Hardcore Sledder banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,498 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This afternoon I had my first encounter of the year about 1/4 mile south of c-38 on trail 4. The dumb ass is going to debate which one of use gets the high side of a corner,well guess who won? Unfortunately for him,he buried it on the other side of the rail trying to move when he saw I wasn't. I ask him "just where the hell do you think your going?" His replywas "I dont know". So I informed him which way he was heading (lon) and then called in him and his plate to the sheriff. I wont go into detail w/ the conversation I had w/ the dispatcher,but his response was" well, if he is on a road ,he can be there".I told dispatch that "he wasnt on a road anymore!",and all he wanted to know was if the guy needed assistance,I told him "naw,he's just fine where he's at". Now the point here is that trail 4 IS a seasonal road,but you cant know that in the winter and there are no road signs indicating that,but a significant mess was made on a designated trail by a person who had no business being there at the time.I'm sure if someone crashed in his 2' deep ruts,the first person to get a call from a lawyer would be the person who groomed the trail,not the guy in the truck.The apparent lack of concern by the antrim co sheriff dept REALLY disapointed me.They sure dont have any problem ticketing sleds for being on a road for various bs reasons,but when it comes down to a situation like this its an "oh well" attitude.I guess the bottom line here is that the idiot in the truck has no clue how luckey he was that I was in the jvtc groomer and not on my sled,because if I was ,that truck would be on the side of the trail for a LONG time.Now I have vented somewhat, and will sit by the window and watch the snow fall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,078 Posts
gee....did the truck have an orv sticker??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,498 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
gee....did the truck have an orv sticker??[/b]
Nope,didnt have a trail permit either..........................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,474 Posts
This afternoon I had my first encounter of the year about 1/4 mile south of c-38 on trail 4. The dumb ass is going to debate which one of use gets the high side of a corner,well guess who won? Unfortunately for him,he buried it on the other side of the rail trying to move when he saw I wasn't. I ask him "just where the hell do you think your going?" His replywas "I dont know". So I informed him which way he was heading (lon) and then called in him and his plate to the sheriff. I wont go into detail w/ the conversation I had w/ the dispatcher,but his response was" well, if he is on a road ,he can be there".I told dispatch that "he wasnt on a road anymore!",and all he wanted to know was if the guy needed assistance,I told him "naw,he's just fine where he's at". Now the point here is that trail 4 IS a seasonal road,but you cant know that in the winter and there are no road signs indicating that,but a significant mess was made on a designated trail by a person who had no business being there at the time.I'm sure if someone crashed in his 2' deep ruts,the first person to get a call from a lawyer would be the person who groomed the trail,not the guy in the truck.The apparent lack of concern by the antrim co sheriff dept REALLY disapointed me.They sure dont have any problem ticketing sleds for being on a road for various bs reasons,but when it comes down to a situation like this its an "oh well" attitude.I guess the bottom line here is that the idiot in the truck has no clue how luckey he was that I was in the jvtc groomer and not on my sled,because if I was ,that truck would be on the side of the trail for a LONG time.Now I have vented somewhat, and will sit by the window and watch the snow fall.[/b]

trbomax - If it is a seasonal road don't vehicles have the right to travel them? I know many hunters do through Jan 1 for hunting and some fisherman through the winter but never really understood the law.
 

·
Premium Member
‘21 Indy 600 SP 137 & 2015 RMK 155 LE
Joined
·
25,388 Posts
I think I have seen more vehicles on the sled trails in the past two years
than ever before. Had a truck back out onto Fletcher Rd. after attempting
to head north on the 6/7 trail on me about 2 weeks ago and that section
of trail is JUST a sled trail.

That was the question of the day, the other day between friends....
Can a vehicle still be on a seasonal road that is a sled trail in the winter,
or not? I was always under the assumption that it IS a county road and
vehicle were allowed on it, no matter the season. :dunno:
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
17,622 Posts
I think I have seen more vehicles on the sled trails in the past two years
than ever before. Had a truck back out onto Fletcher Rd. after attempting
to head north on the 6/7 trail on me about 2 weeks ago and that section
of trail is JUST a sled trail.

That was the question of the day, the other day between friends....
Can a vehicle still be on a seasonal road that is a sled trail in the winter,
or not? I was always under the assumption that it IS a county road and
vehicle were allowed on it, no matter the season. :dunno:[/b]

I am very interested in finding out the law on this and I'll be looking into it this week...........I'VE HAD IT WITH THIS PROBLEM!!! It comes down to safety not rights.....many situations over the past few years could have been deadly! :furious2: :censored: :wall:

IF it is legal then why even groom the trail.....seems like a waist to me. :dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,498 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I am very interested in finding out the law on this and I'll be looking into it this week...........I'VE HAD IT WITH THIS PROBLEM!!! It comes down to safety not rights.....many situations over the past few years could have been deadly! :furious2: :censored: :wall:

IF it is legal then why even groom the trail.....seems like a waist to me. :dunno:[/b]
Well I guess the responce of the antrim co sheriff gives you the answer.They told me "they CAN be there.My response was that "can be and ohta be are not the same.Would I get a ticket for driveing my sled down that road in july w/o a trail/orv permit? Damn betcha!".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,828 Posts
There's no rhyme or reasoning with complete assholes....they just don't get it and never will!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,573 Posts
You should have ran him over. I passed you on sunday i think it was, i was on a red yamaha vector and you were just turning a corner on a road and then we passed you again i was on my old supersport and we were pulling my friends indy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,498 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
There's no rhyme or reasoning with complete assholes....they just don't get it and never will![/b]
I think that what this all comes down to is "intrerpretation of the laws that apply".A truck on any plowed or maintained county road,seasonal or not,that is being used as a designated snowmobile trail,is NOT the same as a truck on an unplowed,unmaintained seasonal road that is being used as a designated snowmobile trail.Safety and common sense should prevail here.

I think we should all call 231 533 8627 tomorrow and ask for antrim county sheriff Terry Johnson,then ask him how HE interprets it !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,078 Posts
I think that what this all comes down to is "intrerpretation of the laws that apply".A truck on any plowed or maintained county road,seasonal or not,that is being used as a designated snowmobile trail,is NOT the same as a truck on an unplowed,unmaintained seasonal road that is being used as a designated snowmobile trail.Safety and common sense should prevail here.

I think we should all call 231 533 8627 tomorrow and ask for antrim county sheriff Terry Johnson,then ask him how HE interprets it ![/b]
That WOULD be the diplomatic approach....and if you dont get the result youre looking for, the next step would be a letter with supporting photo's and an explanation as to the hazards's along with the lax response youre getting, and send same to the Committee on outdoor recreation and tourism, your state representative, MSA, and Bill Manson. Share the letter and the response with us all out here. Never know it might get it fixed right away, could be cannon fodder later.

Trick here people, is phone calls DO NOT EXIST later. Letters and documented responses get it done.

Turbo, if it were me I would send the Sheirff a letter addressing the issue and the course of action taken, with a request for his opinion and intended future action if this problem arises again....it's not like you have a urgent timeframe, damage has been done.

(just a suggestion, hope I am not bargin in, best of luck with the issue, be glad to help out if you need it)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,498 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
That WOULD be the diplomatic approach....and if you dont get the result youre looking for, the next step would be a letter with supporting photo's and an explanation as to the hazards's along with the lax response youre getting, and send same to the Committee on outdoor recreation and tourism, your state representative, MSA, and Bill Manson. Share the letter and the response with us all out here. Never know it might get it fixed right away, could be cannon fodder later.

Trick here people, is phone calls DO NOT EXIST later. Letters and documented responses get it done.

Turbo, if it were me I would send the Sheirff a letter addressing the issue and the course of action taken, with a request for his opinion and intended future action if this problem arises again....it's not like you have a urgent timeframe, damage has been done.

(just a suggestion, hope I am not bargin in, best of luck with the issue, be glad to help out if you need it)[/b]

Good idea, But I'll bet a weeks pay (and you know thats a lot) I'd never get a response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,818 Posts
turbo, I totally respect how hard you work for us on the trails. :thumbsup:

That was the question of the day, the other day between friends.... Can a vehicle still be on a seasonal road that is a sled trail in the winter, or not? I was always under the assumption that it IS a county road and vehicle were allowed on it, no matter the season. :dunno:[/b]
You assumed correct. Just because it is not plowed, and sleds use it, doesn't change its designation as a ROAD first.

IF it is legal then why even groom the trail.....seems like a waist to me. :dunno:[/b]
Can you imagine what it would look like if they didn't? Your whole trip up to the bridge would be a nightmare. I've encountered many trucks on the stretch of 6/7 from 300 up til the p-lot. They have a right, just wave when I go by... it's all we can do. :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,498 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
turbo, I totally respect how hard you work for us on the trails. :thumbsup:
You assumed correct. Just because it is not plowed, and sleds use it, doesn't change its designation as a ROAD first.
Can you imagine what it would look like if they didn't? Your whole trip up to the bridge would be a nightmare. I've encountered many trucks on the stretch of 6/7 from 300 up til the p-lot. They have a right, just wave when I go by... it's all we can do. :thumbsup:[/b]
I guess sometimes the ONLY justice is VIGILANTE justice.Need to remember that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,818 Posts
I guess sometimes the ONLY justice is VIGILANTE justice.Need to remember that.[/b]
Sorry if I don't get your point. As hard as groomers work on trails, we 'borrow' roads during our season, and would love if people didn't drive on them during our short season. BUT... it IS a road, and they DO have the right to <strike>mess it up </strike> use it no matter the season. I'm sure it's aggravating as a groomer to see your work destroyed. The only alternative would be to secure another route that is NOT a road first. FWIW, IMO. :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,271 Posts
Turbo,
We are still having a problem with that around here too. Groomer Dave had a great one last week. The ass came tearing up a freshly groomed trail behind the groomer and was weaving back and fourth as he came up on it. Dave pulled to the extreme outside of the corner as usual to bring the snow to the inside, and the small truck darted to the inside and PASSED HIM! The drag almost took him out when it slid to the inside! He kept going like he was doing nothing wrong.

We have had this issue in the past too, but it didn't seem as bad as this year. We have also been given the line that they are allowed to be there, yada yada. What we usually do is report them to the Sheriff, and if they have someone available, they will usually stop them and check them for beer and stuff, but I don't think they automatically get a ticket for driving on a groomed trail, except our FFS trails, which are signed "no wheeled vehicles" If they get stuck on the trail, they are reported to to the sheriff, who checks them out, who call the local AAA wrecker, who will get them if they can. They will usually collect extra $$ and donate it to the club to go and fix the trail (this usually pisses them off good). If the wrecker can't get to them, we charge them $100 to get them unstuck with the groomer ONE time, and to fix the trail. We will charge them a hook up fee if they get stuck again. This is usually in conjunction with the wrecker, as we will use their chains and straps, and operator. If it is someone working or a land owner or something I would give them a break, but someone out dinking around on the trail is a whole other matter. Oh ya, and once they are found stuck out there, the sheriff backs us up, and tells them that they have to get the vehicle off the trail, they can't leave it there.

This is one of the issues that seems to fall in a gray area. We do need to get a statewide ruling on this from an authority. Once that happens, we can just fax the ruling to the local PO.

Keep on grooming... (snowed all day up here, but only on the peninsula)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,498 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Turbo,
We are still having a problem with that around here too. Groomer Dave had a great one last week. The ass came tearing up a freshly groomed trail behind the groomer and was weaving back and fourth as he came up on it. Dave pulled to the extreme outside of the corner as usual to bring the snow to the inside, and the small truck darted to the inside and PASSED HIM! The drag almost took him out when it slid to the inside! He kept going like he was doing nothing wrong.

We have had this issue in the past too, but it didn't seem as bad as this year. We have also been given the line that they are allowed to be there, yada yada. What we usually do is report them to the Sheriff, and if they have someone available, they will usually stop them and check them for beer and stuff, but I don't think they automatically get a ticket for driving on a groomed trail, except our FFS trails, which are signed "no wheeled vehicles" If they get stuck on the trail, they are reported to to the sheriff, who checks them out, who call the local AAA wrecker, who will get them if they can. They will usually collect extra $$ and donate it to the club to go and fix the trail (this usually pisses them off good). If the wrecker can't get to them, we charge them $100 to get them unstuck with the groomer ONE time, and to fix the trail. We will charge them a hook up fee if they get stuck again. This is usually in conjunction with the wrecker, as we will use their chains and straps, and operator. If it is someone working or a land owner or something I would give them a break, but someone out dinking around on the trail is a whole other matter. Oh ya, and once they are found stuck out there, the sheriff backs us up, and tells them that they have to get the vehicle off the trail, they can't leave it there.

This is one of the issues that seems to fall in a gray area. We do need to get a statewide ruling on this from an authority. Once that happens, we can just fax the ruling to the local PO.

Keep on grooming... (snowed all day up here, but only on the peninsula)[/b]
Its just a lack of respect for other peoples work and things,christ, we only use it 3 or 4 months a year when they cant anyway............................I'm going grooming on the bear and see if I can stir something up down there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
I've been flipping off the same guy in a Toyota for the last 5 years on the St.Helen to Houghton Lake trail. Every Sunday morning, on the freshly groomed trail, is the same *** with his dog hunting boxes in the back of his truck. Every time I go by I politely flip him the bird and go on my way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,498 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Another point and then I'm outa here.People say a lot of sh^$ about the kaski sheriff,but at least they come out ,give the person a lesson in manners and find any exsuse they can to ticket them for something.Is that harassment? Well in a way,but at least there is (imo) just cause.I really resent being blown off and ignored by law enforcement.I know someone at acsd is going to take this personally and bitch to someone about my rant,personally I DONT CARE,because I dont really believe its department policy I'm talking about,just a couple (or maybe only one) person(s) with the attitude.So if the shoe fits................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,454 Posts
Sorry if I don't get your point. As hard as groomers work on trails, we 'borrow' roads during our season, and would love if people didn't drive on them during our short season. BUT... it IS a road, and they DO have the right to <strike>mess it up </strike> use it no matter the season. I'm sure it's aggravating as a groomer to see your work destroyed. The only alternative would be to secure another route that is NOT a road first. FWIW, IMO. :thumbsup:[/b]
If he didn't groom it the truck would have never made it down it. stay off the trails with the trucks please the cops ride sleds on the trails not trucks.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top