[bosssho]

Ok, so IndyTriple and I took my Hooper ZR and the F1000 to Back Lake in NH this past Fri-Sat-Sun...well the Hopper didn't survive Fri, but the F1000 lived and lived very well. :banana:

Brad (Indy) installed the Boondocker, and then we thoroughly burped the F1000 to take the excuses away. We ran it up, tipped it on the PTO side for a min...then checked it all around and headed to the lake. We stopped in to See Goldenchild (Roy) and with the help of Glen Hall on the phone...Nice of Roy to have connections like that :beerchug: ...made some adjustments to further fatten things up and keep things extra safe during break in. I had already thrown some APV oil into the Full tank of 93 Octane and with the Speedwerx ceramic Y-Pipe and D&D Bullseyes we were off. My Clutching is BONE STOCK. We removed my couplers after it would not hook up on ice...I have a 65/35 mix of Woody's Modified 45 Deg Carbides (1.175) and Woodys 1.2 Chisel picks on the 14" x 128" x 1" Hacksaw.

Break in lasted from the spot we parked until I hit the flapper on my ZR and Brad followed on my F1000. lol We did this for about 10 mins around the lake while I broke in the belt on my Hooper sled. Then Brad raced the F8 from Land N Sea in CT and won. I was on the Hooper ice racing at this point. After some technical difficulties resulted in the early retirement of the ZR for this weekend, I took the F1000 out and proceeded to race anything that moved until it was Dark.

F7s...and there are some FAST F7s there...I know the people who own them...tune them...etc...they know their shit...except for the John Reynolds crew F7s that could hand for about 500' none were even close and on top end they were not around at all. I KNOW THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN F7 LOSING A RACE IN ANY DISTANCE ON HCS SO PLEASE JUST SAVE THE BS FOLLOW UPS TO THIS REPORT AND CALL ME CRAZY...EVEN THOUGH I OWN AN F7... :linemup:

Rev 800s...same as F7s but worse.

F1000s...except for Converted, who as he posted in another thread, no F1000 was near me all weekend. He was, and you can correct me if I'm wrong Converted, a few sleds behind me on top, and he has the D&D Y-Pipe, Bullseyes, No premix, and some clutching done. His sled runs great...so I was happy to be out front. After we raced we actually got to talk person to person and he was a great help in showing me where the coolant trouble eminates and I was very appreciative. His buddy on the sharp looking Mach Z X was a nice guy too. Look forward to seeing you guys more often up there. The rest of the F1000s were so damn scared of blowing up that none of them wanted to run...at all...I got a few to go 600-750', but they were all stock...and very weak...which someone else reported...so, just like a Mach Z with it's clickers on 6 and no miles on the engine the F1000 needs some help in the set up dept to wake up...but boy does it wake up.

Mach Zs...the one everyone wants to read about...I raced at least 10-15 Mach Zs b/t Fri and Sun. Some beat me, some lost pretty bad to me. And here is the general thing I saw with the F1000 vs. the Mach Z.

The Mach Z makes less torque, but amost 10 more HP in stock trim at 600 more RPMS...that equals more top speed period...and if an F1000 blows its track out off the line the extra torque we have is useless...which is why I was not f**kin around when it came to studs. Brad came up with his own nutso pattern based on a race pattern we have on my Hooper sled and there are 4 picks per line with a lot of double backers and the aforementioned agressive studs. Except for a friend's Mach Z that has a .750 track and all chisels along with Bikeman domes and a Pipe Mod no Mach Z got me out of the hole on a consistant basis...but he did every time by up to 4-5 sleds...and I would creap on top...yep...creap on him...but never catch him. But if we went from any kind of role I would pull a sled...and to stay ahead I had to keep my face in my crotch b/c if my helmet was above the windshiled he would walk me the slightest bit...he said he knows why he wasn't pulling on top so this may be the last time I can say that about his sled, but it's all broken in and has some good mods to it and that track.

All other Mach Zs...twin pipes, chuckaroo setups, stock, whatever...I was within 2 sleds of on top or even with or beating. There was one Chuckaroo Mach Z I raced from a stop and then a roll and I walked it bad. There was another great guy I just met with a set up twins that when Rob Romeo drove his sled we went from one end of back lake to the other and for the first 1000' I was out good and then he walked me by about 2 sleds and then I caught right back up and we stayed practically even across the lake like this...so on tip top end the Mach Zs had no more than my F1000...with no miles on it, All stock clutching and premix in the first tank of gas and my Boondocker set to rich in the low, mid and high end under both low and high load settings....Even when the Mach Zs that got me out of the hole got me they would never walk me...they would jump out and then I would either stay 2-4 sleds behind or creap on them ever so slightly...so top end is for real with the F1000.

I think if someone comes up with clutching that can handle the torque we have for a better launch, but not hurt back shifting and fullshift out for top speed we will be even better vs. the Mach Zs. Other than that, and I read people on here $hitting on the F1000 clutching we didn't see one weekness...it felt good everywhere.

So there it is...about 35 miles of back and forth WOT balls out racing with little to no breaks in b/t runs and my sled ran like an animal, didn't blow a belt, or fall apart at the seams...I was very happy with it and all the while so comfortable on it b/c the ergonomics kick ass!

As a side note...every Mach Z rider I raced was a GREAT guy...all very nice, very forthcoming and they were very supportive of the F1000 b/c competition is fun and good for all of us, and again Converted was a great guy too and I thank him again for the cooling hose help! :beerchug:

 

[dead1dave]

Sounds like some good honest info . Got some PM's from guys who did have snow ...............guys with y pipe bullseyes setups had NO ISSUES .

Interesting point on the "torque" I found the same thing ......If you can hook up great ....if not it's a waste...HP is king .

Did you race Roy or Chad Oliver ?

Thanks for the info .

 

[Roy T]

Thanks for taking the time to post that great, detailed report Boss – nice job!

Even with 204 studs, she wouldn't hook with the coupler blocks in, and it made it hook that much better once you took the blocks out? With 'em out, I assume you weren't getting so much ski lift that you LOST traction then? As I only weight 145ish lbs., I was for sure going to try racing AND trail riding tests, with and without the coupler blocks. Took 'em out on my '02 XC800 and never put 'em back in, and it worked great for me and my weight anyway.

What RPM were you generally seeing with the bone stock clutching?

Thanks again for the excellent report – really appreciate it! – Roy

 

[NjSnoNut]

Is Back LK. frozen w/ snow cover over .. completly.?

ANY snow nearby to do some trail riding?

What if any Motels ?

I have a few NJ buds w/ 400hp turbo Yams and 300 hp Hooper XCR..that are in Cabin Fever mode..

.. a nead for speed.


But....This weekend even looks warmer.

Thanx.

 

[bosssho]

Sounds like some good honest info . Got some PM's from guys who did have snow ...............guys with y pipe bullseyes setups had NO ISSUES .

Interesting point on the "torque" I found the same thing ......If you can hook up great ....if not it's a waste...HP is king .

Did you race Roy or Chad Oliver ?

Thanks for the info .[/b]

Dead1Dave,

Didn't get to race Roy, I am building a house up there and all three days I didn't make it to the lake b/f 2:30...and Roy was shut down by then and Chad was on his T-Cat racing the prostockers by then...but...Chad's Mach Z, which is Roy's old Mach Z would have killed me...that thing is slammed down and done to the gills...it was beating my Hooper ZR 1035 trail kit last year by 4-5 sleds in 1000' all day long with Roy on it... Roy's new F1000 has pretty much what River Rat has done I believe, plus it's slammed too...so he would have walked me too... :beerchug:

RoyT,

You are very welcome...this is what makes HCS work ya know. As for the RPMs...I was over revving to anywhere b/t 7350 and 7500...but every CAT I have ever ridden over revs by 1-200 RPMS and they all love it...and from a few people I know who have calibrated their tachs they found out they were high by 100+ RPMS so what does that tell ya? On ice...with the couplers in...the sled just borrowed a whole in the ice...with em out and me sitting on the end of the seat, but leaning towards the bars the skis would come up a solid 1-2' and then settle down to about 4-6" off the ice and never touch for the entire race. It worked the balls. On snow, which was about 2-3" of mild packed on top of the ice, with the couplers in it hooked ok, but w/them out it hooked sick...I really hole shotted all the Mach Zs this way...except my buddy Marco who has a .750 track with all chisels...he would eat me alive out of the hole any where we launched. But from my 02 ZR 800 on, through Firecats, and ZR 900s I have never left the couplers in on trail sleds and they run much better that way. Unless you are slamming the sled down for ice and keeping the rear scissor flush w/the blocks for no transfer I would take em out for all conditions. We also adjusted the rear suspension cams to the softest setting for better (READ SMOOTHER) weight transfer on the launch and that helped out big time too.

NJSnoNut...Back lake is frozen...but it was sleeting/raining on Monday when we left so I don't know what happened to the 2-3" of snow on the lake after that. Temps are supposed to be in the 30s all week up there I guess...which is just unf**king real for this time of year...and then rain this weekend maybe.... :banghead:

 

[converted]

Good report Bosssho, I would have to agree with you as I had pretty much the same results all weekend.
Mine seems a little week on the topend, have to see what I can do about that. I did take it out again Sun
night and it seemed quite a bit faster. I was with my buddy on his mach and went from losing to him by
2 lengths on top during the day to beating him by 2 on top. He said he was only turning 7500 though, so
that could be a problem. It was also nice to meet up with you and hopefully soon we can do some trail
riding. Not looking promising for the near future though.

 

[Brian55lvr]

i have a couple of videos ill try to post later

sunday only

 

[bosssho]

Nice...Hopefully his Mach is ok...and yes, that 300 RPMS underrev will kill his top end...Is his Mach all stock or has he piped it, etc, etc?

 

[andy670ho]

Boss, was there only one Mach with traction comparable to you? Was that the one that was beating you consistently? Sounds like you have a good runner there but its hard to compare sharpened studs and chisels vs trail studs. We just did the same thing on thurs. but the f1000 I raced had trail studs and I had picks. I could beat him by 10 lengths in 660'. But to compare the two would mean nothing cuz traction was not equal. Glad to here the good luck you had with all the bad luck that has been happening.

 

[bosssho]

Boss, was there only one Mach with traction comparable to you? Was that the one that was beating you consistently? Sounds like you have a good runner there but its hard to compare sharpened studs and chisels vs trail studs. We just did the same thing on thurs. but the f1000 I raced had trail studs and I had picks. I could beat him by 10 lengths in 660'. But to compare the two would mean nothing cuz traction was not equal. Glad to here the good luck you had with all the bad luck that has been happening.[/b]

Thanks Andy. :beerchug:

I have a mix of chisels and modified 45 Deg Gold diggers...about 65/35 w/the latter being the chisels....but it does not compare to an all chisels track or a shaved track with the same studs. The Mach that was pulling me out of the hole 4-5 sleds was run by a friend who knows his stuff very well. I am sure his clutching is spot on, he has the Bikeman domes and Pipe mod and a .750 track with all chisels. Other than that I would get all the Machs out of the hole pretty good, but 90% of them would catch up at some point, but then a funny thing would happen where I would start creaping again on top...so WTF knows? :banana: but I will say this...a good running F1000 will run with a Mach Z all day and night which is awesome b/c that's how it should be....then it comes down to the tuner, the launch and the rider after that ya know. :beerchug:

 

[converted]

Nice...Hopefully his Mach is ok...and yes, that 300 RPMS underrev will kill his top end...Is his Mach all stock or has he piped it, etc, etc?[/b]

It seemed to be running fine, just was not revving. His sled is all stock other than clutching that
was set up at DaSilvas where he bought it. It was weird as he was running 7800+ all day and
I was at 7200ish all day. Sun night though I was at 7300-7400 and he was down to 7500. I hope
its not hurt. I am not sure on the sweet spot for our sleds being at 7200 as mine felt much better
between 73-7400.

 

[bosssho]

Well, good luck to him. Talk to you soon!

 

[Roy T]

Boss, thanks for the additional details on the coupler blocks. Sweet... lol... something I can do to my sled this week! – Roy

 

[indytriple]

The F1000 rocked! Like Boss said we unloaded from the trailer then it was WFO open across the lake lol, well short bursts the first couple laps. I was very suprised how un ZR900 like the new 1000 motor is. Figured it would feel like a stump puller like the 9, but just a much more progressive super smooth linear pull. Stock clutching seemed to be pretty good, mid range is friggin nasty as is top end. On Saturday we had a CPR clutched 03ZR9 which runs well and its ZERO contest. 600FT on ice the F1000 pulls 4 sleds and its obvious its still in the process of "checking out". 3000ft across the lake and it puts anywhere from 1-2 bus lengths on the old ZR. This ZR also was having no issue's with the 03F7's and other ZR's, even passed another F1000 in the top so it was no pooch.
We fattened the boondocker up across the board and the sled seemed to like it, it did at least 30 3000ft passes. Zero traction with couplers in, zero ski lift as well, yank'em out(literally 2 seconds) and hold on.
Then of course there is all the mach Z comparison, What i learned this weekend is that a Mach Z is still considered stock with, head mods, pipe mods, boondockers etc. lol. The F1000 was very competitive with the majority of the Mach's, even the twin piped machs. And thats with the stock clutching on the F, another month of tuning and getting the odometer into the 3 digits and things should get very interesting.

 

[Jester]

Great report Boss!

Very happy for ya!

My buddy and his Dad ran last weekend with several machs on a long bay and results were like yours. Funny thing is that his Dad's is very good and was winning pretty much all races he ran with some clutching changes but my buddy was uncontested and was even faster than another f there with y-pipe and bulls on it. he is just clutched. He got a good one that is for sure. HE runs ahead of a good running mach bottom to top while his Dad runs ahead of the start losing some in the middle and then pulls a little on top. The fourth f1000 that was there could not get out of its own way and there was something wrong with it. IT would barely pull 7100 rpm and get pulled badly in the middle and from the colour of the plugs was running too lean. Going to the dealer today from what I was told. The good part is that the Mach and f 1000 are close out of the box and after tuners get some time on these it should be a good season for cat. The sleeper of the weekend from what he said is the f8 that was there was running right with them and was winning its share against some of the machs and was on the f1000 flap for a good distance. he does not know what was done to it but looked fairly stock when the hood was open. It would pull a good running pt 800 doo by 3 lengths and keep pulling it to top end. Good to hear on that one.

Jester

 

[indytriple]

Yeah Jester, what i've seen from the F8's so far is impressive. I wouldn't be suprised if the F8's run with the ZR9's. I raced the Land & Sea F8 from atop the rock racing F1000(boss's sled lol) and it was pretty close, I'd say 3 lengths across the lake, which is closer then what the Rock racing stockish ZR9 gets. I'm sure the Land & Sea F8 wasn't stock, and the rider might have actually wieghed less then me, but impressive non the less.

 

[Jester]

Yeah Jester, what i've seen from the F8's so far is impressive. I wouldn't be suprised if the F8's run with the ZR9's. I raced the Land & Sea F8 from atop the rock racing F1000(boss's sled lol) and it was pretty close, I'd say 3 lengths across the lake, which is closer then what the Rock racing stockish ZR9 gets. I'm sure the Land & Sea F8 wasn't stock, and the rider might have actually wieghed less then me, but impressive non the less.[/b]

Something interesting to note on the boondocker. I was talking with a good friend over the weekend that has been trying out the boondocker on his stocker and after getting his clutching setup from stock he decided that the colour of his plugs after 300 miles looked a little lean in the middle and on bottom but looked good on top. He is going to be adding the y-pipe and air box mod so he already had the boondocker and put it in before addig the others to fatten the beast up in the low and mid. He said inhis machine it reacted like he had added 10 horse in the middle. If pulled alot harder in both off the line and in the middle. To get a good comparison it would pull 3 lengths on his 800 do in 660 before and now 5 lengths after the changes. He added a little more to top as well and it gained 2 mph in 2000 feet. He added +5 on the bottom and +4 in the middle and says it is very smooth and pulls much better. The added fuel on the top was just becasue he wanted to be safe and likely is not needed. Perhaps cat has them too lean on some sleds in the bottom and middle to meet regulations. This may not work on all sleds but it sure did on this one. Wierd science on these things I tell ya!! The power is there you just have to find it. Good reports guys. I have some good news on the Carlisle belts that I tried on my crossfire this weekend. I ran the stock clutched setup and ran 100 even in several back to back runs and was 2 lengths consistantly ahead of a buddies F6 and we top out the same. I changed the clutching to a good dd setup with the poo belt and ran 102 but picked up 2 more lengths in 660 and another in 1000 over stock then the damn thing decided to puke the poo blet. They just don't have the strength at high speed to stay together. I then used the same clutching and the xs 801 belt and ran up and down the lake varying speeds for about 30 miles with my you ng lad in front of me to break it in. I figurd it was good to go and then ran some more runs. It had warmed a bit so i figured it would be slower. The sled ran about 50-100 rpm higher with the xs belt but was a length faster to all points and then ran a top speed of 106 aorund lunch time. I am very happy iwth that as my F7 ran a best of 113 but was playing catchup to the cf7 everytime and had to get to 500 feet before passing and pulling away. The nice thing is that the xs belt runs way cooler than the polaris belt at dragging and high speed running. I ran about 30-40 passes like that and it looked great and was getting faster by the end of the day when it got colder when it ran a 108 on the speedo. Got my dad's running real well to when the friggin polaris belt let go on his while he was dragging and put a pin hole in his oil [email protected] that is a piss off. Gotta take all that shit apart to change it out. Still waiting on the xs 812 belts for the firecats otherwise I would have tried it on the F7 as well. THe thing that I noticed about the carlisle belt is that it has mich bigger ridges in the top of the belt that are nearly as big as the cogs below. They also like to ride higher in the secondary at or above the cord line and fairly tiht on the deflection. Hope this is the same on the f7 when they come in.

JEster

 

[indytriple]

Yea jester we went +5 at all throttle settings. Big twins like fuel, the center of the piston is that much further from the cylinder wall so the added fuel really helps keep the piston dome cooler. With it richened up there has certainly been no ill effects, once and awhile it would back fire upon shut down but not to big of a deal.

 

[bosssho]

Jester,

Are you talking about these Carlisle belts for the new Fseries or just the older F7s and Crossfires?

Glad to see your F1000s up there were running the same with the Mach Zs...

I forgot to add that Converted noticed my belt was way loose...it actually left witness marks on the skid plate beneath it which he said was probably from let offs at high speeds...but he suggested I add two shims to the secondary for more deflection and a harder launch. I also need to talk to you off line about the clutching your buddies were doing on their F1000s as I don't want to chance anything there since we are already running good.

Last...on my Boondocker I don't know if the results were the same, but all I can say is we added 5 Points to the low, mid and Hi and also 5 points to the low and hi load settings...so everything was set to FAT FAT FAT to be safe, safe, safe. I will still over revving to 7450 or 7500, but it never felt like it stopped pulling on top and like Brad said Mid range was awesome except for that one spot where the Machs would catch up and pull me...then it would even off and I would creap on them....Very odd how all that sorts itself out in the real world...but no other F1000 had a Boondocker that I saw up there...so maybe that was part of my good running?

 

[bosssho]

Yea jester we went +5 at all throttle settings. Big twins like fuel, the center of the piston is that much further from the cylinder wall so the added fuel really helps keep the piston dome cooler. With it richened up there has certainly been no ill effects, once and awhile it would back fire upon shut down but not to big of a deal.[/b]

Lol, yeah what my Team Rock mechanic said! :celebrating: :banana:

Oh, and the Backfires 0nly happened twice on Friday...never again on Sat or Sunday...I was joking that a lot of Doos did that so after making my F1000 look as much like a Mach Z as possilble I was thinking it was farting like one too! :fluffy: