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2020 XCR 850
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Currently have my sled set up for fast trail riding and precise cornering. A-arms nice and low, barely any ski lift.

I have the OEM skis with Qualipieces Cobra anti-dart 8" runners. Cornering on the hard stuff is awesome, a bit of push as things get softer, steering effort is medium but I'm fine with that.

How much better could it be with C&A's or other options? Worth the $$$?
 

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I found the pro-steers on my 2015 pro-x sb to work just fine running on packed snow. But I hated how they worked in looser conditions.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I found the pro-steers on my 2015 pro-x sb to work just fine running on packed snow. But I hated how they worked in looser conditions.
My feelings as well. On cold crisp mornings they turn on a dime. Once things warm up its a different story. JesseJames322 had a great episode on YTube comparing stock to C&A's. I'm just trying to justify in my mind whether it is worth the investment or whether there are just marginal gains.
 

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For a comparison.
My 2014 800 indy has stock pro-steers
My 2015 switchback assault has Grippers.
Both run stock carbides. The assault turns better on the hard pack by just a bit. But in the soft snow the assault turns way better all the time. I find the Indy pushed way too much into a corner once its a bit soft. Its getting skis for next winter.

I know they are not the same sled, and the same skis but it tells a story just how bad some stock trail skis are in the loose snow.
 

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For a comparison.
My 2014 800 indy has stock pro-steers
My 2015 switchback assault has Grippers.
Both run stock carbides. The assault turns better on the hard pack by just a bit. But in the soft snow the assault turns way better all the time. I find the Indy pushed way too much into a corner once its a bit soft. Its getting skis for next winter.

I know they are not the same sled, and the same skis but it tells a story just how bad some stock trail skis are in the loose snow.
Grippers would definitely be the easiest and cheapest upgrade
 

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I swapped the pro-steers on my 2015 for grippers just because I was annoyed by the pushing and diving in loose snow. Adds a little front end nervousness in semi-hard conditions though with the tall pro-x setup.
My 2019 SBA (international model) came stock with grippers - very happy with them.

If I was to go aftermarket, SLP Mohawks would be my choice
 
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A bit of push doesn't sound too bad. But I picked up a set of C&A RZ skis this spring for something like $370 shipped. Then I sold my stock skis and didn't have to buy new carbides for them. So overall it was a cheap upgrade over stock skis + new carbides. Maybe like a $50 upgrade. No-brainer IMO.
 

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I have had aftermarket C/A s on other sleds( they are good and made the difference on other sleds I had) and thought I may need them on my new 22 SBA 850. But after just basic sled set up for my weight and putting a set of stud boy 7.5 shaper bars on I don’t know if I’d change a thing... it rails and is not heavy to steer. Almost everyone said the pro steers are junk so I was thinking I was going to have to throw the C/As on..but no. Your sled sounds like it handles good from your description..
 

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Grippers would definitely be the easiest and cheapest upgrade
But the Grippers won't get you all the way aggressively as a C&A will.
I'm not endorsing the C&A as the best for everyone and with so many C&A ski model options you can't just try one and make an observation on C&A from trying one ski.
C&A has the most aggressive options if you're looking to not push on-trail hands down. SOME may say they stick to good and steer hard.
On hardpack the Carbide does the work. As it softens up the Host bar does more than the carbide. C&A has the longest Host Bar over any of the aftermarket skis that I've tried.
Then after we blow through the semi soft snow and get into the Powder the ski shape starts doing its job.
C&A does a great job but in my opinion there's also other great aftermarket skis.
I'm not a fan at all of the Pro-Steers. They are a good hard pack trail ski and that's where it ends.
 

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But the Grippers won't get you all the way aggressively as a C&A will.
I'm not endorsing the C&A as the best for everyone and with so many C&A ski model options you can't just try one and make an observation on C&A from trying one ski.
C&A has the most aggressive options if you're looking to not push on-trail hands down. SOME may say they stick to good and steer hard.
On hardpack the Carbide does the work. As it softens up the Host bar does more than the carbide. C&A has the longest Host Bar over any of the aftermarket skis that I've tried.
Then after we blow through the semi soft snow and get into the Powder the ski shape starts doing its job.
C&A does a great job but in my opinion there's also other great aftermarket skis.
I'm not a fan at all of the Pro-Steers. They are a good hard pack trail ski and that's where it ends.
Not disagreeing with you. I am a die-hard C&A guy and have tried the Razor, XCS and XPTs (am presently running the latter). I personally find the XPTs are not quite aggressive enough ( I hate understeer) and have found that adding Bergstrom Ski Savers (plastic keel strips) has made them about perfect (for my riding style and 2017 ZR 6000 R XC).
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Not disagreeing with you. I am a die-hard C&A guy and have tried the Razor, XCS and XPTs (am presently running the latter). I personally find the XPTs are not quite aggressive enough ( I hate understeer) and have found that adding Bergstrom Ski Savers (plastic keel strips) has made them about perfect (for my riding style and 2017 ZR 6000 R XC).
So you are running the XCS? -- which is what I have been thinking about because they look super aggressive. With Bergstrom runners or is C&A the only supplier of carbides for their skis?
 

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So you are running the XCS? -- which is what I have been thinking about because they look super aggressive. With Bergstrom runners or is C&A the only supplier of carbides for their skis?
I tried the XCS a few years back but am now on the XPTs (my sled has a 129-in track with 90 studs). The XCS were quite aggressive and are likely overkill for a 129/137 trail sled.

I am currently running Bergstrom Triple Points and the results so far are quite good. In the past, I ran Shaper Bars nad had excellent results. Mt next try will be Woody's ACE bars. I strongly recommend Bergstrom Ski Savers (for the XPTs; the extra 1/4" of keel makes them perfect) regardless of the runners you choose
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Anybody tried C&A's aggressive XCS ski's with Snowtracker's? The package is about the same price as XCS's with Bergs but Snowtrackers would lighten the steering up vs. the Bergs. Seems like they should work really well together.
 

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The info and options on skis and carbide are really one of those personal ( like an oil thread) for me it’s hard to give advice because everyone has there own “feel” on what works well. Lots of good choices no doubt. I think we would all be a bit surprised if we put a quality runner on and worked on suspension set up. ( yes a good keel helps) My 22 SBA with just 7.5 shaper bars and suspension adjustments is frankly amazing in the handling department. I have a set of C&As for it off my viper but have no reason to swap. Again, I played with set-up and it’s where was at for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The info and options on skis and carbide are really one of those personal ( like an oil thread) for me it’s hard to give advice because everyone has there own “feel” on what works well. Lots of good choices no doubt. I think we would all be a bit surprised if we put a quality runner on and worked on suspension set up. ( yes a good keel helps) My 22 SBA with just 7.5 shaper bars and suspension adjustments is frankly amazing in the handling department. I have a set of C&As for it off my viper but have no reason to swap. Again, I played with set-up and it’s where was at for me.
Absolutely agree. Choices are very personal and everyone is set up differently. I gave my particular set up and desired outcome for my sled in my first pos. Looking for general feedback from all but particularly those that might share a similar set up and goal.

So far I am down to C & A RZ's or XCS paired with either Bergstrom triple points or Snowtrackers. I haven't seen much feedback on those combo's especially the Snowtrackers. The really aggressive XCS with Snowtrackers to lighten up the steering effort seems like a winning combo to me. Just not sure how well it works on this chassis.
 

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Throwing Snow trackers on a set of C&A’s imo, you are just defeating the purpose of the C&A skis. Aggressiveness. The trackers will cover up the benefit of the keels. So best to put trackers on a less aggressive ski. C&A’s are hard to turn for a reason. They shine in loose/medium packed snow during aggressive riding.trail riding slow, radial turns, they will feel hard to turn your bars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Throwing Snow trackers on a set of C&A’s imo, you are just defeating the purpose of the C&A skis. Aggressiveness. The trackers will cover up the benefit of the keels. So best to put trackers on a less aggressive ski. C&A’s are hard to turn for a reason. They shine in loose/medium packed snow during aggressive riding.trail riding slow, radial turns, they will feel hard to turn your bars.
Good point. I thought they might be able to work in tandem but I see now from the Snowtracker Agressive instructions that you are supposed to completely lighten up the front end pressure when installing. This is the opposite of what I want and currently have the sled set up for. Triple points and RZ's are looking better now. I spend no time off trail so I'm better off saving the money and going with the Rz vs the XCS and putting that towards carbides.
 

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Good point. I thought they might be able to work in tandem but I see now from the Snowtracker Agressive instructions that you are supposed to completely lighten up the front end pressure when installing. This is the opposite of what I want and currently have the sled set up for. Triple points and RZ's are looking better now. I spend no time off trail so I'm better off saving the money and going with the Rz vs the XCS and putting that towards carbides.
and the Bergstrom Ski Savers will be the cherry on your sundae
 
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