Heard mention on here about Trails being Closed due to Off Course Riding to avoid Dirt Road Sections. Seems to be a growing issue here in Rural NY as well. We have Country Roads that have minimal traffic (basically local residents), 30 foot wide paths(15 yrs ago they're 20 ft). I understand from an Operator stand point that you have Large Modern Plows with enough Power that it just has to be a Hoot to be Plowing and throwing Snow kinda like running a John Deere with a Hemi in it. Some Club Members have spoken to Drivers lobbying from an individual standpoint to leave us 5-6 feet on the side for Snowmobiles, clubs could groom these sections but, as one plow operator stated, I've got 25 folks expecting Clear Passage and 2 Snowmobilers wanting a Snowmobile Trail along the side of the Road. I get their point, and with Trail Closures the Road Riding Issue itself appears as if it will continue to grow, with some attention at the Local/County/State Level, and given Priority, this issue appears as if it could be managed with little cost(seems as if it would work out more often than not). Far too often Progress is Prohibited by Cost Constraints, in this Case it appears an uncomfortable situation might be managed inexpensively with a bit of Cooperation, we just need 5-6 feet, wouldn't that be Nice.
horsefly
I agree it would be nice if they left 5-6 ft on the sides for us, but I bet the reason they won';t is due to fear of a law suit from some idiot that crashes and blames the state for road not being cleared properly or what ever, some fancy lawyer claims is fault~
to many people THINK there NOT responsible for there own actions and its ALWAYS SOMEONE else's fault when they get hurt, crash, of what ever these days
gone seems to be the days when people held there own self accountable for silly things, like LACK of paying attention and such,which causes many accident, or just using common sense, which would avoid many things too!
and its NOT just the idiots that sue, and then lawyers, its also the morons on the jury's that award the idiots so much!
to many people THINK there NOT responsible for there own actions and its ALWAYS SOMEONE else's fault when they get hurt, crash, of what ever these days
gone seems to be the days when people held there own self accountable for silly things, like LACK of paying attention and such,which causes many accident, or just using common sense, which would avoid many things too!
and its NOT just the idiots that sue, and then lawyers, its also the morons on the jury's that award the idiots so much!
This is common practice here in Quebec. Plow operators are actually instructed to wing off one side of the road nice and flat for sleds to run. It adds to the length of the season and is good for business. You guys just have to keep lobbying the politicians. We even have municipalities that allow sleds only on sidewalks that are not plowed. Some towns you can access the pickup window at Tim Hortons or McDonalds on your sled or ATV.
It may not be an option elsewhere, but a class 4 road in VT has a 25' easement. Most class 4 roads are between 12 and 16' wide. That leaves about 4' 5" on either side of the road which is technically still public.
The town crews definitely do not have to do anything to work with you on the matter, but the option exists of contacting the town representatives (in our case in Bridgewater, it would be a selectboard) and speaking with them about the possibility of the club grooming the side of the road where they don't plow.
I'm sure it goes without saying, but you will likely also want to speak with the people who live on that road first, just as a courtesy / good will to make sure they would be OK with it. The fewer people you piss off, the fewer problems you will have at a later date.
In theory - the governing body is supposed to act on the will of the people. So if it's something everyone on the road wants or doesn't mind, it should be possible.
The town crews definitely do not have to do anything to work with you on the matter, but the option exists of contacting the town representatives (in our case in Bridgewater, it would be a selectboard) and speaking with them about the possibility of the club grooming the side of the road where they don't plow.
I'm sure it goes without saying, but you will likely also want to speak with the people who live on that road first, just as a courtesy / good will to make sure they would be OK with it. The fewer people you piss off, the fewer problems you will have at a later date.
In theory - the governing body is supposed to act on the will of the people. So if it's something everyone on the road wants or doesn't mind, it should be possible.
The problem with the road right of ways on the class 4 roads is usually only a portion of the right of way has been cleared of trees and leveled as a road. Lots of class 4 roads barely wide enough for one vehicle. Cutting the roadside trees in the rest of the right of way has a good chance of not going over too well with the people along these roads.
We've got about 1000' of VAST trail approaching my property from the north that run along a groomed roadside. These a 200' or so section that has a wide runout, so the trail runs immediately behind the roadside snowbank. The Town came along on Friday with the grader and winged the bank back...down as lower as they could go. Two passes and there is a 6' tall snowbank running down the center of the former trail, with the balance of the length pushed off over the bank. Yep, it was good while it lasted, but we're not going to get two more weeks out of this solution either. Runnin' in the mud now.
Here's a link to town roads by county: vtransmap01.aot.state.vt.us - /Maps/TownMapSeries/
My buddy sent me one for our town up North. Turns out, the "Class IV" our road turns into is actually a "Legal Trail".
My buddy sent me one for our town up North. Turns out, the "Class IV" our road turns into is actually a "Legal Trail".
I served on our towns Planning Commission when the Ancient Roads Act was passed. It caused all sorts of controversy.
One observation was lots of people had no idea that town roads are on private property. The Towns do not own the land the roads use. They only own an Easement which grants them the right to construct a road for public passage across otherwise private property. The Towns do not have to maintain a road and without the Town's permission nobody else can either. Except... the property owner. The property owner retains all rights to the land that do not interfere with the Towns use of the Easement.
One observation was lots of people had no idea that town roads are on private property. The Towns do not own the land the roads use. They only own an Easement which grants them the right to construct a road for public passage across otherwise private property. The Towns do not have to maintain a road and without the Town's permission nobody else can either. Except... the property owner. The property owner retains all rights to the land that do not interfere with the Towns use of the Easement.
You have the right to cut open unauthorized gates on town roads but check with the town first. Often better to complain to the town and have them handle the mess. I know of a road in the Manchester area (might be next town over I'd have to check a map) some rich landowner keeps sticking cones in the middle of it.
Most likely it's still a road...
In practice the Ancient Roads Statute should have had little impact on snowmobile trails, as the specifics needed to make a given road an "Unidentified Corridor" under the Statute - and hence make the road disappear on 7/1/15 - weren't often met. To be a UC, the road needed to be 1) laid out and accepted at one time (and documented as such), and 2) it's location can not be identified on the ground, i.e "can't tell where it was" (hence unidentified...get it?). So as a rule, if we're using an old road as a trail, pretty good chance that its location can be identified, therefore it didn't automatically go a away 7/1/15...despite what some Selectboards might think.
It appears that some towns have misinterpreted the "location" element of the UC and determined that a given road was a UC because they couldn't drive down it today (my own firsthand experience in Middlesex). Not to say that the Selectboard can't change the status when ever it suits 'em, but those reclassification and discontinuance provisions have been in place since the beginning. Possibly the Ancient Roads thing got 'em thinking about this more than they might otherwise.
One other thing to keep in mind: Even as a Class IV, the Town is still responsible for culverts and bridges. They don't have to maintain the road surface, but when the bridge washes out, they gotta fix it. Even more motivation to reduce Class IV's to trails or discontinue altogether. And discontinuance is definitely not good for snowmobile access.
In practice the Ancient Roads Statute should have had little impact on snowmobile trails, as the specifics needed to make a given road an "Unidentified Corridor" under the Statute - and hence make the road disappear on 7/1/15 - weren't often met. To be a UC, the road needed to be 1) laid out and accepted at one time (and documented as such), and 2) it's location can not be identified on the ground, i.e "can't tell where it was" (hence unidentified...get it?). So as a rule, if we're using an old road as a trail, pretty good chance that its location can be identified, therefore it didn't automatically go a away 7/1/15...despite what some Selectboards might think.
It appears that some towns have misinterpreted the "location" element of the UC and determined that a given road was a UC because they couldn't drive down it today (my own firsthand experience in Middlesex). Not to say that the Selectboard can't change the status when ever it suits 'em, but those reclassification and discontinuance provisions have been in place since the beginning. Possibly the Ancient Roads thing got 'em thinking about this more than they might otherwise.
One other thing to keep in mind: Even as a Class IV, the Town is still responsible for culverts and bridges. They don't have to maintain the road surface, but when the bridge washes out, they gotta fix it. Even more motivation to reduce Class IV's to trails or discontinue altogether. And discontinuance is definitely not good for snowmobile access.
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