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Snowtech was wrong. The 650 Patriot, is like other recent engines from Polaris. It has 2 fuel type settings, based on what fuel you are using, and maximum performance is obtained with 91 octane or higher Non-ethanol fuel in the 91 NON-ETHANOL fuel type setting.
It will run fine on 87 octane upto 10% ethanol, in the NON-PREMIUM / ETHANOL fuel type setting

OK thanks, I wonder why where they got that info.
 

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Wasn't it Polaris, that promoted the 650 as being an 87 octane type of sled? I swear that was one of the promotional aspects to the new 650.
As far as I remember, yes. I have only ran 91 non ethanol in my 650 this year. I have only filled from the same station and the same pump, each time. A dual dispensing pump. So if the last user got ethy, I did get the ethy left in the hose till the 91 cleared it out.
 
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You guys are really tipping me towards the 650 with the feedback and other reviews ... thanks! Keep 'em coming (good or bad). I think my biggest decision will be to go for a VR1 with the 7s - or a Launch with the standard MFD. Because I typically buy new every other year, I may opt for the VR1 and gauge since it will help will the resale.
Yes go Vr1. You only pay the difference for the upgrade once. The new gauge makes the others look like a 1960s computer.
 

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Yes go Vr1. You only pay the difference for the upgrade once. The new gauge makes the others look like a 1960s computer.
I'll take a old Sun tach anyday:cool:
 

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I did 343 miles on Saturday and logged my fuel intake for the day.
I ride extremely hard and weigh 200 pounds.
I averaged 11.8 mpg for the day. The sled was in non-prem ethanol mode for the day as some stations contained ethanol.

The following day, I did 208 miles, but switched it to non-ethanol premium as the station i fueled up at on sunday morning was just that. I rode a little slower for the day, but not much slower. Still probably harder than 85% of how most all people ride. I averaged 13.7 for the day.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I am both unfortunately. I kind of got sucked in by polaris again as far as economy. Power is what they said it would be but in hind sight I should have gotten another 850.
Good to read this because I'm in the same boat. I just can't talk myself out of looking seriously at the 650 ... times have changed in how my primary group rides. We used to line up on the several times per weekend, and now it's maybe one or two times a year. Trail riding is what we do, and even with that we've slowed down a bit. It's fun to crank it up though - we just don't do it was often as we used to.
 
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17 xcr 600,19 indy xc 800, 21 mxz 600
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Doesn't the Polaris Ride app store your rides? Why not just hit details, snap a pic of it, post it, add a couple details like conditions and fuel used, done.
 

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Here is where Snowtech mentions 87 octane several times. They don't screw up info like this. So what is the deal? Did Polaris get end up feeling 91 would be safer? Doesn't make sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #32

Here is where Snowtech mentions 87 octane several times. They don't screw up info like this. So what is the deal? Did Polaris get end up feeling 91 would be safer? Doesn't make sense.
I'm damn near positive that was right from the Polaris promotional literature back in March last year ... regarding the 87 octane reference. As far as the 91 being safer? My gut feeling is, Polaris was running prototype sleds which likely WERE fine with 87 and then being forced to tighten things up production wise, with EPA compliance, they fell into 91 being more safe (and falling under the fine print of "Subject to change"). Maybe not - but that's my take on it.
 

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MY21 650 SBA 146, ES, ICE Storm 1.5
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Linked in Matryx FAQ sticky

I'm damn near positive that was right from the Polaris promotional literature back in March last year ... regarding the 87 octane reference. As far as the 91 being safer? My gut feeling is, Polaris was running prototype sleds which likely WERE fine with 87 and then being forced to tighten things up production wise, with EPA compliance, they fell into 91 being more safe (and falling under the fine print of "Subject to change"). Maybe not - but that's my take on it.
END QUOTE

Polaris has not said 91 octane is safer.

In fact it is the opposite. If unsure of the fuel in the tank, do NOT use the 91 NON-ETHANOL fuel type setting. Page 137 of the Owners Manual lays this all out very clearly. Folks need to let go of incorrect information they saw in spring of 2020.

The 650 Patriot engine is safe using 87 octane upto 10% ethanol, when the fuel type is set to NON-PREMIUM / ETHANOL.

QUOTE:
NORTH AMERICAN FUEL
For peak performance, POLARIS recommends the use of fresh quality, nonoxygenated
91 octane level fuel or above. Although 87 octane fuel is usable,
some engine performance will be lost and fuel economy will decrease. NEVER
use unleaded fuels with an ethanol rating of E15 or E85 as severe engine
damage may occur.

ENDQUOTE

2118435


Let's take a look at a Polaris web page from April 4, 2020:
2118436


Optimized for 87 octane fuel...

What does Optimized mean?

Courtesy of Oxford languages:

"make the best or most effective use of (a situation, opportunity, or resource)."


This 650 Patriot engine has tuning and engineering design to make the best or most effective use of 87 octane fuel.
---
IF I said that the 2022 Matryx 650 INDY XCR was optimized for 6 inch moguls at 50 mph, with 180 lb. rider weight you would probably understand what that meant.

Would you be surprised when I said that the 2022 Matryx 650 INDY XCR has its best ride on smooth groomed trails?

Why does it surprise anyone
that the engineers were able to get peak performance out of an engine when it was set for and running fuel with higher octane and more energy per gallon?
 

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Discussion Starter #34
My response about "safer" was to @sledlover .... see below


Here is where Snowtech mentions 87 octane several times. They don't screw up info like this. So what is the deal? Did Polaris get end up feeling 91 would be safer? Doesn't make sense.
 

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MY21 650 SBA 146, ES, ICE Storm 1.5
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So it seems like a new marketing ploy to me by Polaris since these fuel settings have been on their sleds forever. If there is indeed more performance by running premium in the premium mode vs 87 in the 87 mode.

I was taught that running premium in a vehicle that requires lower octane is a waste of money and actually will make less power.
 

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MY21 650 SBA 146, ES, ICE Storm 1.5
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So it seems like a new marketing ploy to me by Polaris since these fuel settings have been on their sleds forever. If there is indeed more performance by running premium in the premium mode vs 87 in the 87 mode.

I was taught that running premium in a vehicle that requires lower octane is a waste of money and actually will make less power.
That is no longer true when the operators can tell the vehicle which fuel it has, and the computerized engine management system can then make adjustments to optimize the performance with that fuel.
 

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So it seems like a new marketing ploy to me by Polaris since these fuel settings have been on their sleds forever. If there is indeed more performance by running premium in the premium mode vs 87 in the 87 mode.

I was taught that running premium in a vehicle that requires lower octane is a waste of money and actually will make less power.
You were taught wrong. Higher octane fuel doesn't make less power in an engine designed for regular than regular does despite lots of false statements to the contrary. And it burns at the same rate. But, there's no need to use premium if regular is okay.
This is just one of many articles on this subject:
 

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You were taught wrong. Higher octane fuel doesn't make less power in an engine designed for regular than regular does despite lots of false statements to the contrary. And it burns at the same rate. But, there's no need to use premium if regular is okay.
This is just one of many articles on this subject:
The Accord made less power on premium in your test...

Sounds like Polaris is the best of both worlds with the ability to change settings. Which is nothing new on their sleds. Would be interesting to do a similar test with 87 and 91 in the 650 to measure power and performance.
 

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The Accord made less power on premium in your test...

Sounds like Polaris is the best of both worlds with the ability to change settings. Which is nothing new on their sleds. Would be interesting to do a similar test with 87 and 91 in the 650 to measure power and performance.
The Accord result was a fluke as they stated in the article.
In the 650, I suspect that neither fuel would show a major difference if used in the ethanol mode. A minor difference could possibly be because the ethanol mode runs richer and the premium fuel if non-ethanol would be even richer. If both are the same % ethanol fuel, then it should be the same power.

One of the most important things about fuel is freshness. This affects full vaporization. Fuel will not burn completely in the combustion chamber if it doesn't vaporize. Premium fuel is often stale due to less usage. This is extremely important in a 2 stroke engine. DTR has seen loss of hp simply due to stale fuel so they test all fuel used for this characteristic using an RVP tester. Fuel that doesn't completely burn actually causes lean mixtures and can seize the engine even though an AFR gauge reading or fuel flow appears safe. Many so called "cold seizures" are actually caused by poor fuel vaporization. Warming the engine up before riding is really helping low volatility fuel to vaporize.

A FITCH fuel catalyst cannister is designed for this problem and is what I recommend be used in all my and my friends/customer's sleds.
 
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