative way to do this is with a Bully Dog GT gauge, etc. displaying throttle percent and an O2 sensor being monitored while running a good one versus a bad one.
OK... So I'm now looking at having my TPS checked out by a dealer in the near future. My 2019 Assault 850 has had a hanging idle since brand new. "Without clutching" I installed a clutch kit and my hanging idle got worse. I got the 2019.5 re-flash and it fixed nothing. I debated just trading it in last year but in a last minute decision before the closing of the Snow Check date last year I decided to hold onto my sled and see if the 2020 re-flash would fix things. This re-flash wasn't available yet when I was talking to BMP about possibly adding their pipe. While talking to them on the phone for quite a bit of time I discussed my hanging idle issues in great detail. I told them I had been waiting for the Polaris 2020 tune to see if their new tune might fix my issue. The guy I spoke with from BMP told me they had checked out the new 2020 Polaris flash and that they had a BMP re-flash that was much better than this one. In fact he said if I was to get the Torque Link and get a BMP re-flash I would most certainly see my Hanging Idle disappear. At this point the BMP pipe sounded real good to me. "Grab some added power and also drop my hanging idle problems" I elected to get the Stage 2 set up with the Torque Link Stage 2 re-flash. My results were not to good. I felt no added power at all and the hanging idle is still there and as strong as it ever was. After trying a few different things and having no luck I brought my sled to Rick at NorthStar performance. He took my sled out and confirmed it was a turd as well as still had a bad hanging idle. He then talked to BMP and they said that their kits have been working great as advertised. Only a few have had issues and all of those had engine problems. They suspected a bad leaking Crank Seal or Reed valve leak. Rick then dug in again on my sled. Turns out there's NO leaking crank or read problems. DET scensor isn't the issue. He had the pipe back off and noticed how rich on fuel it has been running. I thought a hanging idle would develop from being lean but never the less to find that my sled is over fueling is a problem. This explains the occasional back fire pop after I've given her a hot dinner run. So Rick took a couple more test runs trying a couple things. Didn't find any smoking guns but on the last attempt he took out my Adjustable Dalton weights that I had at 73.5 grams and threw in the same set of weights that he has been using at 76 grams and he said it woke right up and felt much stronger? I couldn't pull 76 grams with the Dalton's. Originally I started at 77 and kept working the weight down and down until my weights had no slugs left in them and I was at 73.5. Thankfully at 73.5 I finally was close to pulling proper RPM. But my hanging idle was really bad. With this set up I would jump quick up to 8250 but then settle down to 8100. On long heat soaked runs these rpm numbers would suffer some and you could feel it. With Rick's chosen 76 gram weights he said it would quickly jump to 8100 and then climb to 8200 and hold it steady right there on a long run. Also noted that my hanging idle was improved greatly. Nowhere near as bad as it was. He says it still has an underlying issue that he hasn't been able to find but has narrowed down his thoughts to first believing it very well could have a bad calibration on my TPS sensor. Hopes are that with a re-learn of the TPS the hanging idle will disappear totally and the over fueling will be remedied. I am going to go ride the sled today to see the differences in how it runs with these new weights and I then will be looking for a dealer that has a clue how to set my TPS. I worry about finding a good technician at any dealer. Any suggestions on how I might find a technician at any one of my dealers that has deep knowledge in properly setting an 850 TPS. If the TPS adjustments don't fix my hanging idle and the over fueling I then plan to go back to BMP and discuss all of my findings with them to see if there might be any mapping changes they have in mind?

I've heard people say that the 850 doesn't like clutching. That's not a suggestion that satisfies my needs. If 9 people out of 10 that have 850's w/ clutching with great success I find it disgusting that for some reason I would have to run a completely stock sled for it to perform cleanly. I'm hoping this TPS issue is my issue because I'm running out of reasons for my issues.
 

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2021 Pro-S 850 137" 2016 SB 800 Pro-S 136"
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Are Rick's chosen weights that "appear" to be working for you the SLP Magnum's or the EPI Belly Busters?

What Dalton's did you have in prior? QAP-3 or -4?
 

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My 19 850 Ran ok out of the box, NO issues.

Then I clutched it. I tried aggressive clutching like my 800 likes, and I started having the hanging idle. I softened the clutching, it got better, but was still there. I hate stock, so I never went back.

I had the 19.5 tune installed, the hanging idle didn't seem to change, the sled didn't seem to run much different.
Did it because always looking for the latest greatest.

This year did the 2020 tune, hanging idle was gone!
Now I have a BCM tune in it, and it runs great! Doesn't get that dreaded power lose when warm!
 

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Are Rick's chosen weights that "appear" to be working for you the SLP Magnum's or the EPI Belly Busters?

What Dalton's did you have in prior? QAP-3 or -4?
I believe his choice is EPI Belly Buster's. Or I should say it is one of his choices. If you like adjustable's he also recommends the SLP Magnums. Last year I started with the SLP Magnums but the early Magnum kits didn't have enough weight for the 850. I went on a scamper looking for adjustable's with more weight and went searching Dalton's 1st because I've had good luck with them in all my previous 800's. I can't remember if it was the QAP -3 or 4's that I got. I do know the base weight without any slugs added was 73.5 grams. Very weird these didn't work well for me. I rode the sled today and it indeed is a different sled with the Belly Busters in it. Still running heavy rich on fuel and still has the hanging idle. The hanging idle is at least 75% better than it was with the Dalton's. It makes no sense to me but it is what it is? I'll get my TPS adjusted next week and CROSS FINGERS that those issues are resolved.
 

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Are Rick's chosen weights that "appear" to be working for you the SLP Magnum's or the EPI Belly Busters?

What Dalton's did you have in prior? QAP-3 or -4?
I also would say that I think my sled was built on a Monday morning after a Big Party weekend by Polaris. Following my lead with this sled might be a mistake. It has reacted different than any other 850 out there that I'm aware of. Got another month to try to get her figured out.
 

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My 19 850 Ran ok out of the box, NO issues.

Then I clutched it. I tried aggressive clutching like my 800 likes, and I started having the hanging idle. I softened the clutching, it got better, but was still there. I hate stock, so I never went back.

I had the 19.5 tune installed, the hanging idle didn't seem to change, the sled didn't seem to run much different.
Did it because always looking for the latest greatest.

This year did the 2020 tune, hanging idle was gone!
Now I have a BCM tune in it, and it runs great! Doesn't get that dreaded power lose when warm!
So the 2020 fixed your hanging idle. Then you went for a BCM tune? Even though the 2020 flash fixed your issue you still tried something new. "Please tell me more" Why? How much better now than with the 2020 flash? How is the BCM tune flashed to your ECU? Torque Link? Bully Dog? Sent your ECU to him? I did hear some good words about their tunes. What was the guys name that does the tunes for BCM?
 

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So the 2020 fixed your hanging idle. Then you went for a BCM tune? Even though the 2020 flash fixed your issue you still tried something new. "Please tell me more" Why? How much better now than with the 2020 flash? How is the BCM tune flashed to your ECU? Torque Link? Bully Dog? Sent your ECU to him? I did hear some good words about their tunes. What was the guys name that does the tunes for BCM?
yes the 20 flash fixed my hanging idle!

My sled was running so good, that I was afraid to change it--BUT--I can't leave anything alone, and I know people--so I got a BCM tune in another ECU. Boyd is his name. It runs even Better!
he Reflashes your ecu.
 

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I believe his choice is EPI Belly Buster's. Or I should say it is one of his choices. If you like adjustable's he also recommends the SLP Magnums. Last year I started with the SLP Magnums but the early Magnum kits didn't have enough weight for the 850. I went on a scamper looking for adjustable's with more weight and went searching Dalton's 1st because I've had good luck with them in all my previous 800's. I can't remember if it was the QAP -3 or 4's that I got. I do know the base weight without any slugs added was 73.5 grams. Very weird these didn't work well for me. I rode the sled today and it indeed is a different sled with the Belly Busters in it. Still running heavy rich on fuel and still has the hanging idle. The hanging idle is at least 75% better than it was with the Dalton's. It makes no sense to me but it is what it is? I'll get my TPS adjusted next week and CROSS FINGERS that those issues are resolved.
I thought the TPS on the 850 wasn't adjustable?
 

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I thought the TPS on the 850 wasn't adjustable?
d-wrench it can be looked at and changed. if the dealer or tech know what he is doing? this is the issue. the TPS is fixed. yes but it is set at the factory. we know how that goes at times? it may be a bit different then what we know about the ones we can adjust? i have a dealer that lets me in the shop. if they could have taken his sled while i had it i would know for sure. i've been told they can look at that via the d-wrench and its changeable?
 

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So the 2020 fixed your hanging idle. Then you went for a BCM tune? Even though the 2020 flash fixed your issue you still tried something new. "Please tell me more" Why? How much better now than with the 2020 flash? How is the BCM tune flashed to your ECU? Torque Link? Bully Dog? Sent your ECU to him? I did hear some good words about their tunes. What was the guys name that does the tunes for BCM?
you paid for the torque link license i can flash it to the 2020 tune. never thought of it? well i did but don't know how that would work with the mods?probably should have tried it? worse case scenario i blow it up we take all the shit off it and you get a 2020 motor. probably getting sick of driving from M.E. to N.H. but it takes 10 minutes tops to do that. and you don't have to unload it. i can do it right in your truck. Joey might spank me but oh well been spanked before. if it's something you want to try? when ever show up and i will do it. remember i can run out of state sleds in N.H. i know people at fish&game. put over 200 miles on a registered new Brunswick Canadian sled in N.H. they run just one plate left hand side riveted to the chassis. and i got stopped. one call cleared and on my way. pays to know people. sleds with V.T.,M.E., P.A., Quebec, N.B., P.E.I., N.S., N.Y.,M.A.,C.T.,R.I. registration only etc. are common place.
 

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I don't have the hanging idle and I'm using Cutler weights at 76.6 grams loaded at the heel. Just rode over 200 miles this week Wednesday and Thursday.
Revs at 8150. Very good throttle response. Runs very strong.

All CVT springs and helix are stock. Used 8 gal fuel for 143 miles. 143/8 = 17.9 mpg. Speeds were 30-60 mph.

I do notice a couple of short pops in exhaust at stops sometimes. Otherwise no other issues. Idles at 1800 rpm. Starts very well hot or cold.
 

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My 19 850 Ran ok out of the box, NO issues.

Then I clutched it. I tried aggressive clutching like my 800 likes, and I started having the hanging idle. I softened the clutching, it got better, but was still there. I hate stock, so I never went back.

I had the 19.5 tune installed, the hanging idle didn't seem to change, the sled didn't seem to run much different.
Did it because always looking for the latest greatest.

This year did the 2020 tune, hanging idle was gone!
Now I have a BCM tune in it, and it runs great! Doesn't get that dreaded power lose when warm!
Are you running Boyds clutching or......
 
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