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Discussion Starter #1
I was trying to put some more miles on the sled tonight and at the end of the ride heading back it died on me. I've only got about 50 miles on this 1st tank of gas, but I've got a lot of jack stand time considering all the burping and track realigning I did. Gas gauge still shows 1/8-1/4 tank. Before she died I heard an electric whining noise and then it just died as if I git the kill switch. When I tried to start it back up it had the same pull as before(not seized) and showed some life but didn't start. After that pull, it was flat out not starting. I find it hard to believe I ran out of gas? I haven't had a chance to check plugs since it was midnight and we were heading home anyway. Any ideas? This was the first tank of gas with the premix.
 

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I've heard These same symptoms several times now. Somehow the fuel pump seems to be sucking air before the tank is empty. I'd check to make sure the 'smart valve' pickups are positioned correctly. If the rear one is twisted or somehow not on the tank bottow it will suck air prematurely. You can stick your arm down in the tank and feel around to check it.
 

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If the pre-mix was heavy the smartvalves could be clogged. Check to make sure the line is not sucking air. Also was it a full tank? It could very well be moisture from sitting that froze.
 

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Craig,

I ran into the exact same problem this weekend. I pulled the plugs, and shot some gas into the cylinders and it really wanted to fire, but it wouldn't. In the end I pulled the fuel line from the rail, and pulled the sled over a few times ... no gas was being shot out thru the hose.

I dropped it off at the dealer, and he said the exact same thing that Rob mentioned with the smart valve. And if it's not that, they will be putting a new fuel pump in sometime this week.

I have a hard time blaming it on the premix because I ran over 300 miles before experiencing the problem ... one premix tank, and another tank and a half of "regular" gas.

Keep your head up ... at least you know you didn't seize her up.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It started in 3 pulls this morning. I think Rob is correct, because when it did this I was making a 35 degree turn uphill tp the right which probably high ended the fuel pickup. Since it only had under a 1/4 tank it probably sucked air. Why such the long wait until it will start again?
 

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Same problem happened too me about 3 weeks ago. I had only maybe 1/8th of a tank of gas. I was Making hard tuns in the ditch on a hill, then just got on level ground and it started to studer and make that sucking noise. I realized right away what it was so i hit the kill switch before it died. Put a gallon of gas in it. started it right back up and on my way i went. The trick is to shut it off all the way so the pump doesnt loose its prime.
 

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Guys ... just got off the phone with my dealer about 10 minutes ago. When he called up to TRF and spoke with AC, they knew the problem immediately. As Rob mentioned earlier, there's an issue with some of the smart valves on the machines. It looks like mine stuck shut, so that's what caused my "starvation" for gas. He was able to order the parts, and according to AC's ordering system, the parts are not on back-order. BUT, he said he would not be surprised if these went on b/o in a hurry because it could be a "big hitter".

Just thought I'd give you the info I got from my dealer.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the info guys. I'm bringing it up to the dealer today. I'll let you know what the outcome is.
 

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I've had two AC efi sleds and I would have nothing else but you do have to be careful about trying to run your tank too low. It sounds like you have a bad or misplaced smartvalve. If misplaced, once it is put in properly you won't have any further problems with that. BUT, since the smart valves sit on the bottom of the tank and are held up slightly, just forget you have that last gallon in the tank or you will have no problems. I made the mistake of calculating how far I could get in a pinch when I first got the efi and I got to try the old "tie the rope to the back of the poo" trick. You can't drain the tank and as long as you don't try you will be alright.




Enjoying the 2' of snow in No Maine :p
 

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Originally posted by ZREFIrider@Dec 17 2002, 12:04 PM
Not to look completely ignorant, but what are the "smart valves" everyone refers to? I have not heard of this term before.

Pat
Efi sleds have two smart valves in the tank, one towards the front and one in the rear, that act as the pickup for the gas instead of the line coming out of the low point of the tank as on conventional sleds. They are designed as both a filter and as a valve that will shut off to prevent the introduction of air as the tank level drops. If you go up a steep hill with a low gas level, the front valve would shut off if it wasn't covered with gas or vice versa if you when down hill. They do make you much less prone to pick up water or crud that might be in the bottom of the tank.
 

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So just what could it be with these so called "smart (???)" valves that is causing these problems for several people now? Are they breaking, malfunctioning, not designed correctly? I wonder if there is any way possible to tell if each of our sleds may or may not be affected by this potentially VERY incovenient problem??? Any insight to this is GREATLY appreciated to say the least! -- Roy
 

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Same thing has happened to mine...still at the dealers. My dealer said when they called Cat they knew what the problem was and have had several dealers calling with the same issue

Peter
 

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I'll give you my theory so someone else will have something to shoot at. A fairly common problem is to have the valve put in improperly so that it is not on the bottom of the tank. That means when the gas level gets low and you move the sled so that the other valve is exposed you essentially run out of gas with 2 or 3 gallons left in the tank. It is easily remedied and will only happen with improper installation. You have the same problem if one or both is faulty or the filter is plugged. If they are locked closed, you get no gas. Locked open and you suck air when the tank sloshes. I have put 30000 miles on efi sleds and I have never replaced a smart valve for any reason. On my first new efi sled one valve came through out of position and I ran out of gas as described above. This is not new technology for AC so I find it hard to believe that it is going to result in a major problem. I suppose they could have received a bad batch of valves but I sure would'nt lose any sleep over it.
 

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mine had almost 3/4 of a tank ???????
 

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Peter-I read that moisture or even oil particles from the premix can clog the smart valves. I read somewhere that someones sled died and they pulled the valves out and cleaned them and dried them and put them back in and the sled ran fine. Maybe that could be your problem?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well my dealer called cat today and they informed them that it was not a wide spread problem? HMMM? Well that didn't me much. He said I probably sucked in some air and the sled needed to purge the air from the line. I ask what I was suppossed to do when I go up to Canada next month and I the same thing happens? I'm not comfortable with this problem since it hasn't been resolved yet. I filled my tank today and it took 8.7 gallons to fill it to the neck. Hardly empty if you ask me considering it's a 12.5 gallon tank. Wait and see I guess. Here's what GLS had to say today...



GLS, Help with Fuel Pump...
Craig388 on 12/17/2002 11:08:00 AM

GLS, Over at hardcoresledder some of us are having a problem with our F7''s quitting on us while there is about an 1/8-1/4 tank of gas. We all seem to hear a high pitch whining noise(cavatating?)and then the sled will stop like it ran out of gas. Sled will not start up after this and need to be towed home. Once left to sit overnight it started on the 3rd pull. Is this a problem with the fuel pump/smart valves? Your opinion would be much appreciated in this matter. Thanks for your help.


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gls on 12/17/2002 5:34:00 PM

Craig388. It's the smart valves not returning to open. Were working hard on that now. Your dealer should have fix information soon.


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Craig388 on 12/17/2002 6:17:00 PM

Thank you very much, I appreciate your immediate response. I'm sure this will help settle some of the boys over at hardcore.
 

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:eek: I had about 2 inches of fuel left in the tank and I knew I was low but it was the end of the ride. Any how went out into to the powder to ride for a bit on one ski and blahhhhhhhhhh.... out of fuel . Pulled the sled over probably 50 times but it wouldn't fire. After a tow to gas I started in 4 pulls. Another lesson learned.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Sounds to me this is becoming a big problem. I have faith in GLS, so it should be resolved soon.
 
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