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Certainly the case if sleds are lasting longer and incrementally new sleds are purchased annually.
Goes against the doom and gloom from sales not being what the once were. I'd hope sleds would last longer at their current prices (by current, I mean setting aside the crazyness of the past few years). The only way sled sales went down this year was because there were none to buy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Lots of people are racking up 20,000 to 30,000 miles or more on their 4-stroke sleds, which increases the numbers of useable, existing sleds out there on the trails; and decreases the need for new sleds (not that there a lot of new sleds available).

Not too long ago, 10,000 mile sleds were being parted out and scrapped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
With 133,444 total annual volume, here is an interesting hypothetical break down:
  • 52% of 133,444 units = 69,391 units
  • 35% of 133,444 units = 46,705 units
  • 10% of 133,444 units = 13,344 units
  • 3% of 133,444 units = 4,003 units
Certainly puts things into perspective when a manufacturer is buying raw material, amortizing tooling, leveraging component volume, etc. As well as when they can leverage technology, drive trains, etc. across other product segments (ATVs, SXSs, PWCs, etc.).

And to think about 20 years ago, the big 4's annual sales / % of market share was pretty even.
 

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Observations:
  • sales are less than half what they were back in the mid to late 90s (I recall back then that sales in the "tri-states" were greater than all of Canada's; now, US sales are about 10% greater than Canada's)
  • Canadian sales have remained pretty much static over the years

Additional info (not featured above, but factual):
  • sales in Russia were heading upwards, particularly in the early 2010's and were expected to exceed Canada's within a few years, then Putin decided to invade Crimea in 2014... sales tanked and have never recovered (and with Vlady's latest adventure in Ukraine, they likely never will)
  • Quebec is now the largest infranational market
 

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With 133,444 total annual volume, here is an interesting break down:
  • 52% of 133,444 units = 69,391 units
  • 35% of 133,444 units = 46,705 units
  • 10% of 133,444 units = 13,344 units
  • 3% of 133,444 units = 4,003 units
Certainly puts things into perspective when a manufacturer is buying raw material, amortizing tooling, leveraging component volume, etc. As well as when they can leverage technology, drive trains, etc. across other product segments (ATVs, SXSs, PWCs, etc.).

And to think about 20 years ago, the big 4's annual sales / % of market share was pretty even.
A real shame that Cat's mismanagement in the past decade (the "Claude Jordan years" principally) have really hurt the company (same goes for Yamaha's early 2000s decision to ditch two-strokes; mind you, sled sales are a single drop in a big bucket for them). At the same time, love them or hate them, BRP has really turned up the wick and is clearly THE dominant player in the industry, and when you look at the pace of innovation it has, it doesn't look like that will change any time soon.
 

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With 133,444 total annual volume, here is an interesting break down:
  • 52% of 133,444 units = 69,391 units
  • 35% of 133,444 units = 46,705 units
  • 10% of 133,444 units = 13,344 units
  • 3% of 133,444 units = 4,003 units
Certainly puts things into perspective when a manufacturer is buying raw material, amortizing tooling, leveraging component volume, etc. As well as when they can leverage technology, drive trains, etc. across other product segments (ATVs, SXSs, PWCs, etc.).

And to think about 20 years ago, the big 4's annual sales / % of market share was pretty even.
Where are you pulling these percentages from? They weren't in the linked article. I'm not saying they're wrong, but I would have thought Polaris would be closer to Doo. I heard Poo 2 strokes out sold Doo 2 strokes recently, if so - Doo must sell a lot of 4 strokes..
 

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Where are you pulling these percentages from? They weren't in the linked article. I'm not saying they're wrong, but I would have thought Polaris would be closer to Doo. I heard Poo 2 strokes out sold Doo 2 strokes recently, if so - Doo must sell a lot of 4 strokes..
They doo, uh, I mean they do... why do you think Polaris introduced one this year? Last figure I saw, about 30% of the market was four-strokes, which works out to about 40,000 units annually. Figure Cat only has the T-Cat left and Yamaha's numbers are quite small overall (and Polaris' last offering was MY2014), it's not hard to see where a sizeable portion of Doo's sales comes from (including Quebec, where they dominate and which is very four-stroke as riders here are high mileage and want reliability and longevity that only a four-stroke can deliver).
 

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It's not the 4-stroke that killed Yamaha, it's the lack of chassis development. The Apex engine was great but Yamaha milked that chassis for 13 years. Cat's doing the same thing now with the Procross.
It was both (their suspensions sucked too btw). You can't survive competing for a measly 30% of a market whose total volume is barely over 100,000 units.

FWIW, Doo ran the REV-X line of chassis (as their mainstay) from 2008 to 2016 (at which time they started the transition to the "G4") and the Polaris Pro-Ride/Axys/Matryx family of platforms has been with us since 2010... so chassis development is hardly the most dynamic area of snowmobile development (hardly surprising given the minuscule industry sales volume). For comparison purposes, Yamaha sells well over 6 MILLION bikes per year...
 

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It's not the 4-stroke that killed Yamaha, it's the lack of chassis development. The Apex engine was great but Yamaha milked that chassis for 13 years. Cat's doing the same thing now with the Procross.
Your spot on! That was Yamahas pattern with each chassis. They never moved forward they would just sit on one platform for ever.
 
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