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Since 2005, I have owned 6 Ski-Doos put over 6,000 miles on each with ZERO chassis problems.

At my seasonal rental, there are 20 guys, and years ago it was an even mix of all brands (Cat, Polaris, Ski-Doo, and Yamaha). And now there are 19 Ski-Doo owners and 1 Arctic Cat owner (which belongs to the guy who is a retired Arctic Cat employee). Anyway, of the 19 guys who have owned multiple Revs, XP/XS, and G4 models no one has really had an issue except one guy with a 2004 REV Renegade with over 14,000 HARD miles on the sled, one of the front skid chassis mounting holes was out of round which was easily fixed. He went onto replace that sled with a Ski-Doo XP and later a Ski-Doo XS.

But no, no, you are right, Arctic Cat's superior design, engineering, and quality have led them to the coveted # 3 market position and nearly zero inventory available to non-Spring order customers. Their strategy is far superior to Ski-Doo's .... what was Ski-Doo thinking with their total lack of innovation and quality that led to terrible sales and market share.
Well this is a cat site and cat does not need a chassis stiffening kit to make it survive hard riders. But to each there own.
 

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It will be interesting to see if Cat makes any moves with the Blast pricing. So far the majority of sledder's (including myself) agree that it is a good effort to bring a category specific model for the beginner/new rider segment but hardly anyone thinks the price point hits the mark. Sales for this year, and even more critical, next year will tell the tale. This sled screams impulse purchase in November/December so I think they will lose a lot of potential sales by not making them a dealer stock item.
 

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But no, no, you are right, Arctic Cat's superior design, engineering, and quality have led them to the coveted # 1 race position .
Fixed. :D
In all seriousness, Doo selling more sleds is not because they are better, they are just bigger.
 

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In all seriousness, Doo selling more sleds is not because they are better, they are just bigger.
I think in the 90's and early 2000's Cat and Ski-Doo sales were pretty much even. Gee, I wonder how Ski-Doo got bigger? Maybe by selling an inferior product???
 

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I think in the 90's and early 2000's Cat and Ski-Doo sales were pretty much even. Gee, I wonder how Ski-Doo got bigger? Maybe by selling an inferior product???
Not sure how many times this has to be explained, but Doo getting to the size they are now had very little to do with snowmobile sales, they've always been a much larger company, and there are many reasons for that. The fact that Cat had the market share they did in the early 2000's was pretty remarkable.
 

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Not sure how many times this has to be explained, but Doo getting to the size they are now had very little to do with snowmobile sales, they've always been a much larger company, and there are many reasons for that. The fact that Cat had the market share they did in the early 2000's was pretty remarkable.
I don't think anyone was talking company size - @Trail Ryder was referring to "getting bigger" as in sales and market share. Doo getting to the size they are now (if we're talking market share) is exactly what that means ... snowmobile sales. If you want to claim Doo is where they're at because they have more resources, that's fine ... but the market share numbers are 100% based on sales of sleds.
 

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If you want to claim Doo is where they're at because they have more resources, that's fine ... but the market share numbers are 100% based on sales of sleds.
This doesn't address or counter anything about Ski-Doo/BRP/Bombardier being much larger and having more product/sled sales. I've answered what has happened and why in another thread, located here:

Post #211.
 

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This doesn't address or counter anything about Ski-Doo/BRP/Bombardier being much larger and having more product/sled sales. I've answered what has happened and why in another thread.

Anyways, in total, with poor or no marketing, poor investments, a chassis flop and ugly sled, being behind on UTV's and other products, Cat set themselves up for failure.
Sentence in bold from your other post sums it up and as others have already commented, the relative size of the companies back in 2000 had almost nothing to do with BRP's sled sales success over the last 17 of those.

Cat has now had Textron behind them for 3 years. A $13B company with 35,000 employees. BRP on the other hand has been an approx. $3B (Canadian) company with 10,000 employees since 2007. I would venture to guess that just about everyone that has ever ridden and owned an Arctic Cat snowmobile (including myself) has been hoping Textron will at some point infuse a heavy dose of innovation and R&D to get them back on track. That is really the only thing that will change anything you have listed as the primary issues.
 

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Sentence in bold from your other post sums it up and as others have already commented, the relative size of the companies back in 2000 had almost nothing to do with BRP's sled sales success over the last 17 of those.
Exactly, in those last 17 years Doo has made an average snowmobile with average performance & average reliability.
They are popular, large and attainable, that's why they've gained market share.
A Doo is not any better or worse then the competition. Doo's snowmobile market share has always been very good, even in 2005 they had 32% share, or 1/3 of the market.
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Now its about 48%.
Impressive, but its not because they build a superior machine.

I would venture to guess that just about everyone that has ever ridden and owned an Arctic Cat snowmobile (including myself) has been hoping Textron will at some point infuse a heavy dose of innovation and R&D to get them back on track.
Doo's never really been innovative, atleast when it comes to racing performance...maybe in comfort or features. Cat has brought more to the table in the last few decades when it comes to performance, and currently has the best Mountain Sled in the Alpha 1. Cat's are also better racers.
Doo makes an average machine, with average reliability, average performance and average quality. Nothing wrong with that, they accommodate a wide variety of people and the R-Motion skid has been probably the best rear skid for many years. Great machines for sure, but not any better then the competition from most standpoints.
I do agree its time for Cat to re-do their mainstream chassis, 2012 is getting back there! :D
 

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Anyways, in total, with poor or no marketing, poor investments, a chassis flop and ugly sled, being behind on UTV's and other products, Cat set themselves up for failure.

That statement has nothing to do with company size...but is absolutely true. At least Cat wasn't dumb enough to build something like the abomination that Polaris calls the Evo.
 

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At least Cat wasn't dumb enough to build something like the abomination that Polaris calls the Evo.
Really? Polaris did not really invest much to make the Evo happen and new ones can be found for under $5,000 the last time I checked. They took an existing sled, the Indy 550, and for the most part just shortened it (shorter seat, shorter suspension, etc.) and added a throttle limiter. Not a very appealing sled to an experienced adult but probably pretty awesome to a 10 year-old kid. Plus you can turn it into a regular Indy 550 when the rider needs a bigger and faster sled.

So the company with growing market share made a minimal investment to deliver a cheap tweener sled to the market, that can later be converted into an adult sled. And another company made a major tooling investment to deliver a high priced tweener sled to the market that wasn't designed to be converted for growing riders. Sounds like the "dumb" company will continue to laugh all the way to the bank.
 
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Impressive, but its not because they build a superior machine.

Doo's never really been innovative, atleast when it comes to racing performance...maybe in comfort or features.
I moved away from Cat in 2005 because quality was terrible, innovation was non-existent and the Rev changed the way sled chassis' are designed. That's innovation. Today, every other modern sled chassis looks just like it, simply took Cat longer to copy it. Every major manufacturer has a history of racing success. I don't buy any of my toys based on the fact one factory sponsored racing team beat another at some point in time. No brand has ever paid me to ride their product so until that time comes my money goes to the factory producing the best overall product.
 

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Really? Polaris did not really invest much to make the Evo happen and new ones can be found for under $5,000 the last time I checked. They took an existing sled, the Indy 550, and for the most part just shortened it (shorter seat, shorter suspension, etc.) and added a throttle limiter. Not a very appealing sled to an experienced adult but probably pretty awesome to a 10 year-old kid. Plus you can turn it into a regular Indy 550 when the rider needs a bigger and faster sled.

So the company with growing market share made a minimal investment to deliver a cheap tweener sled to the market, that can later be converted into an adult sled. And another company made a major tooling investment to deliver a high priced tweener sled to the market that wasn't designed to be converted for growing riders. Sounds like the "dumb" company will continue to laugh all the way to the bank.
Except the Cat is not a tweener sled. It is made for smaller adults. Try to keep up! Minimal tooling. Tunnel is basically an older ZR version and even comes with the same older tunnel cooler. The hood is really the only new thing on it and that cost next to nothing to change. Polaris is no inovater with the EVO.
 

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...So the company with growing market share made a minimal investment to deliver a cheap tweener sled to the market, that can later be converted into an adult sled. And another company made a major tooling investment to deliver a high priced tweener sled to the market that wasn't designed to be converted for growing riders. Sounds like the "dumb" company will continue to laugh all the way to the bank.
No one will covert a EVO to a adult sled. That’s just something you read on the internet. I have rode a Blast and it does not have to be converted to a adult sled. It does not look smaller when you walk up to it. It does look and feel slightly cheaper when you look at it and when you ride it. It might be considered a tweener when you consider the time it takes to get up to speed but Cat left a bid gap between the Blast and their next smaller sled.
 

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Except the Cat is not a tweener sled. It is made for smaller adults.
It sure felt like a tweener sled when I rode it.
Minimal tooling. Tunnel is basically an older ZR version and even comes with the same older tunnel cooler. The hood is really the only new thing on it and that cost next to nothing to change.
Are you saying that Cat didn't spend any money on tooling other than the hood and they used all existing tooling on that smaller tunnel??? Were you able to confirm this with your friends that work for Textron?
Polaris is no inovater with the EVO.
Not a ton of innovation in the Evo, but it is a creative idea. I guess Polaris's main focus has been increasing market share and making money.
No one will covert a EVO to a adult sled.
I am sure a few will coNvert an EVO to an adult sled as kids grow. Polaris made a conversion kit, but it's not cheap or easy to install.

Again, I have ridden the Blast and it is a nice little unit .... except it is priced too high for what it is. I don't think Cat will sell many.
 
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After demo riding the Blast, I could only see a very small adult using this as their main sled.

And I have ridden the Blast back to back with a Procross, and in no way (other than maybe color) does the Blast seem like a scaled down Procross. I and others are not saying the Blast is a bad sled but when leftover Evos can be had for about $4,300 USD, that Blast does not seem like too much of a value.

The $8,095 Blast seems like even less of a value when compared to a brand new MXZ G4 600 twin-cylinder EFI liquid.
Curious where there is a leftover Evo for 4300.00? Leftovers here are 5899.00. new are 5999.00?
 

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Curious where there is a leftover Evo for 4300.00? Leftovers here are 5899.00. new are 5999.00?
At the end of last season, Filer's Power Sports was selling left-over Indy EVOs for $4,299. They currently are offering a new 2019 Indy EVOs ES for $5,699 and they have a demo with a warranty for $4,999.
 
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At the end of last season, Filer's Power Sports was selling left-over Indy EVOs for $4,299. They currently are offering a new 2019 Indy EVOs ES for $5,699 and they have a demo with a warranty for $4,999.
I see, so you can't buy them at 4300.00. But you can buy a leftover 5700.00, not a 2020, or used for 5,000.00. Got it.
 
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