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I am in a club and I do help. I'm just sharing my small experience and opinion. That's what discussion forums are for. Feel free to share your experiments and opinions. :)

This also goes back to my complaints about the way some clubs lay out their trails. If they put a decent radius in the corners, instead of a sharp 90 fucking degree corner in the middle of a field, it would NOT get blown out. But because whoever put in the trail decided that was how it is going to be, people have corner super hard/go so slow, and then once they're past the apex, they floor it to accelerate out of the corner, and blow all the snow out, which exasperates the issue.

If there was some sort of guidelines/standards on how to lay out trails, aka, put in a radiused corner, this would prevent corner blowout/dirt, and encourage people to stay on the trails.
if your in a club and you are a real part of things,(and don;'t just pay for a membership due) maybe you can try and talk to the folks that OWN the land and try and tell them HOW the trails should run thru there land??
see how that goers, MAYBE it would help, not a bash here, just saying
coming on a forum and saying problems, isn't the same as speaking up at club meetings and making the effort to GO talk to a land owner and try and work with them
like I said, it takes real work to get things done, there can always be a better way, but if your not making the attempts to resolve things and just taking it into your own hands to ride and BLOW Out corners at will, your NOT really helping, but hurting the sport!
facts are facts, YOU DON"T own the land, so you have ZERO right to decide where you can go on it, trails get marked for a reason
and failing to stay on the trails is what causes trails to get lost
its not rocket science!
yet so many fail to get it!!!
lots of time now between NOW and next season, start talking at meetings and push the issue to get to know land owners and offer advice/suggestions on how to save the land owner form more damage
talks like this, are HELP, and might save a farmer some work, but it has to be done with respect, and that's a huge key many miss! IMO
or they wait till winter/last minute like, i to start talks, and farmers like most folks DON"T Like being put on the spot
relationships are BUILT they take time, the more effort and time you put into something, most times the more you get out of it!
short cuts seldom make anyone happy in joint use lands!
 

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You know, I’m not at all opposed to your (@cash68) thoughts on where trails can/should go. But it’s just not our decision. I have two land owners literally back to back with no road crossing between. One has us put up fencing guiding them around corners, Stay On Trail signs every 100 yards, and still spreads manure along the side of the trail in the winter to keep people on the trail. The next guy over says “shoot straight across” and we put nothing but reassurance markers all the way.

We have to stay where we are told on the trail, or that trail might not be there next year.

Go talk to your land owners, ask them.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
My clubs trails are decent. I've given feedback on stuff in meetings and when we put in the trails we don't have hard 90s on high speed sections.

My feedback in this thread is getting at... I wish state wide, there would be some sort of standard to trail layout and marking. North of my area, the trail markings are spotty and confusing, the trails have hard 90s, etc.

Think of it this way, like rally racing. I used to be into that quite a bit. When setting up stage or course, it would take place on roads, but there were STANDARDS on how things were marked, and guidelines on where spectator areas could be located, and where they could NOT be located. These guidelines and standards result in a uniform look to all stages/rallies no matter the location. It also keeps people safe.

IN MY EXPERIENCE, my club does a pretty good job. Up north near Lakewood, they do an AMAZING job. But the center of the state? It's completely hit and miss.

And I think some people blow 'damage' way out of proportion. Again, the photos I posted were a heavily tracked section that was not official trail. Technically may even have been against the law, depending on feet from center of the road. But not one single rider in all the seasons I have been here has ever been a dickbag and torn up that guys fields. People just use it respectfully, w common sense, to avoid the culverts/drain pipes for a short section.
 

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Cash, There are guidelines on the DNR website and these guidelines are what our club uses when marking the trails. As we do our sections individually I cant guarantee that everyone in our club follows them but for the most part they do and from what I have seen other clubs also follow these guidelines. do a search on Google for "wisconsin DNR snowmobile trail marking standards" and it should be the first link.
Xltboy
 

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and also again keep in mind, a club can only make trails the LAND owner allows, many times they have NO say in things
and ANY trail is better than NO trail, to keep thinbgs connecting to other trals NO

this again is, where folks like you*cash68) if you feel this strongly about things, get off your butt(meany nicely no bash here)
and go in the off season and talk to land owners in places where you feel trails are confusing and all that!
see if you can educate the land owners and help them under stand and try and get them to allow better trails?
things like this never happen just complaining on a forum , things need to be taught and talked about to folks that can make the changes! like the LAND owners and AT club meetings, BY folks with time and passion to make things better
as nothing gets done just by saying words on a screen the land owners are NOT reading, or in any official capacity .
even when there are set standards and rules , like DCN or states have
they can some times NOT be meet on land owners request as long as safety isn;'t s concern, as most times bottom line on any trails NOT on state land, it IS the land owners say that has last words, NOT the club or state!
countless snowmobile trails are also NOT set to any race course standards
due to well, there NOT races, there are not race like conditions, or sponsorship, to HAVE to conform to!


and again your picture of that field, DOES show a difference in growth of things, you aybe don;t see it, or want to
but it is there
and as a farmer, the thing that makes or breaks them is what is called YIELDS
so when a section of field had a 10% less growth rate or YIELD or even less ,
it effects there bottom line, (INCOME< ) it still COSTS Them the same $$$ to prep a field and treat its crops, , so when they grow less due to being driven on, even a small amount, it adds up to losses for them!
this is what MOST rider s DON"T get!

all this seems like a small thing to you, but its NOT to them, when things effect your MONEY I bet you pay more attention to things, and you wouldn;t ant random strangers taking some of your money off you, without your permission,
in the real world that is called STEALING
and folks never like being robbed,!
and its worse when you let someone do something and they turn around and steal from you

think about it, how would you feel if you left a friend stay over your house and come to find when they left they stole something off you!
odds are you would feel insulated, maybe mad, and maybe NOT want them back at your house again??
ruin a friendship even maybe??
well when again a LAND owner opens there LAND up for strangers to use, out of kindness, and then they get damages, or folks riding OFF Trails into places they DON"T want riders PERIOD< be it damages or NOT
is still just insulting and reasons for them to NOT allow it in the future!

its real easy to NOT get this stuff till you see it in examples that hit home more, or your on the other side of the coin, and sadly very few folks will OWN land and FREELY open it up to the public to use!
don;t believe this, look about at HOW much land in the USA is private and posted!!
VERY VERY VERY Little of private lands are OPEN to the public!

folks should really Be THANKING farmers and land owners that ALLOW TRAILS on there lands and NOT be disrespecting them by NOT following there requests to STAY ON TRAILS!
and anyone that dislikes how a trail lays out, should get off there ass and go and try in a REAL way to make changes, educate land owners, spend TIME and TRY

rather than trying to justify NOT following a trail, or worse, RIDING where its NOT a trail at/on someone else s dime and land!

ain't NO land free to ride on folks!
its either legal state trails and land,s or its private lands, you either have LEGAL permission to RIDE/be on , or your trespassing and breaking the law doing so!
you either KNOW where your at, or SHOULD and know where your at is OPEN to be ridden on or NOT too!
 
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