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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just saw on FB that it looks like a major portion of the the Sno- Wanders trail system is closed due to dispute with land owner. Sounds like won’t be easy to get from Kingfied to Carrabasett Valley. Anyone have any insight on this? Major loss for the area.
 

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I've heard the dispute is between the state and Penobscot nation. In retaliation for what the discrepancys are about, the nation has closed access to their land, which is around Carrbasett. This is what I was told by some fellas I met on the ATV trails in that area during the summer. The gentalman I spoke to was very active in the ATV club from Kingfield so I think it was good info albeit very bad news. I wonder what the state has done to piss them off now?
 

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THE CARRIAGE ROAD,
HUSTON BROOK ROAD
& THE FALLS ARE
CLOSED.

Updated as of 11/22/2021.
"We are waiting to hear from the Penobscot Nation regarding use of the Carriage Road. Please check back here for
updates as we have them. -Thank you to the Penobscot Nation for previous use of their land." Home The town is still waiting to hear from them.

Their trails have been closed to fat bikes since late May as well. "The Penobscot Nation has graciously granted trail access on an annual basis in the past and we have contacted them for 2021 permission. Until we receive such permission, and resolve any underlying concerns that may be preventing it, riders do not have permission to access portions of the CVTrails network on Penobscot Nation Lands. Respect for landowners is imbedded in the CRNEMBA mission statement and vital to the culture that we have all worked to develop in the Carrabassett Region riding community. Please do not ride on Penobscot Nation Lands until we receive permission. As of May 24, 2021 this unfortunately includes the Carriage Road linking Carrabassett Valley and the Flagstaff area." Carrabassett Valley Trail Conditions Update

From Sno-Wonderers FB club page,
Sno-wanderers Snowmobile Club

"Penobscot nation was rubbed the wrong way by another organization not snowmobiles. But shut the entire valley down.
 

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I've heard the dispute is between the state and Penobscot nation. In retaliation for what the discrepancys are about, the nation has closed access to their land, which is around Carrbasett. This is what I was told by some fellas I met on the ATV trails in that area during the summer. The gentalman I spoke to was very active in the ATV club from Kingfield so I think it was good info albeit very bad news. I wonder what the state has done to piss them off now?
this is correct, I have some land in CV right near the club trail that connects to 115
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So it looks like Carrabasett Valley is where is issue is. Sounds like this has been going on for quite a while, surprised we’re just hearing about this at the start of sled season. Very little discussion on JV Wing FB page on this. Any thoughts on will this closure effectively close JV Wing system down entirely? 115 goes by Bigelow Lodge, may be impossible to get from Kingfield to Stratton with this closed. Everything I’ve seen that CV has posted on the town website refers to summer bike access, nothing about winter/ sled access. Like Eastmark said, will be tough for the businesses in the area for sure.
 

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does anyone know where specifically 115 access ends? Staying in Stratton late January and was just starting to plan some loops

Unfortunate news, I hope they can come to an agreement so the local businesses don't suffer.
 

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I've heard the dispute is between the state and Penobscot nation........ I wonder what the state has done to piss them off now?
Their retaliation could be because of their lost lawsuit and appeals with the State of Maine over the Penobscot River. Tribe Loses Claim to Key Maine Waterway
This quote is from another lengthy article..." The Penobscot Nation see Maine’s gripping authority as a direct assault on their right to self-govern, an encroachment on their cultural lifeways and especially on their namesake river, the source of their creation story. “It’s the identity of the Penobscot Nation,” Francis told me from the tribe’s headquarters on Indian Island. "
 

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I do know the ATV trail system from Kingfield to Carrabassett was closed all of this past summer. If they can’t find a way to reopen that section for snowmobiling this winter, it would be a major blow to both riding and obviously the local economy. Any traffic from the Kingfield area to Points north would have to go either via Rangeley, or Bingham/Forks. Having the North Anson trestle open this year will help somewhat with alternative routes, but even that obviously only helps to a point.
 

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does anyone know where specifically 115 access ends? Staying in Stratton late January and was just starting to plan some loops

Unfortunate news, I hope they can come to an agreement so the local businesses don't suffer.
115 in Carabassett definitely goes right through the Penobscot land so it will be inaccessible if they don’t open the land. I believe it was December last year before they officially gave the snowmobile club permission to use the trails. Maybe there is still a chance ….
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not good news, looks like Carrabasett Valley is closed for now. Based on what’s going on with Penobscot Indians, State of Maine & Carrabasett Valley a resolution won’t be happening soon. Bummer for the whole area for sure.
Font Circle Number Screenshot Parallel
 

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White people run legal casinos in Maine. Why not let the Indians run them also? There is more to this story than that but it is a major issue. This is occurring in my backyard and is not good. We lost all the wagner /Beriut land east of the valley which shut off access from Bingham/Concord area because we said no wind towers. I was against the towers myself, I'm only giving you the facts. Now we have lost the valley. We can't afford any more trail closures in this area or we will have nothing!!!!
 

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It's sad seeing trail closures as leverage (blackmail) for issues not directly related to use of the trail. First it's beacuse of the ATV width rule, now this one. What next? "I think the sales tax is too high so I'm shutting my land" ? I understand a closure if someone persistantly litters or rides off trail in a tree farm, but if it's leverage for an unrelated issue, it tends to make me less supportive of that cause....
 

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It's sad seeing trail closures as leverage (blackmail) for issues not directly related to use of the trail. First it's beacuse of the ATV width rule, now this one. What next? "I think the sales tax is too high so I'm shutting my land" ? I understand a closure if someone persistantly litters or rides off trail in a tree farm, but if it's leverage for an unrelated issue, it tends to make me less supportive of that cause....
well the tribe has issues with the state and the courts telling them what they can and cannot do with their own land, so why would they be compelled to let others use their land, which in turn benefits the state? I don't think the tribe receives much direct benefit from allowing trail usage, do they?

I absolutely understand and support them. They're in an unenviable position
 

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from one of the replies to the facebook thread:

"News from the Town Manager Submitted by Dave Cota, Town Manager
Penobscot Indian Nation posting of their Roads and Trail Corridors: As you may know, late last fall, the Penobscot Indian Nation (PN) posted no trespassing signs on all of their roads and trail corridors in CV. Although we have never been given an explanation other than it was a Tribal Council decision, we have to assume it is primarily due to the Town’s testimony against L.D. 1628 the proposed State legislation entitled ‘An Act Implementing the Recommendations of the Task Force on Changes to the Maine Indian Land Claims Settlement Implementing Act’ (Settlement Act).
The Indian Tribes in Maine desire full Sovereignty of all of their lands including lands that are currently not in ‘Federal Trust’ (in trail Trust for their particular Tribe) and lands they may acquire. It’s very complicated legislation and too involved to discuss at length in this brief update. However, we are opposed to this legislation because, if enacted, it could significantly impact CV (more than any municipality in Maine). The legislation would allow PN to convert their 24,000 acres of land in CV into Federal Trust Land without a vote of the Town which the 1980 Settlement Act required of any such land conversion within an organized municipality.
This, in turn, could mean the loss of property taxes and the loss of Town land use regulation on what amounts to one-half of the land base of CV. We have made several attempts to start a dialogue with representatives of the PN to work with them to find solutions that might allow conversion of their CV lands into Federal Trust Lands to no avail. We believe there may be many mutual opportunities by working together but we need to start a dialogue to have
those discussions.
This legislation was tabled by the State Legislative Judiciary Committee and is due to be heard again when the legislature reconvenes in January.
In the meantime, the Carriage Road, the Huston Brook Road extension and all corridors on their land in the CV currently remain closed. If there is anything new regarding their land closures, we will provide updates on the Town website and media outlets."

sorry if the formatting is off, it was a pain to try and clean up the copy/past I got it from
 

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well the tribe has issues with the state and the courts telling them what they can and cannot do with their own land, so why would they be compelled to let others use their land, which in turn benefits the state? I don't think the tribe receives much direct benefit from allowing trail usage, do they?

I absolutely understand and support them. They're in an unenviable position
Two wrongs don't make a right....I understand their position but they're punishing people with nothing to do with it....
 

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"We have to assume it's primarily due to the Towns testimony against LD1628." "This in turn, could mean the loss of property taxes" This from a couple of posts ago citing the town managers news letter. Simply put (in my opinion) the town manager is opposed to the possibility of loosing revenue from property taxes from PN land. Big surprise! I would guess the PN don't send many children to public schools in CV. I recently bought a little piece of property in an unnamed town pretty close to CV. I was surprised by the tax bill on the land. I looked a little further into the towns budget and was surprised that the education budget for the perhaps 60 students the town sends to public schools was in the neighborhood of $20,000 per student. Is that high or am I out of touch? I would guess the state and federal gov. kicks in as well? My point is that many town managers seem to be driven by collecting tax revenue as there number one priority, at what overall cost to the public?
 
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