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What are you going to do about the oil pump issue?

  • Run premix until you bring your F7 in to your dealer for the adjustment

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  • No premix, but bringing your F7 to your dealer for the adjustment

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  • Not going to the dealer because your ratio is ok now and you don't want your F7 pig rich

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  • Not going to your dealer because you want the damn thing to blow up.

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Big dilema for me. Since the sled is at the dealer, I may just have them do it. I calculated that FCR61 and my F7's are running somewhere around 110:1 to 125:1!!!! That being said, I don't want a fat pig that blows oil! So I may let the dealer adjust it back to full rich and then monitor it, slowly getting to around 60:1 or so.

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
 

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Looks like I'm with most so far, I don't want this sled richened up. Haven't calculated exacted oil ratio, using 1 quart for almost 200 miles, yet everything seems to look great at 1400 miles.

What to do here??? :huh:
 

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im not going to im around 56:1 and if i take it in i know it will come back richer and i don't want that !
 

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Originally posted by Arctic2@Feb 10 2003, 05:23 PM
Looks like I'm with most so far, I don't want this sled richened up. Haven't calculated exacted oil ratio, using 1 quart for almost 200 miles, yet everything seems to look great at 1400 miles.

What to do here??? :huh:
How much gas did you use?? If your getting 10 MPG then the ratio is like 80:1, if your getting 15 MPG then your ratio is only 53:1.
 

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My guess is that since GLS has stated that some of the oil pumps take 1 turn to bottom out the arm and others take up to 6, there are some that are ok. As Rob has stated, check your useage and record the ratio. If it is out of wack adjust the arm. I do not see what it would hurt to just go ahead and adjust the arm, at least have it looked at. I doubt it will come back too rich and if it does, you may need to adjust it the other way. Check the ratio and adjust accordingly. On a side note, since I only have a few miles on my F7, they have all been done with premix in the tank, so I shouldn't have to worry. I will get the pump looked at and monitor it from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by Jay@Feb 10 2003, 05:17 PM
Big dilema for me. Since the sled is at the dealer, I may just have them do it. I calculated that FCR61 and my F7's are running somewhere around 110:1 to 125:1!!!! That being said, I don't want a fat pig that blows oil! So I may let the dealer adjust it back to full rich and then monitor it, slowly getting to around 60:1 or so.

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
Jay, I agree with you. If you guys are really getting those ratios, then gls and Cat is correct in issuing this bulletin. Overall ratios of greater than 100:1 spell disaster very shortly. And it will take more than a couple of turns in the pump arm to move the ratio from 110:1 to :blink: :blink: :blink:
 

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I have not checked my ratio yet but until then I'm going to try like hell to stay out of the 6000-6500 rpm range.
Anybody have an approximate MPH for this rpm?
 

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Originally posted by rob@Feb 10 2003, 05:43 PM
[Jay, I agree with you. If you guys are really getting those ratios, then gls and Cat is correct in issuing this bulletin. Overall ratios of greater than 100:1 spell disaster very shortly. And it will take more than a couple of turns in the pump arm to move the ratio from 110:1 to <70:1
Rob,

I *think* that is what we are getting, the problem is, I cannot be for sure whether I am getting 10 MPG or 15 MPG, which as you know makes a big difference in the calulation. It certainly seems that they are running fairly lean. I think that we are going to turn them both in and monitor them both very carefully this weekend.

Anybody got any pics of this pump, I have never adjusted it myself.
 

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My sled is headed to the dealer Wed. for a piston and cylinder.He said that Cat told him to turn the pump all the way up ! This will surely run way to much oil .I was using a fair amount of oil I thought, until last week when one morning after a 140 mile ride the day before,I I have been was getting the sleds ready and my sled only used the neck of the oil tank.I thought that this was way off from what I was using,and sure enough when I got home and pulled the pipe the PTO side was scuffed.I have been keeping a eye on the pistons,so I know this must have happend .We have been up north riding for the week and I have not been near my computer ,and sure enough when I got home the first thing I do is check this site and the topic is the oil pump issue.I hope this is not the start of problems ,I am headed up north Wed. after my sled is fixed for ten more days and that will be the end for the year for me.
 

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WOW ! this past week the trails we were riding on I was turning 6000 rpm alot,at about 45 mph.Before I was riding the piss out of it with alot of drag racing and wide open burst .Maybe that has something to do with the low oil consumption only on one day,that day we rode fairly easy all day .
 

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Originally posted by rob@Feb 10 2003, 05:43 PM
Overall ratios of greater than 100:1 spell disaster very shortly.
Why?

Doesn't running 100% synthetic oil allow the ratio to be higher without damaging the motor??

Both of these sleds are over 1000 miles each. No adjustments to the oil pump and no motor problems at all. Don't you think that we would have burned down by now?? Trust me I don't baby my sled and I have not worried about this midrange lean condition at or around 6500 RPM.

So what the real deal?? This stuff is pretty new to me (ratios and burndowns, etc.) so I probably don't have a good understanding of this.
 

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Originally posted by Jay@Feb 10 2003, 05:51 PM
I *think* that is what we are getting, the problem is, I cannot be for sure whether I am getting 10 MPG or 15 MPG, which as you know makes a big difference in the calulation.
Jay, I don't understand. Are you saying you don't ever know how much gas you put in for a given trip (# of miles)? You've never checked your mpg? Marc
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Originally posted by Jay+Feb 10 2003, 06:03 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-rob
@Feb 10 2003, 05:43 PM
Overall ratios of greater than 100:1 spell disaster very shortly.
Why?

Doesn't running 100% synthetic oil allow the ratio to be higher without damaging the motor??

Both of these sleds are over 1000 miles each. No adjustments to the oil pump and no motor problems at all. Don't you think that we would have burned down by now?? Trust me I don't baby my sled and I have not worried about this midrange lean condition at or around 6500 RPM.

So what the real deal?? This stuff is pretty new to me (ratios and burndowns, etc.) so I probably don't have a good understanding of this.[/b]
overall ratios take in all the riding that you have done on that measuring period. While a ratio of 80:1 to 100:1 may be ok at part throttle when the engine is at normal operating temps, it needs a lot more oil at full throttle. So if on a certain tank of gas you spend 50% cruising and 50% hammering, the overall ratio should be an average between the 90:1 at just off idle and the 40:1 that is required at WOT. Therefore, an overall ratio of about 65:1 is best. Of course, the ratio will be higher on days you take it easy, and lower on days you hammer it. But at no time would an overall ratio of greater than 100:1 be considered safe or normal. No matter what oil is used.
 

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Originally posted by AC F7@Feb 10 2003, 05:49 PM
I have not checked my ratio yet but until then I'm going to try like hell to stay out of the 6000-6500 rpm range.
Anybody have an approximate MPH for this rpm?
I do not think this is a cure. You want to know what your oil mixture ratio is. You guys that are calculating your ratios make sure it is under normal running conditions. IE: if you are running on the lake or on a rail bed I don't think this will be accurate. I think it should be done under normal trail riding and maybe in the areas you ride the most.

In my opinion it is better to be rich and work your way back.
 

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Originally posted by Team Arctic@Feb 10 2003, 06:05 PM
Jay, I don't understand. Are you saying you don't ever know how much gas you put in for a given trip (# of miles)? You've never checked your mpg? Marc
No, no, no, not at all. I check the mileage usually every fill up. I just know how much oil I used this last trip, but forget how much fuel. :wacko: I mean I don't have a log book or anything!!! :blink: LOL! Maybe I will now. :lol:

The thing is, the difference in the oil ratio from 10 MPG to 15 MPG is rather substantial. I believe that I am averaging about 12 MPG. My last trip, I did 410 miles on about 1 1/2 quarts of oil. So at 12MPG that is about 90:1 ratio. If you figure that at 15 MPG then the ratio is 72:1 which isn't bad. If you use 10 MPG then the ratio is 109:1. The amount of fuel used really changes the ratios, so I don't want to get worried just because I didn't get exact numbers. I just don't know for sure exactly how much fuel I used, so that is why I *think*. :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

OK, I've officially lost it!!!
 

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Rob, not sure if Cat missed the oil pump problem because so much focus was on the cooling issues or what. I am just glad they finally realized something else may be causing problems. Maybe if more of us monitored our oil useage, this would have been solved sooner.
 

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Originally posted by rob@Feb 10 2003, 06:17 PM
overall ratios take in all the riding that you have done on that measuring period. While a ratio of 80:1 to 100:1 may be ok at part throttle when the engine is at normal operating temps, it needs a lot more oil at full throttle. So if on a certain tank of gas you spend 50% cruising and 50% hammering, the overall ratio should be an average between the 90:1 at just off idle and the 40:1 that is required at WOT. Therefore, an overall ratio of about 65:1 is best. Of course, the ratio will be higher on days you take it easy, and lower on days you hammer it. But at no time would an overall ratio of greater than 100:1 be considered safe or normal. No matter what oil is used.
Gotcha! Thanks
;)
 

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Originally posted by Jay+Feb 10 2003, 06:19 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Team Arctic
@Feb 10 2003, 06:05 PM
Jay, I don't understand. Are you saying you don't ever know how much gas you put in for a given trip (# of miles)? You've never checked your mpg? Marc
No, no, no, not at all. I check the mileage usually every fill up. I just know how much oil I used this last trip, but forget how much fuel. :wacko: I mean I don't have a log book or anything!!! :blink: LOL! Maybe I will now. :lol:

The thing is, the difference in the oil ratio from 10 MPG to 15 MPG is rather substantial. I believe that I am averaging about 12 MPG. My last trip, I did 410 miles on about 1 1/2 quarts of oil. So at 12MPG that is about 90:1 ratio. If you figure that at 15 MPG then the ratio is 72:1 which isn't bad. If you use 10 MPG then the ratio is 109:1. The amount of fuel used really changes the ratios, so I don't want to get worried just because I didn't get exact numbers. I just don't know for sure exactly how much fuel I used, so that is why I *think*. :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

OK, I've officially lost it!!![/b]
Maybe it's just me, but I am not of the opinion that gas mileage changes "too" much from ride to ride even if the conditions are a lot different. The best I ever got on my ZR8 is 14.2 (in QC) and the worst I ever got was 12.2 (pounding rough trails and racing around in WNY). If you checked your mileage a couple times to establish a baseline for you on your sled, I think that would be close enough for you to use. Marc
 

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Originally posted by Team Arctic@Feb 10 2003, 06:31 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I am not of the opinion that gas mileage changes "too" much from ride to ride even if the conditions are a lot different. The best I ever got on my ZR8 is 14.2 (in QC) and the worst I ever got was 12.2 (pounding rough trails and racing around in WNY). If you checked your mileage a couple times to establish a baseline for you on your sled, I think that would be close enough for you to use. Marc
This is where we will go our separate ways. :D

I think that it is very possible to get varying mileage relatively easily, I mean so many factors come into play, weather, type of snow, speed, type of trails, how heavy your on the throttle, etc, etc.....

I personally do see a big difference, always have, but I also ride in a wide variety of conditions. There is a big difference in the trails from where I ride in NH and where I ride in VT.

So I honestly don't feel that I have a good "baseline" to use.
 
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