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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just want to know which sled is faster.What distance was run,what conditions and how close was it? (no im not trying to start something just looking for honest feed back)
 

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06 mach,, and my 07 f 10 only 1000 ft neck and neck,but i had 10 miles on it? and now it is not stock,,,, stock motor,,,, now hes way back
 

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My F1000 and Mach ZX are parked about 10' apart even as we speak. That is the closest they have been other than sleeping side by side in the trailer before the infamous 6.9 mile seizure. Tomorrow AM we will put them on the lake and find out whats what. I put 70miles on the f10 today riding to Alberta Beach and back (to Seba Beach). The F truly is a fine trail machine. I continue to be amazed at how it does not feel like a 1000, I think I am on an 800. Wonder what the 800's feel like? 600's? The Cat faithfull are not going to like this but the consensus here is that the Doo is going to have its way with the F10 tomaorrow and I concur. My riding buds today on their Rev800's and Pol 800's told me repeatedly that my Doo is faster. I think I used to pass them faster on the Mach as well. I am oK with that. Problem (for the doo) is that you are stuck with what they built. On the Cat I can speed up and speed up, as much as necessary. On these Skidoos you get what they built and after that your hands are pretty much tied. Maybe some nitrous or a 1200 (how do you make that run??? I can't get the stock shit to work everyday). On the Cat its maybe some bulls eyes, or a Y pipe, or maybe a pipe, some porting and a boondocker and BINGO 200HP. The Doo will probably win tomorrow, but its only a Y pipe away from looking at the Cats snow flap. :beerchug: BTW we will be running as far as necessary on packed snow (by sleds ) and making new tracks in 8" of snow. The Doo has a 1.25 Ripsaw and the F1000 has 15" by 1.00" hacksaw. Bye till tomorrow.
 

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My F1000 and Mach ZX are parked about 10' apart even as we speak. That is the closest they have been other than sleeping side by side in the trailer before the infamous 6.9 mile seizure. Tomorrow AM we will put them on the lake and find out whats what. I put 70miles on the f10 today riding to Alberta Beach and back (to Seba Beach). The F truly is a fine trail machine. I continue to be amazed at how it does not feel like a 1000, I think I am on an 800. Wonder what the 800's feel like? 600's? The Cat faithfull are not going to like this but the consensus here is that the Doo is going to have its way with the F10 tomaorrow and I concur. My riding buds today on their Rev800's and Pol 800's told me repeatedly that my Doo is faster. I think I used to pass them faster on the Mach as well. I am oK with that. Problem (for the doo) is that you are stuck with what they built. On the Cat I can speed up and speed up, as much as necessary. On these Skidoos you get what they built and after that your hands are pretty much tied. Maybe some nitrous or a 1200 (how do you make that run??? I can't get the stock shit to work everyday). On the Cat its maybe some bulls eyes, or a Y pipe, or maybe a pipe, some porting and a boondocker and BINGO 200HP. The Doo will probably win tomorrow, but its only a Y pipe away from looking at the Cats snow flap. :beerchug: BTW we will be running as far as necessary on packed snow (by sleds ) and making new tracks in 8" of snow. The Doo has a 1.25 Ripsaw and the F1000 has 15" by 1.00" hacksaw. Bye till tomorrow.[/b]
just by comparison, i'd imagine the Mach has way more miles on it, which means its completely broke in with some tuning. The F has like 70 miles on it, with no such tuning really and isn't broke in. the track differences would make me assume the mach might have holeshot... but after 500 ft the F should have that. Give that F1000 a little time to break in right, and u should have one mean machine :beerchug:
 

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Well boys and girls here's the update. Did a nice 100 mile ride today enjoying the sunshine and the fine trails around Alberta Beach. Upon returning my son fired up the Z and we did some serious lake racing F vs Z. Some background. The Z is an 06 with 2500 miles on the clock. It also has additional pin weight in the clutch (absolutely required to get decent performance) as well as a set of Bikeman domes and pipe mod. I am unable to verify whether these two mods provided the claimed additional 10hp. The F is a bone stocker with 400 miles on the clock and 300 on the second motor. The only mod is a speedwerx high flow intake (and a damn fine piece it is BTW). Also the doo has a 1.25 ripsaw with 96 studs-F 1.0" hacksaw-no picks. Doo 1/2 tank fuel. Cat 7/8 tank fuel. I rode the Cat to offset the fuel weight difference.
As expected the doo is faster-there its done!
How much difference was there, maybe 3mph. We ran about 8 times and I won once on the Cat. I think I got a better track that run. I cheated a bit looking for an old track under the snow most times to offset the traction advantage the studded Skidoo had. Then usually looked for untracked snow for both sleds to run in. We ran on packed (sled tracks) and untracked snow about 6"deep. Max speed on this day was 110 on the Doo meter.When I got good hook on the old track it seemed the Cat could pull the doo on low to mid with the Z reeling me in later-at 80 to 100 mph. The sleds are a pretty close match-you could find two sleds of the same make and model probably running this close.
Side note. There is a huge difference in the speedos. We ran the Cat side by side with the doo speedo at 80 mph. The Cat was showing 73.
Looks like a 10% difference.
Anyway time for you guys to pepper me with questions. I will do my best to answer any and all as best I can.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Going to back lake(pittsburg NH) sunday hope to see some action myself. Will report back to you cat boys good or bad.
 

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Thanks for the good, honest report Gearhead! Can't think of too many questions for ya. What RPM were you running @ WOT on the Cat? Plans to run/test again soon with the Cat studded up and a little clutching? – Roy
 

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so the doo has the domes for higher comp? and a pipe mod? and the newer pin update,, and what was the clicker set at? 5?

and the f 10 has an intake? only. stock clutching. no pipe mod, no head mod..?

very good report thanks
 

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RT
A little background on todays testing. I put a couple hundred miles on my replacement engine and I could not say it was running well. If you nailed the throttle from a stop or up to 50 mph it would rev up to 7100-7200 and pull nicely. Tho it did take awhile to pass my buds piped 800 Pol or my son's F7. But if you were going fast say 70 or 80 mph and then hit it the sled would miss for a moment and then slowly pull up to 7100 :banghead: Now what? I'm thinking Cat sent me a "safe" ECU after seizing the first motor at 6 miles. I was going to leave the sled stock for awhile but it seemed to be rich so I thought WTF lets lean it out a bit and see. What a difference that high flow intake made. Yes it was faster and a wee bit louder, but man did it ever run nice. No more missing and slobbering when trying to accelerate from 70 to 90 or at any speed. The throttle response was soo much better!!!!!! I can't overstate the improvement. I had so much fun today riding a sled that ran "perfect" all day. :beerchug: rpms seemed to climb maybe 100 so now it revs close to 7300 at full pull. Every F10 absolutely should have a high flow. Speedworx setup is way slick, it replaces Cats block off plate used to meet sound emissions and allows the sled to breathe cold outside air from both sides. Sorry D+D but bullseyes suck compared to this little piece. No drilling required and you can put your sled back to stock if your dealer is a dink. :banana:
Amazing how much different a 160 hp motor feels (a motor designed to deliver 160 hp) compared to a 170 hp motor choked down to 160 with a restrictor plate. JMO your results may differ.

f7
You are correct the doo has higher compression. The clicker was set on 4 today. Mr Mach seemed to be running well today (it doesn't always). We were seeing over 8000 on the longer runs, maybe 8100. This would be too much on a stocker but the pipe mod is supposed to be best at around 8000 so I don't think the Mach was at too much of a disadvantage. It may have been better on clicker 3, maybe not. No mods what so ever to the F except for the intake. No heads, no Y pipe, no clutching no nothing.

RT
No clutching or studding for awhile. We are heading for Yellowstone Jan 2. I will have to grind up a set of levers for high altitude riding and studs are no advantage on their trails so all that will have to wait till we get home. The clutching from Cat is just about spot on for our elevation BTW. All the dyno tests I have seen say 7200-7300 and with my air intake I am right there (2500' ASL).

4992
I think the Y pipe may be enough to pull me even with my Z. Then probably a boondocker and a pipe and wave bye bye to the Z's. Ride and handling wise the Z is a truck compared to the F. The F10 rides and handles as easy (maybe easier) than an 800 Rev. There is NO COMPARISON IN RIDE BETWEEN THE Z AND THE F. THE MACH IS A TANK COMPARED TO THE F1000.
 

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thanks,,, i know from experance the doo is very quick i just thought with the little mods to the doo.. i should me much quicker... but great report
 

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NICE REPORT !!!! WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IF BOTH SLEDS WHERE COMPLEATLY STOCK MAYBE ALLOWING THE AIRINTAKE ON THE F1000 WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT THE OUTCOME? THE REASON IM SAYING ALLOWING THE INTAKE IS BECAUSE OF THE RESTRICTION ON THE CAT WHICH WOULD FREE UP A LITTLE CHOKING MAKING THE HORSPOWER ABOUT THE SAME.
 

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sounds like a very honest report,ive never seen a cat owner admit to a loss.That said,it doesnt sound like you are more than a few mods away from bragging rights next time.[/b]

I won't line mine up against anyone. My F7 pulls away from it................ Sad to say - until I get some tuning done, the 1000 is kind of a turd.
 

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I won't line mine up against anyone. My F7 pulls away from it................ Sad to say - until I get some tuning done, the 1000 is kind of a turd.[/b]
im glad i kept my 03 f7 my f1000 is a turd also.needs clutch work. stock f1000 beating a mach z no way. we raced all day saturday had all the new iron 06machz apex rtx mxz 800 two 03 f7 f1000. f1000 could beet the 800 and the apex but got my ass kicked by mach z and other f7. i put the t1000 t is for turd away and got my f7 out. my f7 saved the day because i was not happy with f1000 performance . the f7s would give the mach z fits all day. every race would be an f7 or the mach z winning.all sleds are stock with bolt ons except the mxz 800 that has kelseys 8turdy kit i mean 830 kit with porting. the mach z could be beaten in a drag race up to 1500 feet but top end for get about it .after 90 the mach z is rocket for a stock sled.my f1000 revs to 7450-7500 so i need clutching sugestions.
 

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....IF BOTH SLEDS WHERE COMPLEATLY STOCK MAYBE ALLOWING THE AIR INTAKE ON THE F1000.... ....MAKING THE HORSPOWER ABOUT THE SAME.[/b]

??? then it would not be Stock vs. Stock.... If the Z has more HP, well it has more HP.. end of story.
If the F10 had more HP would you let the Z guys do a Mod to even it up... :)

I think both of those rides are sweet... on any given day it would be a 50/50 split on who ends up across the line @ 1000' first (and not by much)
 

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??? then it would not be Stock vs. Stock.... If the Z has more HP, well it has more HP.. end of story.
If the F10 had more HP would you let the Z guys do a Mod to even it up... :)

I think both of those rides are sweet... on any given day it would be a 50/50 split on who ends up across the line @ 1000' first (and not by much)[/b]
i had the bullseyes stock clutching 100 miles took d an d pipe off got smoked by 2006 mach z with chuckaro clutching and pipe mod 1000 miles. drag race roll ons topend all the above didnt have a chance. rode the mach z clutching is right on .f1000 is overeving to 7450-7500 so there is hope . as for ride and handling the f 1000 blows the mach z away. till i know the f1000 with the y-pipe doesnt run lean alls i can do is clutching and hope the f1000 gets faster with miles.
 

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??? then it would not be Stock vs. Stock.... If the Z has more HP, well it has more HP.. end of story.
If the F10 had more HP would you let the Z guys do a Mod to even it up... :)

I think both of those rides are sweet... on any given day it would be a 50/50 split on who ends up across the line @ 1000' first (and not by much)[/b]
There is a problem with trying to run both these sleds totally stock. Both had a problem meeting sound emission standards so both had a little band aid applied. The Doo as delivered is way too light in the clutch and has overrevving problems and does not go worth a S**T. The Cat has a blockoff plate cutting off 1/2 of its intake air supply so it does not go worth a S**T. In fact at least in my case the sled does not even run right. If you floor a stock F1000 while cruising at 70-80 mph it will just lay down and miss, eventually pulling some rpms but it takes a while. A couple passes with a hole saw will fix the Cat. But I think the speedworx plate is alot more sanitary. On the Doo all you need is 3 small metric allen head screws and a clutch puller. Both BRP and Cat knows that every self respecting snowmobiler is going to make these changes. I fail to see the point of stock stock stock. Neither sled runs worth a damn STOCK.
Having said all that there is no doubt in my mind that in close to stock form the MachZ is a bit faster-in my house anyway. However, to spped up a Mach is not an easy task. The complexity of the SDI fuel system and the reluctance of the motor to respond to simple mods leaves laymen pretty much stuck with just clutching it and going riding. I tried a couple things (pipe mod and domes), but not much improvement. Now the Cat on the other hand is a modders delight. High flow intake, Y pipe, single pipe, boondocker box and you are looking at a 25 hp increase with simple bolt ons. And a fuel system that is much easier to work with. Soon my Cat will be faster than my Doo. No it won't be stock, but neither is the Doo. I only have 500 miles on the F but already I am impressed at how consistenly it runs. You know what you are going to get every time you hit the throttle-just like the F7. On my doo from day to day you never knew what you are going to get when the throttle is applied. But thats another story.
 
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