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Discussion Starter #42
well maybe you cannot read your one FACTS your providing, the studies PROVED there is a loss in YIELDS In the first cut, and NONE of the studies have been done on kost planted CASH crops, like corn and beans
No, only thing it showed was turf grass wasn't as great for a year.

YES snowmobiles again can be driven on FROZEN grounds
but what your simply NOT understanding is, its NOT just the damage from the snowmobiles tracks and skid=es, that is the problem
its the FACT the snow turns to ice and then takes longer for that section of ground to warm up, and it will stay wet longer, further possibly causing problems for farmers
Weird how that didn't have any effect on the field down the street from my house. Have any evidence to support that?

MAYBE your OK with taking a 10% pay cut the first quarter of the yr
How are you calculating 10%? Really curious. You just suggested the compacted snow could make things take longer to warm up, but snowmobile trails are very thin and narrow. The average size of a farm in WI is 220 acres. So you're saying a thin band of snowmobile tracks on a giant field = a 10% loss? Yeah man, I'm going to have to call bullshit on that.

or maybe you'd like to NOT be able to go to work due to someone caused to problems and thus made you UNABLE to work , putting your whole plan behind, that can cost your THOUSANDS in delays!(yes extra muddy fields can take a LOT longer to dry, or cause equipment to burn more fuel, and or other things that can add up to MONEY!
This is some more bullshit. No facts. No science. No data. Just OMG ITS GOING TO COST SO MUCH THEY CANT EVEN WORK THEY"RE UNABLE TO WORK CUZ SOMEONE RODE ON A FIELD. I don't buy it.

its ignorance like yours that give many snowmobiles a bad image, and why many trails get closed every yr!
Ignorance? Bro. I am the one posting photographic evidence and scientific studies. You are posting claims without anything whatsoever to back them up.

your trying tos ell BS to folks that know more than you do
and someone like you with NOTHING vested financially, , your opinion is worthless! like your take on this subject!
The only BS seller I see here is you, compadre.

when the land isn;t your,s
you follows the rules the OWNERS ASKS, if not, your part of the problem!
rather simple, but sadly, I gather you don;t get it!
Have never suggested otherwise.... unless a corner is blown out due to poor trail layout. If that's all dirt in that 90 degree corner, I'm going to do the farmer a favor and cut that corner and keep my sled on snow, and keep the impact to his crops/field to a minimum. It's called common sense. Sucks you don't have any.
 

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Weird how that didn't have any effect on the field down the street from my house. Have any evidence to support that?

This is some more bullshit. No facts. No science. No data. Just OMG ITS GOING TO COST SO MUCH THEY CANT EVEN WORK THEY"RE UNABLE TO WORK CUZ SOMEONE RODE ON A FIELD. I don't buy it.
Please post your facts and data specific to your statement about the "field down the road." Exactly what were the yields with and without sled traffic. You seem to keep saying your EYE knows all just because it looks the same to YOU. That is an unscientific as it comes yet you want data from everyone else.

Common sense? You have none if you cannot grasp the simple fact that it is trespassing on private property and the crop argument is a deflection to prove a completely useless point.

Post your phone number so those of us that are tasked with having conversations with pissed off landowners can send you out on that appointment instead. Bring all of your scientific data, reports, charts and graphs with you. I will come along and count the seconds to see just how long before they stick a giant boot up your ass.
 

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No, only thing it showed was turf grass wasn't as great for a year.



Weird how that didn't have any effect on the field down the street from my house. Have any evidence to support that?



How are you calculating 10%? Really curious. You just suggested the compacted snow could make things take longer to warm up, but snowmobile trails are very thin and narrow. The average size of a farm in WI is 220 acres. So you're saying a thin band of snowmobile tracks on a giant field = a 10% loss? Yeah man, I'm going to have to call bullshit on that.



This is some more bullshit. No facts. No science. No data. Just OMG ITS GOING TO COST SO MUCH THEY CANT EVEN WORK THEY"RE UNABLE TO WORK CUZ SOMEONE RODE ON A FIELD. I don't buy it.



Ignorance? Bro. I am the one posting photographic evidence and scientific studies. You are posting claims without anything whatsoever to back them up.



The only BS seller I see here is you, compadre.



Have never suggested otherwise.... unless a corner is blown out due to poor trail layout. If that's all dirt in that 90 degree corner, I'm going to do the farmer a favor and cut that corner and keep my sled on snow, and keep the impact to his crops/field to a minimum. It's called common sense. Sucks you don't have any.
WOW you just proving your incompetence to read and comprehend

your OWN so called FACTS again, STATE clearly that there was a reduced yield in first CUTS< this means that for the first harvest of things, there is a reduced yield,. NOT a YEARLY YIELD

and since most farmer cash crops are corn and beans, something NOT included in your study here at all
but since the study does PROVE that there is a reduced yield, this can include what the reduced yield would be on things like corn and beans!

your ignorance is just amazing too by the way, you only wish to see things from your view, and to the land owners, what a shame , how simple minded you are!

BUT now, lets get back to your crap!

HOW DID I come up with 10% , I gave a number, NO evidence or facts needed, I just asked you a simple question about how would you like to take a 10% pay cut doe to other causing you problems and thsui making you take a pay cut!

and you clearly were unable to answer the simple question, due to lack of comprehending the question!
instead, you try and point out your nonsense and Bullshit facts you THINK you have about a field down the road, that you ride on and took a few pictures of(not sure how this makes you any expert on things but simple minds like your take and make things up as you wish)
then your trying to use a study on crops that don;t include what farmers plant for CASH on 90% of the farms!

NEXT your simple small mind cannot grasp that the facts are this

and I'll even use YOUR numbers, here, to TRY and help your understand since I know your not so able to on your own when others provide information!

NOW< since you CLAIM most farms in your area are 220 acres!
HOW many farms are there??
I gather you DON"T know this information, nor is your average of 220 acres evebn RIGHT!

BUT OK, lets pretend your 220 acres is right
and lets say there are 500 farms in your area
you take your claim that small area on a farmer field doesn;t add up to anything in damage!
NOW take your say 500 farms, add in a strip say 12 ft wide, by 400 yards long, I'll let you TRY and do the math here
BUT how many miles of fields do you think are under a snowmobile trail! at the above size!

NOW< take all that FIELD< and have a lower yield on it, , which means LESS MONEY to the farmers!
ADD Up the LOST income from ALL them trails that caused SLIGHTLY lower yields, and try and tell the number! the Dollar amount
since your an EXPERT as you claimed it seems based on your simple pictures of a trail near you, you so closely monitored this yr!

I some how gather you cannot come up with anything off the DATA you have!
I gather you cannot even figure out HOW to get that data!

your too ignorant to things to understand what a FARMER is willing to do for the general public, to TRY and be NICE
and then your again too ignorant to understand, that when folks like YOU< come on sites like this and cry about , you knowing MORE Than a farmer and that there is NOT LOST income or value, when snowmobiles ride OFF trail at will, and or BLOW OUT CORNERS AT WILL<
to suit YOUR needs, OVER the what the LAND OWNERS ASKED FOR!
your the ignorant piece of trash, the snowmobile world doesn;t need on the trails, its jerk's like you that cause trails to get closed!
and worse yet, its jerks like you that want others to believe the crap your posting and trying to make others do as you do!

you have yet to PROVE or other wise show you have talked to land owners to work with them to make things better
NOPE< all you have tried to do is prove your bullshit about how snowmobiles don;t ever cause any damage to crops on farmers fields!
which you have failed at, and even proven there is a direct negative correlation between lower yields and snowmobile trails on at least ONE thing your so called DATA shows! they try and say it doesn't matter some how!
your Data is lacking in crops most farmer plant period! making it useless information!

and the overall whole spew of crap you typed, is worthless, as the simple and some how, you cannot grasp this concept
is that a PRIVATE LAND OWNER that opens there land up, and has RULES AND CONDITIONS in place, expects them to be followed 100%, not 90% of the time, or 75%, but 100% and when anyone DOESN"T(meaning YOU as you already said so yourself)
you ARE the problem!
no Data nor, pictures will change this
yet your too ignorant or slow minded apparently to get this!

keep trying to stand behind useless crap, it seems all you have,
or next?? go ahead try and be a key board tuff guy, as you failed at your story here!, maybe you feel better when you try and act tuff onliine!
as your only proving that you know less and less with every post and yet your still just as ignorant as the first one!
 

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I'm not acting tough, just facts > feelings
your preaching about breaking the rules of a land owner due to you THINK your using common sense ! then your also, trying to talk down to folks CLAIMING your using FACTS
when your NOT using any FACTS at all, just your opinions and you provided DATA on things NOT related to what MOST farmers plant'
so how in the hell do you think your just posting FACTS here

the ONLY fact you got right so far is , you DON"T respect the land owners where you ride, aas you clearing have stated several times now, that., when a corner gets blow out you just make them wider by going OFF the marked trail
and again, your justification, is your using YOUR common SENSE??

NO what your doing is NOT following a land owners wishes!

how do you NOT get this

if a land owner wants you to drive ANY where, its there right to PICK where that is,m and ONLY THERE !!

its NOT your call to use YOUR OPINION and go off the marked trail period!

you are NOT a farmer, Heck, you don;t even go and TALK to the land owners where you THINK your helping them going beyond the trail markings to even ASK if its OK!
SO< again WHAT FACTS are you posting here??
I am a farmer and have farm,ed and know what yields mean and how things effect them based on decades, yes decades of experience of actually being involved in , field prep, planting and harvest, and KNOW what compaction and delayed work can cost a farmer, YOU DO NOT!

YOU< are NOT a farmer, you have never been effected by delays, or lower yields, you have ZERO experience with any of this first hand, minus, you took a few pictures, and posting info you read online about crops other than what farmers plant and think that makes you providing FACTS HERE LOL
WHAT A JOKE YOU ARE!
I'll even gather you OWN NO land, and never allowed anyone access to it, and had someone FAIL to comply with your wishes to even know what its like to have that happen!
and you for sure never seemed to have learned any respect of land owners and there wishes, based again the WORDS you type here!, you also seem to show very low respect for other folks that know more than you do about something!

when you know NOTHING,about i it, yet you THINK you do!

' your thinking needs some real work and rather than thinking,,maybe try learning, before voicing the crap you spew!, no one that knows the real deal, here is buying your crap, and I am sure the land owners you disrespect with your NOT following there wished think rather low of you as well!
 

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Cash68 ,,, isn’t it a proven FACT that on a lake or flowage the MORE traffic in the path the DEEPER it freezes??? thats what I’ve always been told by people in the know. So deeper frost does affect crops especially alfalfa and grass. Looks aren’t everything and in the world of farming can be very deceiving.
point 1 — I have seen aflfalfa waist high vs thigh high and thigh high out yield it
point 2– compaction limits Air and water intake in the soil which both are important to releasing nutrients for crop growth and yield proven by almost every university in the midwest
and bottom line is you don’t own it so it doesn’t matter if you think it doesn’t hurt, if the owner thinks or perceives it hurt then the owner/ taxpayer / the guy that leases to ride sleds on is right no one else and that is the bottom line cause if he perceives damage then he may want to not continue leasing
 

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Discussion Starter #49
I've stated several times my club sets up the trails properly, we don't have 90 degree corners in the middle of a field.
 

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I've stated several times my club sets up the trails properly, we don't have 90 degree corners in the middle of a field.
Are you afraid to mention which club you belong to? I'm not, we belong to Musky, Snow, & ATV Sawyer County Snowmobile Alliance.
Yours???
BTW, you still have to obey the land owners rules, if that is 90* corners you have zero say so in it.
 

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There are cases in this life where you can be both right and wrong.

You may be right, it could be that there is no lasting damage from a sled driving over snow.

I think you are wrong to say that because of that, you can ride in a place where you don not have permission. In some areas we have more flexibility than others. In the case of a field, if the owner says stay in this area, that is where you stay. Pretty simple. Does not really matter if it is what you think is best for his land (even if you are right), he gets to decide.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
I'm not posting my club because some of you are such REEEE triggered snowflakes that you will cause me trouble if I do post it. I know it. You can't stand that my opinion is different than yours, even if I back mine up with evidence, and you will go to great lengths to fuck with my life because you're bored and have nothing better to do.

I say common sense > authoritarian following of rules that don't make sense in the bigger picture. Stay on trails= good. When a corner is blown out due to poor trail layout and it's down to the dirt, ... yeah. Common sense. Sucks that some people don't have any.
 

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Like I said before, it's a battle not worth fighting @cash68 ... I get what you're saying, and I don't necessarily disagree with your logic. But the bottom line is, the land owner had the final say, regardless of "facts". When they say, "Follow the water run in that field until this spot, then go towards the house" ... it would be better for the club to ask, "Are you OK if we curve that portion of the trail, or do you need us to do a 90 degree corner?" That makes sense to me, and with some luck maybe we'd get owners to buy into that logic. If not, there's really no excuse for us as snowmobilers to go outside the markers.
 

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I'm not posting my club because some of you are such REEEE triggered snowflakes that you will cause me trouble if I do post it. I know it. You can't stand that my opinion is different than yours, even if I back mine up with evidence, and you will go to great lengths to fuck with my life because you're bored and have nothing better to do.

I say common sense > authoritarian following of rules that don't make sense in the bigger picture. Stay on trails= good. When a corner is blown out due to poor trail layout and it's down to the dirt, ... yeah. Common sense. Sucks that some people don't have any.
your such a fool that thinks they know it all and yet know NOTHING really here but things you THINK you read and or from what pictures you took!
ZERO real experience period here! yet act like you have lots!

you have never provided any REAL proof to your, YOUR CLAIMS, then you cry when folks that know more than you, dis agree with you?

I can fully accept anyone/s opinion, , but having an opinion doesn;t make you RIGHT!
this is where your failing to comprehend and accept things!

NOT willing to admit you disrespect land owner's rights!, when you FEL you know better, using YOUR so called COMMON SENSE!
you stated this several times now!
ignorance is bliss to you I gather! and YOU think you have the right to make calls you DON"T!

the facts are, as stated, the LAND owners have the RIGHT to say what happens on there LAND< , and you DO NOT <!
You have ZERO right to make decisions for the land owner!

PERIOD< NO IF AND"S or BUTT"S here
its not a discussion , its NOT up to your opinion on what the land owner wants, !
its folks like you that get lands closed!
this is a FACT< ask any land owner WHY they close there land, and the main answers you will here is DISRESPECT to there wishes, failure to STAY ON TRAILS ,
TRAILS< THEY< the LAND OWNER< APPROVED!
its not always a money issue, heck MOST times its NOT at all, its about disrespect and the users NOT appreciating the land owner's enough to follow there wishes!


maybe a land owner is OK with damage to the CORNER, maybe its a low yield spot, so they DON"T care it gets run down!
BUT< you never even understand this side of things as again you have NOTHING vested in the lands, or there use by OTHERS besides YOU!
nor do you ever even go talk to land owners to try and help them GET less damage or, explain anything to them, ! NOPE< you just THINK you have the right to make calls for them ! cause apparently you THINK you know more than they do and have MORE common sense than they do or??


your the kind of person that is a BAD example for others, and then cry's about worries of getting in trouble for doing what<??
what your stating you do! for your actions? for your disrespect for land owners, for NOT following the rules!

its pretty simple logic here, in case you don;t know it, I
ll say it!
"DO NOTHING WRONG" and you DON"T have to worry about getting in trouble!

you wish to cry that others are picking on you or willing to MAKE trouble for you, HAHA!

on what basis is this, your MIND playing the game of FACTS again that you DON"T have!

I live in PA< FAR from you, I have NO clue who you are(in real ID means ) nor could I care less who you are!

But I for one would think your CLUB would enjoy knowing YOUR the GUY that blows out corners OFF marked paths/trails marked and rules to stay on them ! !(and I am not saying I would tell them who you were if I KNEW who you were)
you do this at YOUR WILL< THINKING you know more than the land owner!!~

SOME How, YES 100% I think they might have an issue with this! and with you!, but its not anyone's fault here but YOURS and your actions!

SO< it wouldn;t be ME causing you the issue, if some how magically I gave them your info!
as odds are if they knew who you were and what YOU were doing!
it would be your actions that would be the problem, NOT me or anyone else!

SO<??
what's the matter, not brave enough to stand up to what your doing when called on it! if its so OK to do, why hide and worry??

seems even you , REALLY know what your doing is wrong! yet you want to try and sell the crap you again spew that its FINE and OK to do so!, yet scared of what might happen if folks know its you doing it?? makes you seem like a coward to me!
I all it like I see it, !
some day maybe if you ever grow up and have something and others dis respect your wishes maybe you;ll get it! till then, I guess you can continue being a ignorant rider disrespecting land owners hiding from anyone that MIGHT call you on it in person or at the club!
 

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The horse is dead. I mean, it has been beaten to a dried pile of dust. The wind is picking up, and within a few days, that pile of dust will be long gone.

Come back around Thanksgiving and let us know how it goes talking with your land owners about your proposal. Honestly, I'm curious what you find out.
 

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The horse is dead and private property is still private property that someone else owns and has their rights trampled by others due our countries lousy private property rights. (think lawyers here)

Steve
 

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I imagine you frothing at the mouth when you type all that.
again showing your child like mind set!
ever hear the saying a few bad apples ruin things for everyone
well, now we know who at least one BAD APPLE is , by your own admittance of what YOU do!
 

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Discussion Starter #59
What I do? Stay on the trail at all times unless a corner is blown out down to the dirt?

Yup, I'm the problem. I'm actually personally responsible for BRP suing cat this year too. Also, I invented covid. Who's laughing now?
 
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