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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Talked to my dealer about lack of top-end on my new F1 - 170hp should pull more than 100mph - you would think

He asks what grade of fuel I'm running?

...High Test - 900 miles of it.

He says thats my problem - Higher Octane fuel burns hotter and triggers the Knock sensor / egt probe ?? in pipe.

telling the ecu - it is running to hot - therfore retarding the timming - loss of HP

Other symptoms is the 3-4 pull hot starts and higher idle before shutting off.

Will Running 87 cure my problems??
 

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Talked to my dealer about lack of top-end on my new F1 - 170hp should pull more than 100mph - you would think

He asks what grade of fuel I'm running?

...High Test - 900 miles of it.

He says thats my problem - Higher Octane fuel burns hotter and triggers the Knock sensor / egt probe ?? in pipe.

telling the ecu - it is running to hot - therfore retarding the timming - loss of HP

Other symptoms is the 3-4 pull hot starts and higher idle before shutting off.

Will Running 87 cure my problems??[/b]

He got it backwards...high octane burns colder and slower...if you are stock no mods ,you run regular fuel.

Hotter and faster burn means more hp

It is not retarding your timing.

These engines seem to heatsoak/vapour lock after they are run hard....hence three or four pulls when it is still hot

Let it idle down to 1800 rpm`s before you shut it off.
 

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87 is the fuel you want to use if you're stock or only running a y-pipe, that's what the ecu is programmed for. There's some concern that opening the left side intake and using the y-pipe could cause lean issues on the 08 F1000 on top during long pulls. Higher octane burns cooler. Octane is only a measure of a fuel's resistance to detonation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I thought this sounded odd.

Every AC and Toy I've ever owned I have run High test Fuel.

If this is still the problem, that this engine doesn't like high octane fuel, it effects the performance considerably.

I wonder how much hp I'm I losing when using High test?

any info is much appreciated!
 

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To my knowledge the F1000 doesn't even have a knock sensor, so the dealer is blowing smoke up your you know what. 92 octane is less resistant to detonation. It neither burns hotter or cooler. If your engine is prone to detonation, then detonation will cause it to run hotter. If 92 octane eliminates the detonation, your engine will run cooler, not because the 92 octane burns cooler, but because it prevents detonation.

Detonation is the ignition of the fuel before the spark plug tells it to. 87 octane ignites easier and at a lower temperature and pressure then #92. So if you are working your engine hard and temps are getting up and you have a higher compression ratio, then 87 octane will ignite before the spark occurs, creating too much ignition advance and detonation. The piston is still on its way up when the #87 ignites prematurely and is trying to drive the piston back down. #92 has a higher ignition point and will not ignite under these conditions of high temps and pressure until the spark occurs. Thus no detonation.

Just because #92 has a higher ignition point, makes people think it burns hotter, but that is not true. One has nothing to do with the other! If your engine runs detonation free with #87, then #92 will not have any effect on it at all. You are merely throwing your money away on the more expensive fuel. Other factors may come into play such as the amount of alcohol and other additives in the fuel to give it the 92 octane, but the effect of the higher octane itself will be zero.

I see #92 octane as a safety device, especially in engines WTHOUT a knock sensor. Since there is no way for the engine to be protected from detonation caused by any number of factors, the higher octane is your only defence against detonation. Your engine might be designed to run on #87, but what if you get a stale batch that is only at 82 octane. Even stale #92 will probably have a higher octane level then fresh #87.

I think it is more advantageous for Cat to advertise that all their engines run on #87. It is less expensive and more readily available and has less additives then some #92's. But for any modern Company to make a 2-stroke without a knock sensor is redicoulous, so we have to protect our engines as best we can. I think blaming poor performance on #92 is a cop out. If Cat wants us to run only #87, then design an EFI system that isn't from the stone ages!
 

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I wonder if the f-8 would benefit from using 92 octane fuel as it has the knock sensor and should be able to run leaner.
 

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Over 2200miles this year.I only used 87 and mpg/can gallon was around 13 .Last ride ,I decided to try 92 on my second tank. Big difference in fuel .Made about 13.5 in pretty good trails on the first tank. On the second tank with 92 in the afternoon when the trails are not so good made 14.7mpg . I think that if that second tank would have been done on trails like in the morning ,I would have gone over 15.5,16 mpg.So great improvement in mileage for a little difference in price. That will give a range of about 160 miles and not 135 miles. I have y-pipe ,v-force ,bullseyes,slp vent.From now on ,I will utilize 92.
 

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Over 2200miles this year.I only used 87 and mpg/can gallon was around 13 .Last ride ,I decided to try 92 on my second tank. Big difference in fuel .Made about 13.5 in pretty good trails on the first tank. On the second tank with 92 in the afternoon when the trails are not so good made 14.7mpg . I think that if that second tank would have been done on trails like in the morning ,I would have gone over 15.5,16 mpg.So great improvement in mileage for a little difference in price. That will give a range of about 160 miles and not 135 miles. I have y-pipe ,v-force ,bullseyes,slp vent.From now on ,I will utilize 92.[/b]
Not sure on mileage but the extra cost of the fuel and the fact that your not getting full potential out of your engine and your not saving money by running it as not enough diff in mpg to help. 87 octane will make more horsepower! Just a known fact on cats engines!
 

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Cat said last year that over 87 is a no-no-,,,, so just fill it up with reg fuel...
 

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Talked to my dealer about lack of top-end on my new F1 - 170hp should pull more than 100mph - you would think

He asks what grade of fuel I'm running?

...High Test - 900 miles of it.

He says thats my problem - Higher Octane fuel burns hotter and triggers the Knock sensor / egt probe ?? in pipe.

telling the ecu - it is running to hot - therfore retarding the timming - loss of HP

Other symptoms is the 3-4 pull hot starts and higher idle before shutting off.

Will Running 87 cure my problems??[/b]
if your losing horsepower then your engine shouldn't be able to pull the suggested rpms on perfect conditions at wfo on a long run. mine will run 7250-7350 on the tach and my speeds have been anywhere from 105-114.. damn sled is real inconsistent on top. but she always rips to a 100 no mattter what!! this is on 87 octane.

the sled will start better if you get in the habbit of using the throttle just a tiny bit on that second pull if it doesn't take off right away on the first pull and the idle system on these engines is strange.lol
 

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You will lose performance if you run higher than 87

This has been gone over literally hundreds of times on this and every board on the net. It has also been beat to death by the factory, on every performance related item in the last 3 years. It blows my mind that there is still any argument on the topic....
 

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You will lose performance if you run higher than 87

This has been gone over literally hundreds of times on this and every board on the net. It has also been beat to death by the factory, on every performance related item in the last 3 years. It blows my mind that there is still any argument on the topic....[/b]
Krom I know what you are saying but read the tech shorts on page 52 of Snow Techs February issue, it has some interesting facts on engines with knock sensors and fuel requirements.
 

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I am running 87 oct now with y pipe air box mod and clucthing, sled is a animal runs down ported machz's and ported f1000's. I can't belive the difference. its running on the edge but does it ever work. 125mph blk f1000. sqaure symbol ecu.
 

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Last year this was beat to death. A few guys wanted to throw me under the bus after I said we had a few f10s running over 120 at the beginning of last year on regular gas. One was a dog and after switching from premium it ran much better. If you get fresh premium it will probably be fine but there is no such thing up here. Sits far too long and runs like crap in your sled. If you mod you can use boondocker to build in a little more fuel for safety when modding more than air box or y-pipe. If you start changing squish, dome configuration, compression porting then you need to look at octane for safety in my opinion.

Jester
 

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My old Sabercat700 ran 118 mph& lasted ME 5000 miles, now the second owner has it, much to his delight,still outrunning all F8& many F10 all on 87 octane.
 

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if you go to D&D racings website and look under installation instructions it clearly states that if you use a y pipe you must run premium fuel (92 octane or higher)
 

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Krom I know what you are saying but read the tech shorts on page 52 of Snow Techs February issue, it has some interesting facts on engines with knock sensors and fuel requirements.[/b]
If you want to believe some hack from sno tech, over the guys that designed the engine, its up to you. by the way the F1000 doesn't have a knock sensor.
 

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If you want to believe some hack from sno tech, over the guys that designed the engine, its up to you. by the way the F1000 doesn't have a knock sensor.[/b]
I realize the 1000 doesn't have the sensor I was refering to the 800's, and I would be curious to know if the sensor can detect the cooler burning fuel and therefore compensate with retarted timing and a leaner a/f ratio
 

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If you want to believe some hack from sno tech, over the guys that designed the engine, its up to you. by the way the F1000 doesn't have a knock sensor.[/b]
good post
 

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good post[/b]
the problem with this site is you get too many different opinions! i am about to install a y pipe, air box mod, and clutch(08'f1000) and just want to know the truth. some people say you have to have a boondocker, some (d&d)say you only have to run premium fuel, and some say to run 87 with this setup. who do you believe?
 
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