Hardcore Sledder banner

1 - 20 of 98 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,427 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am wondering what the scoop is this year. It has been fairly quiet in regards to trail passes.

Our club meets next week. But I am curious what others have heard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
Well I've got to vent on this some where so it might as well be here, Hold on!

I have not heard anything lately on this either other than what I have read in RidersWest(?) magazine, here's my big beef. A licence and permit required on all crown land, provincial parks etc...

Well good luck ever enforcing this up north:
1) No resident whose family built and use most of the elan trails on the crown land, lakes and in the provincial park up there are ever going to do this.
2) The most northerly club has some people who have put less $$ into sledding in their lifetimes than those who built and maintain the trails do in two years yet they want people to pay to ride on "their" designated trails which they did not build, do not sign, and do not maintain.
3) With this rule even if you ride on a lake away from "their" trail which is not marked or maintained you can still be nailed for no SSA trail permit? Tell you what. I've rode and built these trails my entire life so if you think you can find me to issue a ticket you're more than welcome to try, and if by chance I am registered and wrap it around a tree in one of "your" unmarked, unmaintained trails, expect a claim.

Chitty attitude, but don't lay claim so someone else's work, annex that work and collect awards on it, do nothing to maintain it other than claim ownership of it, and then expect people to like or pay for it. We paid when we used our gas, time, and tools to build the things. And if you do want to claim it as yours then be prepared to take the bad (claims against your club) along with the good (awards).

Done , Thanks it feels better to get that out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,151 Posts
I haven't heard anything either, but i'm sure it will be the same as last year. I believe that to get a change to including a fee in the vehicle registration will require legislative approval. I would doubt that it could get on the order paper and through the legislature in time for this season.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
I have been listening to, not to much said yet. I was very disapointed last year. i had my sled in regina a few times last year, tried the trail to regina beach, was so rough i rode in the feild beside the trail. I know we pay less for trail permit that some other provinces but, i think the oportunity for sleding in sask is great, I did alot of riding in the provincal parks last year, what a change in trails from the rest. The parks are much nicer. If there is no change i will stay in the park. i dont need a pass there. I would gladly put the money out for a permit but i have to see some results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
Under new proposed rules permits are required in all provincial parks, which I have no problem with if the trails are built and maintained by the SSA. I do know of one provincial park however where ALL of the trails were built and are maintained by community sledders (just local joes trying to get from A to B) not in any clubs (but a club has been claiming credit/ownership for the trails with no work put in by them). Check out SSA's AGM minutes for a glimpse of new proposed rules.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,427 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am just curious. Is there anyone on here from the Regina Club. What is the scoop with the trails around there? FOr the last few years it seems as if the whole system there is becoming less and less usable. IS it just the landowners causing problems of lack of volunteers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
Originally posted by ZRJoe@Sep 29 2005, 09:07 AM
I am just curious. Is there anyone on here from the Regina Club. What is the scoop with the trails around there? FOr the last few years it seems as if the whole system there is becoming less and less usable. IS it just the landowners causing problems of lack of volunteers.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=899024
[/quote]

I haven't heard anything yet, not even of a meeting date so far :dunno:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,427 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Really??? No Passes.

Oh that is going to make the clubs. AND me for instance want to bust a hump to clean and mark.

Back to the fields and ditches. Barbed wire! Rocks, Culverts (Calverts!)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,427 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just got the news...


Same ol as last year.


$65.00 before Dec. 1st.
$90.00 After.


So.... those who want... you again have the choice!!!!


Hoping for a good winter!!!

:div20:
 

·
Registered
2 x 2021 900T's- 6737 KM
Joined
·
1,646 Posts
I phoned SSA on the 27th and the lady said that nothing is final till the "Government" decides, about the middle of Nov., but her guess was no permits...just added to the license plate....They think it will be called "A trail maintence fee".....No idea of the price.... :dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Originally posted by Rev@ M&S,Oct 29 2005, 07:38 PM
I phoned SSA on the 27th and the lady said that nothing is final till the "Government" decides, about the middle of Nov., but her guess was no permits...just added to the license plate....They think it will be called "A trail maintence fee".....No idea of the price.... :dunno:
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=965769
[/quote]
I don't mind that at all... 1 less thing to worry about, and not to mention the people that dont buy them and still use the trails.. at one point or another they are on the trail system even if they say they dont.... atleast this will ensure the maintenance of our trails... they are getting bigger and better... sure beats hammering the rough feilds :div20:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
QUOTE]Blackmax Posted Today, 07:59 PM
at one point or another they are on the trail system even if they say they dont
[/QUOTE]
That's a mighty eastern attitude there, originally from Toronto maybe? Not EVERYONE rides down south and as I have pointed out earlier, to tie trail permits to plates means that nobody has the option not to pay even with a legitimate reason not to: if there are no trails where they ride (its a big underpopulated province and trails don't go everywhere), and everytime the sled changes registration in a year the trail permit fee is collected again. That is a blatant money grab.

I am getting a little bit tired of this "big brother legislate everything to death attitude" that seems to be popular now. Nobody has to belong to ANY club to work on trails, do community service work, etc.. What happened to the days when a few people could get together on their own and do something decent for the communitry they live in, or the activies they are involved in without some chithead from some cliquey club bitching because "those people just went and did it, they're not in an organization" Since when does someone have to join an organization to do the right thing? IMO we need more doers in this society and less talkers and organizers.

Two 14 year old girls get killed on quads (with helmets and it IS a tragedy, not arguing that) but the knee jerk reaction is that quads should be limited to people 16 and over with a training course. Guess what, farm kids have been driving quads, tractors, trucks, cars and more for decades. Its called parental supervision and control. Watch Mountain Mod Mainia 3 and you will see an 11 year old riding and handling a M7 w/NOS more responsibly and better than 50 years olds on Mach Z's

A liberal MP gets on the radio and believes he is a hero because he was born and raised in Toronto and therefore thinks he is fully informed and correct when he says nobody in that city should have a gun for any reason and the police should search and sieze every house in the city. Guess what, hunters live in Toronto, Olympic target shooter live in Toronto, collectors live in Toronto, and the world doesn't revolve around Toronto. (probably get lynched if anybody from Toronto reads that last point). Just because it is not your hobby or area of interest doesn't mean that nobody should do it (otherwise maybe politics would be legislated out of existence by those of us that think it is pointless, stupid, and harmful)

Point is, much like the NHL (or guns or quads), the rules exist for using SSA trails just like anti obstruction rules exist in the NHL. But if the rules aren't enforced then nobody will adhere to them (hence riders using trails without permits and clutching and grabbing in the NHL). Tieing the permit to plates isn't a solution to the problem, it is a copout to actually enforcing the rules. Instead of targeting scoff laws, the new rules would target the entire legitimate snowmobiling community and force riders in areas with no trails to subsidize riders in areas with trails. As well, how many scoff laws are registering their sleds, my bet is if they don't pony up the dough for a permit they probably aren't plating their machines either (and you can get insurance without plates). Some of us would rather drift bust than follow a groomed trail, and so long as it is private land with permission or public land, that isn't a problem. Also there are thousands of miles of ungroomed, unmark trails in SK (if you know where to look) that aren't under the control of any club, and from the trail maintenance that I have seen, the unofficial trails are as good as the official ones (except for Greenwater provincial park, those trails are worth paying for).

Kind of like a Blog entry but what the heck, hardly anybody posts in here anyways.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
QUOTE]Blackmax Posted Today, 07:59 PM
at one point or another they are on the trail system even if they say they dont
That's a mighty eastern attitude there, originally from Toronto maybe? Not EVERYONE rides down south and as I have pointed out earlier, to tie trail permits to plates means that nobody has the option not to pay even with a legitimate reason not to: if there are no trails where they ride (its a big underpopulated province and trails don't go everywhere), and everytime the sled changes registration in a year the trail permit fee is collected again. That is a blatant money grab.

I am getting a little bit tired of this "big brother legislate everything to death attitude" that seems to be popular now. Nobody has to belong to ANY club to work on trails, do community service work, etc.. What happened to the days when a few people could get together on their own and do something decent for the communitry they live in, or the activies they are involved in without some chithead from some cliquey club bitching because "those people just went and did it, they're not in an organization" Since when does someone have to join an organization to do the right thing? IMO we need more doers in this society and less talkers and organizers.

Two 14 year old girls get killed on quads (with helmets and it IS a tragedy, not arguing that) but the knee jerk reaction is that quads should be limited to people 16 and over with a training course. Guess what, farm kids have been driving quads, tractors, trucks, cars and more for decades. Its called parental supervision and control. Watch Mountain Mod Mainia 3 and you will see a 12 year old riding and handling a M7 w/NOS more responsibly and better than 50 years olds on Mach Z's

A liberal MP gets on the radio and believes he is a hero because he was born and raised in Toronto and therefore thinks he is fully informed and correct when he says nobody in that city should have a gun for any reason and the police should search and sieze every house in the city. Guess what, hunters live in Toronto, Olympic target shooter live in Toronto, collectors live in Toronto, and the world doesn't revolve around Toronto. (probably get lynched if anybody from Toronto reads that last point). Just because it is not your hobby or area of interest doesn't mean that nobody should do it (otherwise maybe politics would be legislated out of existence by those of us that think it is pointless, stupid, and harmful)

Point is, much like the NHL (or guns or quads), the rules exist for using SSA trails just like anti obstruction rules exist in the NHL. But if the rules aren't enforced then nobody will adhere to them (hence riders using trails without permits and clutching and grabbing in the NHL). Tieing the permit to plates isn't a solution to the problem, it is a copout to actually enforcing the rules. Instead of targeting scoff laws the new rules would target the entire legitimate snowmobiling community and force riders in areas with no trails to subsidize riders in areas with trails. As well, how many scoff laws are registering their sleds, my bet is if they don't pony up the dough for a permit they probably aren't plating their machines either (and you can get insurance without plates). Some of us would rather drift bust than follow a groomed trail, and so long as it is private land with permission or public land, that isn't a problem. Also there are thousands of miles of ungroomed, unmark trails in SK (if you know where to look) that aren't under the control of any club, and from the trail maintenance that I have seen, the unofficial trails are as good as the official ones (except for Greenwater provincial park, those trails are worth paying for).

Kind of like a Blog entry but what the heck, hardly anybody posts in here anyways.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=966081
[/quote]


so what you buy or dont buy permits? I cant make out if you have ever had one.. :cn: If you ever come down from " up north" you would pretty much end up on some groomed trails somewhere dont you think... so wouldnt you rather have a lower costing permit than what it is now... Its never fair! someone always gets screwed....

BM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
I currently buy permits because I have recently moved to an area where there are official trails (although maintained would be stretching it) and private land; I agree with the user pay system even if the user only chooses to use the right they paid for once a year. However I also see the other side, which is a true non-user should not have to pay ever. I still ride primarily back home where there are no official trails, 100% of the land is crown, and 100% of the people I ride with at home build and maintain the trails on their own. We built and maintained trails for 20 years on our own dime. These people should not have to subsidize the rest of the province. Even in the area I currently reside it is very easy (and more fun) to ride non-official trails that new friends have shown me on their own and crown land (forest fringe area). As I have now learned the area I am 100% confident that I could ride all season here and at home without making a track on any legitimate SSA trail.

I don't believe in a lower cost permit if the culprits that are not paying are still not caught in the net. The new program would transfer the cost of the current using non payers to current non using non payers, thereby punishing the innocent and not doing anything to the real culprits in the first place. Only enforcement of existing regulations will remedy the problem and truly put the costs where they belong. Without it the SSA is just proving that crime does pay. The culprits will continue to use the trails free of charge while legitimate sledders in non trail areas get the shaft, so the problem isn't solved at all. In fact another one is created by pissing off sledders in non trail areas who will be forced to stop plating their machines to avoid an unfair cost (sound familiar, just like gun registration making instant criminals of law abiding citizens while criminals still laugh at the system).

Maintenance is a different can of worms. The one time I was on an official trail in my area last year I had great fun because the groomer hadn't been out all year, there were no signs, but my GPS still had the routes in it and the chainsaw I always carry (old habit) came in handy. On the way back I ran into another group who, when seeing I was who they were following, asked me why I wasn't signing. When I told them I was just out for a ride and not a club member (they had assumed I was, carrying a saw and cutting logs off the trail and all) they thanked me for making the trail passable and wondered how far I had gone so that they knew where they might get stopped (no saw with them). It was worth far more than the $130 in fees I paid to ride the trail, knowing that three families vacations weren't disappointed by a lack of riding on trails that they had paid to support. The only time the trail was opened all year beyond that was for a major snow rally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
its not going to be fair to everyone, never has and never will... But I think if I can afford a new sled, I can afford plates... it wont be long and we will have to plate our ATVs... and getting that extra surplus I cant see them keeping the price the same... but if sledders want to run around without plates to prove a point that they are not going to win, pretty sure the fines are going to be more than the plates... and if they have that good ole attitude that is: CATCH ME IF YOU CAN : thats how these accidents happen on the trails, so whos going to win, nobody... thats why its not going to bother me, because everything is not fair to someone at some point... :beerchug:


BM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
Blackmax Posted Today, 09:08 AM
but if sledders want to run around without plates to prove a point that they are not going to win, pretty sure the fines are going to be more than the plates... [/b]
That's the point, there are already fines for riding without a permit and these are not enforced so why would scoff laws think that enforcement of riding without plates is going to be any different? As I said before, all the new rules do is make the problem larger by involving more people who weren't involved before. Without enforcement all the rules in the world won't make a difference.

As for not being fair and this bringing in an extra surplus, I am pretty sure those people who are forced to pay in non-trail areas are going to demand service for their money and get a piece of the pie thereby spreading the money even thinner causing more hardship and larger fees for all. It does not take much to start a club on paper and I would venture to guess that the north has far more sleds than the south so if the money distribution is based on number of registered sleds in an area and all are forced to register, it could end up that those in the south where there are official trails end up subsidizing the north where new clubs spring up. This would leave less money to service existing trails in areas where they are needed (down south where places to ride are scarce) and divert money to new areas for "construction" (up north where plenty of riding area already exists). It may turn into a case of be careful what you wish for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
good point :div20: cant make everyone happy... theres no happy medium... you guys up norththat dont need permits and clubs down here dealing with non permited sleds running the groomed trails... they cost money... I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens.... either way I pay to ride :div20:


BM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
Balckmax,

Don't get caught up in the way of thinking that most people ride trails. I live down in southern Sask, and avoid trails like the plague. Not to mention when I have been on trails, the majority of them are down old roads. IMHO everytime I have spent money on a trail pass it has been a waste. Poor maintenence or signs. Why don't we halp you ask? Because it makes no difference to me whether I ride a trail ever. Infact to me trails is one step closer to regulating us to the point where we will only be allowed on trails....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
greeezemonkey...
if you dont think that trails are worth 60 a year, then by all means stay out on the rough feilds... this is why clubs have trouble maintaining trails, not enough permits sold to groom when needed... and then your complaining... the members still have to pay for it if they want it.. so if everybody had the idea that it is not worth paying for then there will not be anymore trails... your missing the point of trails, it doesnt matter where they are built, its to make them marked and groomed for your safty :div20: these trails are for every age rider, you cant expect newbys to the sport to do the open rough feilds... there would be a decrease in sledding if everyone rode open feild like you... and dont tell me that you wont miss them when they are gone... regina to lumsden is groomed sometimes, and it is wore down to the dirt... I guess your right, not everyone uses the trails... not saying that its like that everywhere but more and more sledders are starting to drive these trails and seeing what its all about... I think that you are starting to be in the minority.... but thats justs my :m2c:


BM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
BM

In the end I think we can agree that the problem is NOT people who do not ride, and have no interest in riding groomed trails (whether they ride in the north, south, or trailer to the mountains). Do not in the previous sentence means not once.

The problem is people who do ride groomed trails and don't pay!

Getting everyone in the province to pay is not the solution (there are plenty of activities and interests that each of us have and somebody who doesn’t have the same interest shouldn’t be forced to fund those that do, whether its 50 cents or 90 dollars). Choice is one of the great things about a democracy. Saying that it won’t be fair for everyone and that’s just life is easy to say but if you were asked to subsidize say… a 4x4 offroad truck club, because you own a truck, and you have no choice in the matter “because we need funding and no system will be fair for everyone and its only $90 a year” I think you might object if that was not your interest and you had no intention of offroading your truck. See, it is not a money thing ($90 isn't even one belt and I go through puhlenty of them in a year), it is a choice and service thing, why pay money for service you don't and won't EVER use. And the sanctimonious rhetoric that I get from some people (one particular lady in my face) about "how can you possibly ride without ever being on a groomed trail, I just don't believe its possible, and you couldn't possibly like it!" doesn't help, get out much lady? I'm not you lady, I don't wax either!

The system should be as it is now, a user pay system!

If there is a problem with users not paying, address those users! Don’t just dump it off on everyone in the province and say our problem is everyone’s problem! Because that is simply not right and untrue.

How to address the users? Just brainstorming because I hate bringing up problems without offering some possible solutions:
1) Well enforcement for one, by ZRJoes own admission, two cops in seven years? I have NEVER seen enforcement in the short while I spent on groomed trails. How do others do it? Take a queue from some successful jurisdictions.
2) Make clubs more fun and approachable, many of the posts on this site (Manitoba side I believe) related stories about how so many clubs seemed to have sticks inserted in their posterior when new members try to “crack the clique”.
3) Advertise the trails, passes, and benefits in a more public (general public not snowmobiling public) way not just at the snow show that only a handful attend.

Basically I think that we, the respondants to this thread, have no problem with each others riding choices, it is those who use legitimate groomed trails and don't pay that create the problems.
 
1 - 20 of 98 Posts
Top