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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
as of 09/20/20​
Polaris Factory Clutch Settings at Sea Level.


----------- MY 21 -- / --- MY21 ---- / -- MY20 ---
------ 650 PATRIOT - / 850 PATRIOT - / -850 Patriot

PRIMARY (Drive) Clutch
weights .. 10-66 ... / ... 10-72 ... / .. 10-72
......... 1321584 .. / .. 1322428 .. / . 1322428

spring .. Black4537 ./ Almond/Gold . / .Black2287
..........120/320 .. / .. 150/290 .. / . 110/290
......... 7044537 .. / .. 7041645 .. / . 7042287

SECONDARY (Driven) Clutch
helix 58/44-.36 BA35 / 58/44-.36 BA35 / 58/44-.36 BA35
.......... 5143872 . / .. 5143872 ... / . 5140311

spring .. LH Black . / .. LH Black .. / . Red/Blue
..........155/222 .. / .. 155/222 ... / . 140/200
......... 7043063 .. / .. 7043063 ... / . 7043057


Primary clutch puller is the same as other MY00up Liberty (domestic) twins. Number 2872085, 3/4" - 16 thread, x [email protected], 1" hex head, 14.5" overall length. Also used for MY99up 440 liquid, MY99up 700/800 XCR Fuji triple w/VES, and MY06-14 Four Stroke Weber FS/FST.

POLARIS PRIMARY CLUTCH WEIGHTS

WEIGHT
NAME
GRAMS
(+/- 1Gr.)
PART
NUMBER
3 pack
Cost
$US
Where Used _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
10M-R441321530?
10M-W461321527?
10M-B47.51321529
$28​
10M49.51321528
$31​
10511321526
$31​
10A-L52.31321531
$31​
10-54541321685
$31​
10A551321589?
10-56561321684
$31​
10-58581321588
$31​
10-60601321587
$31​
10-62621321586
$31​
10-64641321585
$31​
10-66661321584
$31​
650 Patriot MY21
10-68681322427
$31​
10-70701322414
$30​
10-72721322428
$31​
850 Patriot MY20&21
10-74741322429
$31​
10-76761322585NA
10-78781322586
$42​


PRIMARY CLUTCH SPRINGS POLARIS P85

PART NUMBERCOLORWIRE DIAMETERFREE LENGTH +- .125"FORCE Lb. @2.5 -1.19"RATE Lb./InchWhere Used_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
7043076Black - 3076.2252.67 40 - 340229
7043120Black - 3120.2252.78 60 - 340213
7041148Gold.2073.25100 - 275133
7043121Black - 3121.2553.05100 - 340183
7042287Black - 2287.2073.40110 - 290137MY20 850
7041080Blue.2073.55120 - 300137
7043681Black - 3681.2253.327120 - 310145
7044537Black - 4537.2123.45120 - 320155MY21 650
7042083Black/Green.2183.38120 - 340168
7041818Black/White.2183.52140 - 320137
7041945Almond.2183.65140 - 330145
7043829Black - 3829.2183.48140 - 330145
7041645Almond/Gold.2074.00150 - 290107MY21 850
7041922Almond/Blue.2183.75150 - 310122
7041816Almond/Black.2003.75165 - 310111
7041988Almond/Red.2074.27165 - 310110


PERC TEAM LWT DRIVEN HELIXES

PART
NUMBER
START / FINISH -
Transition Distance "
Cost $US
Where Used
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
514031248 / 42 - .36 BA35
$320​
513550354 / 38 - .25
$185​
513540356 / 42 - .36
$206​
513953758 / 44 - .36
$355​
MY15-16 800
514031158 / 44 - .36 BA35
$206​
MY17-20 800/850
514387258 / 44 - .36 BA35???$MY21 650/850
513632760 / 42 - .36?NA?
513540264 / 38 - .25
$176​
513540164 / 42 - .36
$206​
513577266 / 44 - .46
$176​
5135504S36
$176​
5140109S40
$206​
5136255S42
$186​


TEAM SECONDARY SPRINGS

PART NUMBERCOLORFREE LENGTH"LOAD @ 2.2" LBSLOAD @ 1.1" LBSRATE LBS/ InchWhere Used _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
7043062Red/Yellow4.4010015045
7043060Red/White4.9510020091
7043059Red/Green4.76712022090
7043064LH Blue/Black4.112320373
7043061Red/Silver4.9512517545
7042066Green/Black5.6013519856
7043057Red/Blue4.76714020054MY20 850
7043058LH Red/Black4.714024091
7043069Red/Pink3.50140260110
7043254Black - 140 / 3003.20140300146
7042181Black/Yellow6.014520856
7043063LH Black4.215522261MY21 650/850
7043363Black/Purple4.5016024072
7043252Black - 160 / 2803.70160280109
7043255Black - 160 / 3003.50160300127
7043256Black - 180 / 3003.90180300109

===================================================

as of 09/15/20​
MY21 Matryx Snowmobile_Track_Gearing Stock

650 INDY 129/137 VR1/LaunchEdition​

_1.25 .............. 1.80 20:36 66P 99.3MPH
ICE Ripper XT
_1.35 Cobra

_1.50 Storm .......... 1.86 22:41 70P 95.9MPH

--alt. 8,000'/2400M up
_1.25 .................... 2.00 21:42 70P 89.4MPH
ICE Ripper XT
_1.35 Cobra
_1.50 Storm

850 INDY 129/137 VR1/LaunchEdition​

_1.25 ........ 1.61 23:37 68P 111.1MPH
ICE Ripper XT
_1.35 Cobra

_1.50 Storm ........... 1.86 22:41 70P 95.9MPH

--alt. 8,000'/2400M up
_1.25 ................... 1.95 20:39 68P 91.7MPH
ICE Ripper XT
_1.35 Cobra

_1.50 Storm .............. 2.00 21:42 70P 89.4MPH

650 SWITCHBACK ASSAULT (SBA) 146​

_1.35 Cobra ......... 1.80 20:36 66P 99.3MPH

_1.50 ICE Storm ......... 1.95 20:39 68P 91.7MPH
_1.6 Cobra

_2.0 Crossover .............. 2.11 19:40 68P 84.9MPH

--alt. 8,000'/2400M up
_1.35 Cobra ................. 2.11 19:40 68P 84.9MPH
_1.50 ICE Storm
_1.6 Cobra
_2.0 Crossover

850 SWITCHBACK ASSAULT (SBA) 146​

_1.35 Cobra ...... 1.74 23:40 70P 102.8MPH

_1.50 ICE Storm ...... 1.86 22:41 70P 95.9MPH
_1.6 Cobra

_2.0 Crossover .............. 2.11 19:40 68P 84.9MPH
(1)
--alt. 8,000'/2400M up
_1.35 Cobra ............. 1.95 20:39 68P 91.7MPH
_1.50 ICE Storm
_1.6 Cobra
_2.0 Crossover
(2)
...............6--7--8--9--0--1--2--3


NOTE: MPH is track speed at 8250 engine RPM w/clutches at 1:1 (no overdrive)

(1) I think this is wrong, BUT it matches the MY21 AXYS 850 SBA 144 OM. The 850 SBA 146 @sea level shows the same 2.11 gearing for the Crossover 2.0, as the 650 SBA 146 does. I think the 850 SBA should be more like a 1.95 or maybe 2.00 ratio.

(2) The 850 SBA 146 is above 8000' and has lost 24% of its' power or more. It needs MUCH LOWER GEARS than the 1.86 that is used to turn the 1.5/1.6 tracks at sea level, probably 2.05 or lower. Perhaps the 1.95 and the 2.11 gears should TRADE places in the Polaris 850 SBA 146 chart. The MY21 AXYS 850 SBA 144, has a 2.11 19:40 for 8000'up. This is the ONLY place where the MY21 MATRYX 850 SBA 146 gearing, is different than the MY21 AXYS 850 SBA 144.

==================================

This is a smaller cross-reference with just gear ratios

- MATRYX -
E N G I N E ---->. 650 . 850 .. 650 . 850
- M O D E L ---->. INDY..INDY.. -SBA 146-
--Sea Level
1.25 ICE RipperXT. 1.80_ 1.61
1.35 Cobra ....... 1.80_ 1.61 _ 1.80_ 1.74 Cobra 1.3
1.50 Storm ....... 1.86_ 1.86 _ 1.95_ 1.86 ICE Storm
1.6 Cobra ........_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1.95_ 1.86 Cobra 1.6
2.0 Crossover ...._ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2.11_ 2.11 Crossover

alt. 8,000'/2400M up
1.25 ICE RipperXT. 2.00_ 1.95
1.35 Cobra ....... 2.00_ 1.95 _ 2.11_ 1.95 Cobra 1.3
1.50 Storm ....... 2.00_ 2.00 _ 2.11_ 1.95 ICE Storm
1.6 Cobra ........_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2.11_ 1.95 Cobra 1.6
2.0 Crossover ...._ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2.11_ 1.95 Crossover

================================================

Sprockets, Chaincase gears 3/4" wide, HYVO 15 spline

Polaris # _ _gear _ Pol$$ _ TEAM part# TEAM$
3221095 __ 19 tooth $US33 #351352-004 $35US
3221096 __ 20 tooth $US42 #351352-005 $35US
3221097 __ 21 tooth $US39 #351352-006 $35US
3221098 __ 22 tooth $US42 #351352-007 $35US
3221099 __ 23 tooth $US42 #351352-008 $35US
3221101 __ 24 tooth $US43 #351352-009 $35US
3221102 __ 25 tooth $US37 #351352-010 $35US
3222127 __ 26 tooth $US47 #351352-011 $US

3222126 __ 36 tooth $67US #930264 $60US
3222125 __ 37 tooth $47US #930265 $60US
_ _ _ _ __ 38 tooth _ _ _ #930266 $60US
3222108 __ 39 tooth $47US #930267 $60US
3222099 __ 40 tooth $47US #930268 $60US
3222101 __ 41 tooth $41US #930269 $60US
3222192 __ 42 tooth $52US #930270 $60US
3221188 __ 43 tooth $83US #930271 $60US
3222239 __ 44 tooth $57US #930626 $60US
3222146 __ 45 tooth $165US #930627 $60US
_ _ _ _ __ 46 tooth _ _ _ #930628 $60US

19T-26T sprockets about $45US hiperf.co
33T-46T sprockets about $80US hiperf.com
19T-26T sprockets about $60US VenomProducts.com
33T-46T sprockets about $100US VenomProducts.com

3/4" wide HYVO chain loops

Polaris# _ _chain _Pol$$ _TEAM part# TEAM$
3221114 __ 64 link NA$69US
3221113 __ 66 link $109US #930218 $80US
3221112 __ 68 link $109US #930219 $85US
3221115 __ 70 link $145US #930220 $85US
3221110 __ 72 link $145US #930221 $85US
3221109 __ 74 link $145US #930222 $85US
3221108 __ 76 link $145US #930223 $85US
3222110 __ 78 link $ 88US #930300 $85US

66T-76T HYVO chain about $85US hiperf.com
68T-76T HYVO chain about $85US VenomProducts.com
.Polaris sprocket,chain pricing Sept. 1, 2020
 

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Discussion Starter #2
In response to some good suggestions, I have added a small gearing chart to post #1, that has only the tracks, Matryx sled models & gear ratios. I am nearly done with a BIG gear ratio/sprockets/chain slack/MPH/where used chart for the MATRYX sleds.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have added 3 tables of clutch springs & helix part numbers, specs and where used to post #1.

I am nearly done with a BIG gear ratio/sprockets/chain slack/MPH/where used chart for the MATRYX sleds.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Great information! Thank you for all the work you put into this!
You are welcome. If anyone gets some facts, like a MY21 Matryx with different identification on the helix, than what I listed, please post that on here, and the source. I have seen sleds, with the wrong parts put on them during production, so one instance, may be misleading, but several, is at least a pattern!

One year, a FST turbo model, had the wrong piston put in it, after a faulty DET sensor, caused piston failure. The new piston failed immediately again. I tracked it down to the parts book showing the high compression (N/A, FS part) part number in the page for the Turbo engine which should have the low compression non-domed piston. I was called everything in the book, until I sent them a picture, and a cross-reference document I made of the different parts pages. Part of the problem is the parts people weren't familiar enough with turbocharged four strokes to realize that the "high-performance" engine, used the low compression pistons. It took months for the computer to approve us using the "wrong" piston to repair that engine.
 

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I am very surprised Polaris has the Cobra track geared this low. I’d also be surprised if it also goes out the factory door at this ratio
 

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I'm shocked they have different gearing per the different tracks. Had I known the storm been geared lower I may have went with the ice ripper. Hope the track and gearing doesn't hurt mpg too bad.
 

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On Storm tracked sleds in the past Polaris has geared those sleds lower vs rip 1.25 and cobra 1.35. The rip 1.25 and cobra 1.35 have always been the same taller ratio
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I am very surprised Polaris has the Cobra track geared this low. I’d also be surprised if it also goes out the factory door at this ratio
Which engine, which model are you talking about?

1.61:1 (23:37-68) for the MY21 Matryx 850 Indy with a 1.35 Cobra doe not seem too low to me... 111 MPH @ 8250 RPM with 1:1 clutch ratio

I'm shocked they have different gearing per the different tracks. Had I known the storm been geared lower I may have went with the ice ripper. Hope the track and gearing doesn't hurt mpg too bad.
The MY20 AXYS 850 Indy, had the same gearing per track type, as the MY21 MATRYX 850 Indy, you can check the Owners Manuals. Here's the 850 Indy with Storm 150 spec:
1.86:1 (22:41-70) gives 95.9 MPH @ 8250 RPM w/1:1 clutch shift

If you want to reuse the same chain, you've got plenty of choices to get close to the 1.25 ICE Ripper XT / 1.35 Cobra ratio of 1.61:
1.63 24:39-70 gives 110.0 MPH @ 8250 RPM w/1:1 clutch shift
1.67 24:40-70 gives 107.3 MPH @ 8250 RPM w/1:1 clutch shift (no slack in chain!)
 
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PSD I am referring to 650 129 cobra 1.325 sleds and past sleds with same cobra
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I am very surprised Polaris has the Cobra track geared this low. (MY21 650 Indy 129 Launch Edition) I’d also be surprised if it also goes out the factory door at this ratio
Sorry, forgot that you and I are both on the MY21 650 testing team!
Oops, I see my clutching & gearing post has the Matryx Indy as a 127/139... Dyslexic again, Fixed.

For MY21, the Owners Manual, and parts book has the MY21 Matryx 650 INDY 129:
with 1.25 Ice Ripper XT or 1.35 Cobra

1.80 20:36-66 with 99.3 MPH with 8250 RPM @ 1:1.00 clutch shift, no slack

........................................for MY20 Axys 600 Indy XC 129 w/ same track
1.86 22:41-70 with 95.9 MPH ....

........................................ How about one of these:
1.61 23:37-68 with 111.1 MPH ... stock 800/850 Indy 1.25/1.3, tight
1.63 24:39-70 with 110.0 MPH ...
1.67 24:40-70 with 107.3 MPH ... no slack
1.68 22:37-68 with 106.3 MPH ...
1.73 22:38-68 with 103.5 MPH ... no slack
1.74 23:40-70 with 102.8 MPH ... stock 800/850 SBA 1.3

Do I understand what you are thinking: 650 Patriot has "10% more horsepower, 14% more torque," but, geared for only about 3 MPH more top end over the 600?

Maybe the drivetrain engineers feel the clutching changes & improved torque at the top end, will get them into overdive more easily.
 

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Which engine, which model are you talking about?

1.61:1 (23:37-68) for the MY21 Matryx 850 Indy with a 1.35 Cobra doe not seem too low to me... 111 MPH @ 8250 RPM with 1:1 clutch ratio

Please excuse my ignorance here...I am awaiting a 850 VR1 137 with the cobra track. I plan to stud with 144 and I would like to see a big too end, is there a simple gear change or some thing to get in the range of 115 without surrendering too much on the trail and under acceleration?

N—-


The MY20 AXYS 850 Indy, had the same gearing per track type, as the MY21 MATRYX 850 Indy, you can check the Owners Manuals. Here's the 850 Indy with Storm 150 spec:
1.86:1 (22:41-70) gives 95.9 MPH @ 8250 RPM w/1:1 clutch shift

If you want to reuse the same chain, you've got plenty of choices to get close to the 1.25 ICE Ripper XT / 1.35 Cobra ratio of 1.61:
1.63 24:39-70 gives 110.0 MPH @ 8250 RPM w/1:1 clutch shift
1.67 24:40-70 gives 107.3 MPH @ 8250 RPM w/1:1 clutch shift (no slack in chain!)
 

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Please excuse my ignorance here...I am awaiting a 850 VR1 137 with the cobra track. I plan to stud with 144 and I would like to see a big top end, is there a simple gear change or some thing to get in the range of 115 without surrendering too much on the trail and under acceleration?

N—-
 

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Please excuse my ignorance here...I am awaiting a 850 VR1 137 with the cobra track. I plan to stud with 144 and I would like to see a big too end, is there a simple gear change or some thing to get in the range of 115 without surrendering too much on the trail and under acceleration?

N—-
You wont really need to regear for what you want. You could get 115 with the stock gearing going a little in overdrive.
Will you get there without mods? We don't know yet. It depends on the new body aerodynamics, windshield size, track tension, ski alignment and how the new clutching works...
 

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Find it funny they are going from a primary spring with a 110 starting rate to 150. Looks like weights are still at 72. Wonder what the BA designation for the helix is about and why does the ‘21 helix have a different part number for the same helix designation. Engagement is going to be very assertive at 150 with a soft shift rate of 107 #/“.
 

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2107144
2107145

Here is a standard 58-44.46 (1st picture) vs. a 58-44.36 BA35.15 from my 20 Assault. The back angle is drastically different on the BA helix. Not sure why?
 

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I'm shocked they have different gearing per the different tracks. Had I known the storm been geared lower I may have went with the ice ripper. Hope the track and gearing doesn't hurt mpg too bad.
Snowmobile mpg with a CVT is not materially affected by chaincase gearing. The CVT automatically upshifts to a taller ratio when cruising to adapt to a reduced track load resulting from lower chaincase gearing. The track type does affect mpg though because of increased track load caused by windage from taller lugs. IMO, the factory is simply optimizing acceleration from a dead stop to take full advantage of added traction. This should also reduce belt wear. I reduced gearing on my 2015 Pro-S 800 HO from 23/37 to 22/41 and mpg actually got better.
 

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Please excuse my ignorance here...I am awaiting a 850 VR1 137 with the cobra track. I plan to stud with 144 and I would like to see a big too end, is there a simple gear change or some thing to get in the range of 115 without surrendering too much on the trail and under acceleration?

N—-
The best thing you can do to get best mph is first align everything to the optimal, adjust belt deflection and track tension and alignment, lower the entire sled, then add clutch weight to get rpms into the power band of 8000-8100. You also must run in the 91 non-ethanol mode with 93 ethanol fuel. This requires a total of around 4-6 more grams of weight to the stock 72s. If that doesn't do it, you can go to a slightly taller ratio like 24/37 (1.54).
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
pics of helix
Here is a standard 58-44.46 (1st picture) vs. a 58-44.36 BA35.15 from my 20 Assault. The back angle is drastically different on the BA helix. Not sure why?
It would be very helpful if you could take a photo editor to the second of those really good helix pics and point out/circle the "BA35" area of the helix.
Thanks.

Find it funny they are going from a primary spring with a 110 starting rate to 150. Looks like weights are still at 72. Wonder what the BA designation for the helix is about and why does the ‘21 helix have a different part number for the same helix designation. Engagement is going to be very assertive at 150 with a soft shift rate of 107 #/“.
I think this 850 engine pulls hard at engagement RPM, and the engineers want to lock it up quickly, so it doesn't burn/heat up the belt. the Primary spring went from 110/290 to 150/290 (lower rate, higher engagement) for MY21, but they stiffened the Secondary spring to fight upshift from 140/200 to a 155/222 in MY21.

Let's hope we have really good belt clearance in the primary, because if it's too much, combined with higher engagement speed, it could be a handful for some folks when starting out.
 
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