[Phantom Rider]

Lets face it... Unless something changes how many riders are going to be able to put fuel in their machines and how many times or how often are clubs going to be able to run groomers without more money going to clubs?

Comments...

 

[xcbuc]

I know this is New York forum, but I thought I would share from WI. I'm sure this will be discussed in the summer or Fall AWSC meetings in WI. Normally, you could request supplemental funding once the $300 per mile is used up. That's not going to take much this year! If it's a snowy year, supplemental will be depleted pretty fast and then it falls on the clubs to fit the bill.
Not sure on how New York does it?
Here's info on WI to get perspective: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/sites/default/files/topic/Aid/grants/snow/CF0017.pdf

 

[sleeping_dragon]

Theoretically if there are less sleds the trails wont need as much grooming

 

[SGPopp]

I ride on trails that are complete garbage 4 hours after a groomer has passed. I wont ride any less because trails aren't smooth.

 

[Rakrem]

Theoretically if there are less sleds the trails wont need as much grooming

Less sleds , yes likely. Fuel has doubled though for the groomers. Who knows where it could be by fall / winter?

 

[Lid2]

Groomer / no groomer /bumps /no bumps. Idc. If it’s that bad it will give me a reason to focus more on the race track.

 

[sleeping_dragon]

Groomer / no groomer /bumps /no bumps. Idc. If it’s that bad it will give me a reason to focus more on the race track.

Yep
and for those of us that rode a lot in the 90s when sledding was at its peak,the bumps will still be smalller and obviously the suspensions are built to take the bumps way better now.I always laugh if I ride wigh a group that is whining about 6” bumps in the trail.

 

[SHOOT2KILL2]

Here in Wisconsin the SNARS groomer tracking system will be everyones friend...You will be able to see who is groomed and who isnt...I was told that ALL groomers in the state will eventually be in the system if they want to get paid for mileage...


Counties must have entered all expenses in the Snowmobile Automated Reporting System (SNARS) and submitted to the DNR for audit purposes, along with a request for reimbursement within 6 months of the expiration date of the grant, unless they are requesting supplemental in which case the deadline is August 1. [s. NR 50.09(4)(f)4, Wis. Adm. Code

 

[horsefly]

And so it goes, currently sledders chase the snow through maps and websites, residents in those areas will report of the masses congregating according to that information and those areas getting saturated with snowmobiles. Now we can zero in even closer to the most recently groomed surfaces. Not bitch'n just saying, those with access to and understanding of technology will have an inherent advantage. Me I'm looking for a tour guide, hopefully I'll get invited along somewhere, anything beyond pen and paper is troubling. Happy Father's Day.

 

[Trail Ryder]

If your sled gets 15 MPG and you ride a 1,000 miles per year, $3.00 per gallon versus $6.00 per gallon equates to a whopping $200 per year.

NYSSA has anticipated this fuel increase for some time and has proposed raising the registration fee by a whopping $20 per year to help buy fuel for the groomers. New York already has some of the cheapest snowmobile registration costs in North America.

We live in a world of $6,000+ snowmobile trailers, $15,000+ new snowmobiles, $50,000+ tow vehicles, and people still complain about the pennies.

I will find a way to buy fuel for my sled and truck, and do not plan to ride my sled any less this upcoming season.

 

[scott0700]

Multiply that extra $3 a gallon by every gallon you buy for every mile you drive your vehicle and the play money a lot of people have for leisure activities disappears quickly. Add in food inflation, higher interest rates, etc and the picture gets much worse.
Good for you if you can continue to afford it. Many won’t be able to.

 

[Trail Ryder]

Yeah, fuel prices will definitely encourage me to do more "local" riding. Another counter measure is getting back to the basics and doing things like packing a lunch, and making budget adjustments elsewhere. For father's day, rather than go out to eat, I cooked a $10 steak on the grill and drink a decent $1.00 beer at home .... far cheaper than the local pub and just as tasty.

I find it somewhat funny when guys with $80,000 plus tied up into their tow vehicle, sled(s), and trailer don't go riding "due to the price of fuel".

Me thinks there will be A LOT of low-miles used toys / luxury items for sale soon, as a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck DESPITE THEIR INCOME LEVEL.

 

[mogulmanGT]

Yeah, fuel prices will definitely encourage me to do more "local" riding. Another counter measure is getting back to the basics and doing things like packing a lunch, and making budget adjustments elsewhere. For father's day, rather than go out to eat, I cooked a $10 steak on the grill and drink a decent $1.00 beer at home .... far cheaper than the local pub and just as tasty.

I find it somewhat funny when guys with $80,000 plus tied up into their tow vehicle, sled(s), and trailer don't go riding "due to the price of fuel".

Me thinks there will be A LOT of low-miles used toys / luxury items for sale soon, as a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck DESPITE THEIR INCOME LEVEL.

Wait… What?? Where the “HELL” did you find a $10.00 steak. 🤣😂🤙🏼

 

[Trail Ryder]

Wait… What?? Where the “HELL” did you find a $10.00 steak. 🤣😂🤙🏼

I buy them from a local farmer, who will sell you one steak at time if you want, except he only does sales on Saturday mornings. It's high quality beef at a great price.

This guy typically has 200 to 400 head of Angus at any given time. And these last few years, the price of his beef that he sells locally and to the grocery stores has BARELY gone up. He tells me the price of sunlight, rain, and grass hasn't gone up at all. He grows his own hay, but again, he says the price of harvesting that has gone up but the price per bail increase (due to diesel) is almost negligible. And the slaughter house is only a few miles from his farm.

And yet, many middle men and grocery stores have doubled prices even though diesel fuel is small contributor to the overall price. Many in America are getting fleeced.

 

[Rakrem]

I buy them from a local farmer, who will sell you one steak at time if you want, except he only does sales on Saturday mornings. It's high quality beef at a great price.

This guy typically has 200 to 400 head of Angus at any given time. And these last few years, the price of his beef that he sells locally and to the grocery stores has BARELY gone up. He tells me the price of sunlight, rain, and grass hasn't gone up at all. He grows his own hay, but again, he says the price of harvesting that has gone up but the price per bail increase (due to diesel) is almost negligible. And the slaughter house is only a few miles from his farm.

And yet, many middle men and grocery stores have doubled prices even though diesel fuel is small contributor to the overall price. Many in America are getting fleeced.

Your farmer has a unique arrangement then.... I agree with all the in store items as yes it’s costing more to do most anything but they are also taking advantage to use current trend to Jack prices beyond what’s necessary. I don’t care to say it, people ultimately at the top in charge are seemingly wanting it this way.. it’s obvious, they blame it on anything but themselves.

 

[mrbb]

IMO< all the more so in current times,
but I really think the majority of modern snowmobile riders are in the low income level
as a GUESS, I would gather most are making more than the average annual home income, and as such, I gather a LOT of these folks will just grin and bare it , just because they can!
I think the die hard snowmobile on lower income will be the most effected by current prices, but also I believe a lot of these folks are folks that tend to live near or on trails as to those that travel far to ride ( as even in good yrs traveling far to ride is NOT a cheap venture for folks on lower incomes to begin with)
I am not saying all snowmobile riders are wealthy or rich

but I would have to believe that based on the costs of a truck, trailer, NEW/newer sled, and assorted other costs to being a snowmobiler,
its not really a sport anymore for folks on low income, unless again you happen to live next to a trail system or remote place where snow is often and long and there more of a need than a EXTRA TOY deal, or like turning tools to enjoy older sleds!
face it, its not a cheap sport even in Lower fuel times!

I think most that wait 7-8+ months a yr to ride a toy a 1000- miles or so, ain;t hurting for cash to feed themselves!
yes crazy high prices will limit things for some, but I see few staying home now on summer vacations, lakes here are busy as always, , as are high ways, and local airports are breaking records on travelers wanting to go places
I see little change come winter
the old Credit card to the rescue, play now, PAY later !, HAHA!

HELL 7 out of 10 folks they say are in debt now, really think anything there is going to stop many from digging deeper holes , its the new american way of life, finance away everything so you have it NOW!!

 

[Trail Ryder]

HELL 7 out of 10 folks they say are in debt now, really think anything there is going to stop many from digging deeper holes , its the new american way of life, finance away everything so you have it NOW!!

If the goal in life is too own the most toys and have the most fun, doing it by paying interest to the bank and enjoying the maximum depreciation is NOT the way to do it.

I knew a guy, and he and his wife together made decent money, and in the driveway and garage they had it all (boat, PWCs, ATVs, camper, dirt bike, snowmobiles, etc.) and all bought on credit. And he seemed to never have the time to use them or the money to fuel or haul them. He'd usually sell them, as soon as they were paid off, with low hours and for half of what he paid for them. And then repeat this cycle over and over again.

 

[mrbb]

If the goal in life is too own the most toys and have the most fun, doing it by paying interest to the bank and enjoying the maximum depreciation is NOT the way to do it.

I knew a guy, and he and his wife together made decent money, and in the driveway and garage they had it all (boat, PWCs, ATVs, camper, dirt bike, snowmobiles, etc.) and all bought on credit. And he seemed to never have the time to use them or the money to fuel or haul them. He'd usually sell them, as soon as they were paid off, with low hours and for half of what he paid for them. And then repeat this cycle over and over again.

I agree, and I know many folks that are so deep in debt' they will most likely never get out of it!

and then there are folks that know how to abuse the system
I had a friend growing up, his parents were super wealthy, owning many successful business's
my friend was spoiled written by parents, he was dumb as stone too, and mean that as nicely as one can
his parents GAVE him a job, his job was filling soda machines
he used to drive a Lamborghini , to work to go fill soda can machine's, lived in a million dollar plus home, and had all the toys , you could nae!
it was ALL on credit, loans out the wazzo
BUT he had fancy lawyers and was able to file bankruptcy and keep MOST things,
a few yrs later, he was again living in a larger house, had a dozen exotic cars(many still from first filling yet that never got taken due KNOWING how to use the system)
he has since gone thru like legal matters , over spending deep in debt, YET< he still lives HIGH on the dime, all on paper, but homes and garages full of toys
SO< some folks know how to magically abuse the system and this is why I think SO many go so deep in loans
they see folks get away with it and figure they will too, and sadly, MANY do!~
IMO<
its a poor example for the REAL working class, that live within there means,pay there bills and have PRIDE In not being in debt and themselves knowing they own NO one anything!
NOT really sure who has the better way of living at this point, as sure seems a lot of folks have figured out how to beat the system and live better off others dimes, than the true working class that pays for what they have !!
its a odd world we live in anymore!

 

[xcbuc]

.I was told that ALL groomers in the state will eventually be in the system if they want to get paid for mileage...

Correct. Last season was the first year of all clubs and groomers were required to use the GTS. Any funded trails that were groomed you should have been able to see through the app. Our clubs(Marquette) only groomed once due to low snow. It worked pretty well. I had to adjust some of the trail locations due to some reroutes. Installation was a breeze in both our groomers.

If your sled gets 15 MPG and you ride a 1,000 miles per year, $3.00 per gallon versus $6.00 per gallon equates to a whopping $200 per year.

NYSSA has anticipated this fuel increase for some time and has proposed raising the registration fee by a whopping $20 per year to help buy fuel for the groomers. New York already has some of the cheapest snowmobile registration costs in North America.

We live in a world of $6,000+ snowmobile trailers, $15,000+ new snowmobiles, $50,000+ tow vehicles, and people still complain about the pennies.

I will find a way to buy fuel for my sled and truck, and do not plan to ride my sled any less this upcoming season.

That's if we are lucky to get snow locally. Last year we had a horrible year for snow. Nothing was locally. I had to travel for all my trips. I made 3 day trips last year. There is no way I can afford the day trips this year. That's an extra $400 there comparing to this year just for fuel for my tow vehicle. Not including gas and oil for machines. I don't even drink when I'm out riding. Add in the increased food costs. During Covid, I did bring sack lunches. First time I did that it was -5F when we left. Went to eat my sandwich at lunch and it was 75% frozen!

Good to hear the NYSSA has an increase for it. What is current rate? In WI, if you join a club, $10 of that goes towards the state association. Rest goes towards clubs. Each club varies, but normally $25 a year. Then you have to buy the yearly trail pass($10 if belong to club).

 

[SHOOT2KILL2]

Correct. Last season was the first year of all clubs and groomers were required to use the GTS. Any funded trails that were groomed you should have been able to see through the app. Our clubs(Marquette) only groomed once due to low snow. It worked pretty well. I had to adjust some of the trail locations due to some reroutes. Installation was a breeze in both our groomers.

I dont remember Marquette county actually officially opening at any time last season...I saw the grooming/panning was done around Westfield as i would pass by on I39 heading south after riding in the northwoods...I rode Adams County 3 days in a row when they decided to open but they closed down in less than a week...BTW...Are they charging $$$ for the consumer to use the app ?