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Was seriously thinking about clutching my Dragon. I was looking at the EPI kits that Polaris offers. Just though that it would work out better if anything went wrong with it, Polaris would be more sympathetic :dunno: since they offer it in the catalog. Has anyone tried these or have an opinion one way or the other. Might as well do something to the thing since I can't ride it! Thanks in advance- signed "Still hoping for snow" :banana:
 

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Do not buy the EPI clutch kit. I bought one for my 2006 Fusion because of all the wonderful things that POLARIS said this kit would do. Ended up wasting last year messing with various combinations of weights, springs etc. Bottom line it does not work. I could go on and on about my frustrations with this kit, but you get the idea. This Fall I took the kit out and went back to stock clutching.
 

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Ran a epi kit (56/42 F helix 140-240 spring) in my 05 900 Fusion last year. Sled pulled pretty good.
Put a 420719 team helix in this season 70-46-42 .46.25.25. What a huge difference. The sled pulls way harder. More
top end also.
 

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In Glen's defense sometimes what EPI gets to test with prototype sleds is not what Polaris ends up building, So if he is testing a 600 or 900 prototpe that my have 5 or 6 more HP then the production sled then there is a good possibility that the clutching that was tested might be a little heavy for the lower HP production sleds. I've personally witnessed prototypes that run better than production builds.
In any event last year I posted a set up on here that some guys had good luck with and the feed back I got from the guys with Dragon's was better than the the guys with the regular 600 Fuses most likely do to timing and gear in the Dragon.

0-3000 Ft. Elevation
62 gram weights check to make sure they weigh exactly
grey Team primary 165-344
52-42 full team helix if your weight is under 220 if over use 52-40
stock red/black driven spring
jet down two main jet size unless running below 0 Deg F
stock gearing
120 studs

guys have told me this works very well, 4 lengths in 1000' improvement over stock 600 Fuse 5-6 lengths better than stock in a 600 Dragon
back shift is equal to stock better for groomed vast trails vs. ditch banging moguls. Good Luck
 

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In Glen's defense sometimes what EPI gets to test with prototype sleds is not what Polaris ends up building, So if he is testing a 600 or 900 prototpe that my have 5 or 6 more HP then the production sled then there is a good possibility that the clutching that was tested might be a little heavy for the lower HP production sleds. I've personally witnessed prototypes that run better than production builds.
In any event last year I posted a set up on here that some guys had good luck with and the feed back I got from the guys with Dragon's was better than the the guys with the regular 600 Fuses most likely do to timing and gear in the Dragon.

0-3000 Ft. Elevation
62 gram weights check to make sure they weigh exactly
grey Team primary 165-344
52-42 full team helix if your weight is under 220 if over use 52-40
stock red/black driven spring
jet down two main jet size unless running below 0 Deg F
stock gearing
120 studs

guys have told me this works very well, 4 lengths in 1000' improvement over stock 600 Fuse 5-6 lengths better than stock in a 600 Dragon
back shift is equal to stock better for groomed vast trails vs. ditch banging moguls. Good Luck[/b]
Well I can agree with you to some degree, but when I call Glenn and tell him the problems I am having and he tries to give me a song and dance, I don't have any time for him. When I lay down approx 280.00 of hard earned money, I expect you to find out what the problem is and take care of the problem. I am not going to get into what was said, but the EPI kit flat out sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have been around the block a few times myself!!!
 

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In Glen's defense sometimes what EPI gets to test with prototype sleds is not what Polaris ends up building, So if he is testing a 600 or 900 prototpe that my have 5 or 6 more HP then the production sled then there is a good possibility that the clutching that was tested might be a little heavy for the lower HP production sleds. I've personally witnessed prototypes that run better than production builds.
In any event last year I posted a set up on here that some guys had good luck with and the feed back I got from the guys with Dragon's was better than the the guys with the regular 600 Fuses most likely do to timing and gear in the Dragon.

0-3000 Ft. Elevation
62 gram weights check to make sure they weigh exactly
grey Team primary 165-344
52-42 full team helix if your weight is under 220 if over use 52-40
stock red/black driven spring
jet down two main jet size unless running below 0 Deg F
stock gearing
120 studs

guys have told me this works very well, 4 lengths in 1000' improvement over stock 600 Fuse 5-6 lengths better than stock in a 600 Dragon
back shift is equal to stock better for groomed vast trails vs. ditch banging moguls. Good Luck[/b]
Sorry, I forgot to thank you for your suggested setup. It is guys on here that make the sledding world go around. If I get a chance I will try yours!
 

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Thats what Im running in my dragon and it was 4 sleds faster. I have a bikeman pipe mod and gonna start out with the same set up just to see where Im at.Hopefully Ill have to add a little weight. Thanks again.
 

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Nice of GSI11j to come to EPI's defense and it is most likely true that proto sleds are going to be different from productions sleds. This is probably also true for many new sleds, regardless of manufacturer. The other performance people seem to be able to deal with it. What was most upsetting to me about both EPI and Polaris is that they didn't step up to the line, admit the kit did not work and make it right either with a new kit or a refund. I'm like kmiller2, spent a lot of time on the phone with no satisfaction. Wonder why EPI cancelled out of Hay Days?
 

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Glen Erlandson is arguably the absolute best clutching guy for "Polaris" clutches. (Keyword; Polaris)
I think this team deal has thrown him a curve ball. and the deal with polaris keeps him from even selling clutch kits for the Fusions and IQ's now. You need to buy it from a dealer according to the contract he is under, he is prohibited from selling these kits directly.

None of us really know what is happening between the two, so we are all just kinda speculating and guessing. Another guy over in Minnesota got these 900 twins clutchng needs figured out. and larrypolaris is running the perfect 900 twin set-up becuase of it. But it is very doubtful that this will even be in the outer extremes of working on a 600 twin.

I was under the assumption that they nailed the 600's clutching from the factory except for the weights need to by gram matched at 62'ish, So get the jetting corrected, if it is an HO, and get a set of matched-weight weights in there.
 

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I won't pretend to be a Team clutching guru, because I certainly am not. Hell, I just barely know the basic theories of clutching. But there is a lot of discussion here, and elsewhere on how to set up the 600 HO's. Maybe someone can address some of my questions....Keep in mind my thoughts and questions found below are not meant to defend or criticize anyone, but are just some issues that have crossed my mind recently.

It seems most tuners on this site agree that the 600 HO likes to run in the 8200 RPM range. Why then, does EPI state that their kit is designed to run in the 7800-8100 RPM range on the install sheet? Could this be Polaris' influence to reduce over-revving, and thus reduce warranty claims? Could it be EPI simply misjudged the powerband on the motor? Or is it a compromise between straightline (drag) performance and tight trail backshift characteristics?

All I keep hearing is how bad these kits are because they don't let the motor run at 8200 RPM. Perhaps that was not EPI's intent when making the kit..... for reasons we may never know.

I would hope that the folks at EPI are smart enough to tune their clutch kit to run in the sweet spot of the motor, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they didn't do their homework, maybe they just didn't care, now that they have a fat contract with Polaris.

In any case, It's been said many times before that no one clutch combination will work for everyone in every condition. So many hours of testing is necessary to obtain maximum performance, and I thank and admire those here on this site that have posted their set-ups and results because they have the patients, knowledge and skills to test different clutch combinations.

But what I fear is the guy who tries a kit and decides that it is junk based on the fact that it would not pull peak RPM, or lose a few lengths on a long lake run. Did they try the kit on a tight woods trail to see what the "tree-to-tree" performance is like? Did they try the kit on a 40 degree day in wet heavy slushy snow, and then try the same combination on a minus 10 degree day on trails that were hard as a rock? If they did, they did not mention that in their critique. Maybe the EPI kit performs well under one of those scenarios, maybe not. I don't possess the knowledge or experience to make that statement. And perhaps there are others out there that may not either.

Unfortunately, when there is snow, and I have free time, I would much rather be riding instead of wrenching. Not to mention the additional cost of all the associated specialty tools needed to service the clutches, and don't forget the initial cost of the components themselves. But like I said, I admire those who like to tinker.

On a related note, I have seen many questions asked about the EPI 600 HO kit as to what the angles on the helix are, and no one really has confirmed that information, so I'll ask again, has anyone figured out the angles on the EPI helix for the 600 HO kit?
 

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I bought an EPI clutch kit for my 05 900. Junk.........broke the primary spring after 1 season.[/b]
my kit worked fine in my stocker. yes yellow springs seem to be prone to breaking but you should replace them once a year anyway. and im still running the yellow pi spring.. EDIT just as i say that i picked my sled up from update and the mech found my primary spring was busted again!!! only like 500 miles on that one. i broke one the first year too. i call glen maybe he will send me a new one. also ordered the 719 helix and some washers yesterday.
 

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We raced a 2000 xc600, 2000 xc800, and a 2002 xc700 on the grass from 2001 through 2004. Did real well, have trophies to back it up. Glenn Erlandson, Chad, and Ty at the time were a great help to us. Glenn knows his stuff and are great people to work with.

It seems back in the old button clutch days full progressive angles was the way to go for good excelleration and relative good back shift. Put enough spring in there to not up shift too fast and things were good to go.

Now the Team Roller discussion. These are just some of my thoughts.

I am not so sure you can applie the same full progressive principles to the Team clutches as the old button clutches. I thought that
you might be able to apply some linear logic the the Team clutch compared to the old button clutch 50/36. Team clutch
is a larger diameter and a 42 bottom angle on the Team seems to work pretty good, so add 6 degrees to the 50/36 on both sides and you have a 56/42 F helix. Should work pretty good. It does. But. Throw a 70 angle helix in there with a .046 step and a 42 or 44 bottom angle and what a difference. The sled pulls hard and has good back shift. There must be a reason why Team helix's
have those .46, .36 step angles.

Now relate this to EPI. All EPI helix's are full progressive helix's. May be Glenn is applying some linear logic here and Team
Helix's don't really work well as a full progressive Helix.

Again these are just some of my thoughts. Dealing with these Team helix's is like learning clutching all over again.

Should we talk Team springs??
 

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In Glen's defense sometimes what EPI gets to test with prototype sleds is not what Polaris ends up building, So if he is testing a 600 or 900 prototpe that my have 5 or 6 more HP then the production sled then there is a good possibility that the clutching that was tested might be a little heavy for the lower HP production sleds. I've personally witnessed prototypes that run better than production builds.
In any event last year I posted a set up on here that some guys had good luck with and the feed back I got from the guys with Dragon's was better than the the guys with the regular 600 Fuses most likely do to timing and gear in the Dragon.

0-3000 Ft. Elevation
62 gram weights check to make sure they weigh exactly
grey Team primary 165-344
52-42 full team helix if your weight is under 220 if over use 52-40
stock red/black driven spring
jet down two main jet size unless running below 0 Deg F
stock gearing
120 studs

guys have told me this works very well, 4 lengths in 1000' improvement over stock 600 Fuse 5-6 lengths better than stock in a 600 Dragon
back shift is equal to stock better for groomed vast trails vs. ditch banging moguls. Good Luck[/b]
Gave that set up to a friend last year, the sled absolutely ripped. He had no trouble beating F5, F6 Cats and Rev 600's. He was extremely happy with this set up. Do you have any set up for the 07 Dragon yet?
 

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Yeah 9500 I have PM'd you a few times on your set up and what not. I know you have some good ideas, and have spent a few bucks getting your sled tip top. I have never came here to bash the Fusion. I love mine after working out the bugs, I just hope Glen sends you a new spring. I have to tell you though ..I have been riding since I was 5 and I have rode all kinds of sleds. The EPI kit I bought was a complete joke. I will never buy an EPI kit again. The SLP clutch kit and pipe I bought absolutley blows the stocker out of the water.




O and people having belt issues.......put in some vents on the clutch side. SLP tourqe arms too.
 
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