[sled-head]

Went up north 4 hours with the kids to snowmobile on saturday and my F7 died. The only thing I got the pleasure of doing was warming it up and pulling it off the trailer. we started to ride and the piece of junk died on me. It started to stall out then I let off the gas and it continued to idle then I started going again and it quit. I pulled the rope and it was tight so I knew I siezed it.......I broke it free and it started but wouldnt idle unless I was on the gas.........I phoned my dealer and he said my smart valve might of leaned it out and thats why it siezed. I am bringing it in on monday and he said he is going to tear it down right away and try to get the parts flown here but I am not holding my breath.........it looks like there is snow and I am out of a sled over the xmas holidays. On the positive side my Z120 ran flawless for my kids and there is now 2 more snowmobile freaks in my house.

 

[dave cat 7]

must just be fluke, nothing like that happens to f7's,
stupid question but did you or the dealer burp-it?

 

[dave cat 7]

p.s... was this the first time you rode it

 

[rob]

Bummer, Man..Sorry to hear that. But your dealer sounds like another moron.. The smart valves are in there to prevent any kind of problem as a sled runs out of gas..they could never cause a seizure! The Dumbass dealer just didn't bleed the sled properly EVEN AFTER all the service bulletins that have come out on this issue. I bet they are all still on his fax machine.

Read up on the info on these forums so at least you will be informed, (even if he is not).
Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[dave cat 7]

rob,
what is your honest opinion on this cold seizure? it doesnt sound like to me he even had the sled running long enough to seize it because of heat
my f7 has 50 miles on it and is getting the updates done, but if not for this web site
I too would have burned it down, because the day before we took off to ride i learned of this web site and sure enough heat exchangers not warming up, so me and the dealer burped at 4p.m. as he was closing.
i just cant figure these things out, me and 4 of my close buddys have f7's and at least one of us has had one of the posted problems here except for a melted motor

 

[sled-head]

Before yesterday I had 85 miles on it ........and a fun 85 miles. What is defective with the existing smartvalves? I thought they leaned the engine out to the point of stalling and is it possible that on excelleration it could lean out and burndown?? Thanks for the sympathy boys I feel better and I was looking for that poll on "who has had engine problems" because I want to change my vote LOL

PS
The coolant system was never bled after the bullitin and I did talk to him about it and he said it was OK

 

[rob]

I don't think much of the cold seizure theory..

I was told by AC that any engine failure with under 10 miles on the sled is certainly coolant related. The only one that I wondered about was Dan E.'s problem, but even there his dealer said it was a coolant bubble.

Some of these dealers have their heads so far up their asses they can't see daylight..
Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

(that's not meant to be aimed at all dealers.. As a matter of fact I think we should support those who know what they are doing and avoid the idiots at all cost)

 

[dave cat 7]

if the smart valve collapsed you would starve of fuel but not oil, the oil injection should not be affected by the fuel pick-up"smart valves" the oil pump is on linkage so it should inject too much oil and foul plugs

is this right?

 

[skydog]

Man that sucks, but i feel that if the smartvalves, are slowing down the fuel. (It started to stall out then I let off the gas and it continued to idle)It will and can make it lean!
I am thinking the smartvalves is why we a losing lots of F-cats. If it took 85 miles for a air pocket to work to the head that is scary!
Skydog P.S. I am doing my Smartvalve up date as soon as i can!!!

 

[skydog]

LACK of FUEL!! Take out some jets in a carb motor jet it down 30 sizes see how long it will run not very!
Did you see if the fuel pump slide down in the tank? That is a update too.
Skydog

 

[rob]

Originally posted by sled-head@Dec 22 2002, 03:31 PM
Before yesterday I had 85 miles on it ........and a fun 85 miles. What is defective with the existing smartvalves? I thought they leaned the engine out to the point of stalling and is it possible that on excelleration it could lean out and burndown?? Thanks for the sympathy boys I feel better and I was looking for that poll on "who has had engine problems" because I want to change my vote LOL

PS
The coolant system was never bled after the bullitin and I did talk to him about it and he said it was OK

An air bubble can be trapped in the rear cooler for many miles and then work its way to the head after a rough trail (or even trailering I bet). Same thing happened to Dan E's and he had over a hundred miles (Dan if you are reading please speak up).

If there's anyone else out there with low miles on and hasn't burped his sled cause his dealer said "it was OK", PLEASE bleed it again yourself just to be sure!

 

[dave cat 7]

if not having enough fuel, leaned a engine out to that point, then everytime someone runs out of gas on trail, they should be burning down their engines,
it doesnt make sense, especially after he already rode 85 miles
my personal opinion is that the ecu's are going wacko!

 

[rob]

Originally posted by Skydog@Dec 22 2002, 03:41 PM
LACK of FUEL!! Take out some jets in a carb motor jet it down 30 sizes see how long it will run not very!

if that were true I would have burnt down a lot more sleds than I have.

Think about it, on all of the 'smart-valve problems' we;ve heard on this site, not one has seized an engine. It ain't the smart valves!

 

[skydog]

YOu guys think it is the coolant deal still?? Two strokes can burn down when running out of gas!

 

[dave cat 7]

i agree with rob, now you got me wondering, want to leave day after christmas for a trip
sled is at dealer, he's not sure he will have the new smart valve in by christmas eve,
only open till noon on x-mas eve, so i have to pick up my sled by then
think i 'll call in the morning and ask him to burp it again
cat needs to design some type of bleed on that rear heat exchanger, like you have in hot water heating systems to get the air-out

 

[rob]

Originally posted by Skydog@Dec 22 2002, 03:47 PM
YOu guys think it is the coolant deal still?? Two strokes can burn down when running out of gas!

Yes, it is possible.. but the only time I heard of it happening from running out of gas is on a long lake run where the pistons are already hot, and a little more leaning will melt them. It AIN"T gonna happen when the guy is just starting out on a ride and just barely warming things up.. This was coolant related, I'd bet on it.

 

[skydog]

Right on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(cat needs to design some type of bleeder on that rear heat exchanger)
Skydog

 

[dave cat 7]

i bet R&D at cat is right on that, i liked to be a fly on the wall over there , i bet there some serious as chewing go-in on, any profit they will make on these machines is being burnt up by warranty work

 

[sled-head]

You guys bolth make valid arguments and I will know tomorrow morning what happened and I will post them. I noticed also that it was the PTO side plug that was black and looked carboned up the mag side was perfect. Just a question for you guys..........I buy a new sled every year and sometimes 2 if the early release is cool enough so I think I spend alot of money there and I know that xmas is wed so parts wont likely be here by the 27th because I had a trip planned. my dealer has a F7 regular on the floor should I ask him to strip parts and do you guys think he should or is this an unreasonable request on my part??.......I would like your opinion so I dont go asking and making an ass of myself.

 

[dave cat 7]

i would definetly tell him to strip the parts, you spent money on a product he sells and expect to be able to use it,
just curious did you try to change your plugs and start it,

black is not a indicator for too lean,
i had problems fouling plugs when i had the pre-mix (shit idea) in the tank,
went through 4 plugs till we found a gas station, so i could top off and dillute the pre-mix