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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I searched through the other 2020 post and didn't find specific discussion of the 800 mill changes, so I decided to start a specific thread.

SnowGoer reported the following:
"The brand upgraded its C-TEC2 8000-series engine with new cylinders, pistons, combustion chamber, flywheel, fuel rail and calibrations, with promises of more responsiveness, better fuel economy and cleaner running overall from a powerplant with a claimed horsepower output of 165 ponies."


I'm wondering WHY new cylinders after only two model years? Are 2018-2019 owners going to regret having bought a pre-2020 machine? Seems like Cat wouldn't change cylinders and pistons unless there was a warranty issue they're addressing.

I can understand the flywheel, fuel and mapping changes..... but the cylinder and piston change scares me. I need more data... what do folks know about this?
 

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My dealer knows the engine guy at cat and he told him the new motor will make a few more ponies than the old motor but not a lot more. He said the changes will address the flaming issue and they got rid of the slot in the pistons and are injecting from the bottom now to lube the wrist pin. The motor will be a little stronger, cleaner burning and efficient. He said they had a reed and pipe combo that added a significant jump in HP but it got axed by Cat Brass. The good news is hopefully that will be an easy add on for cheap aftermarket gains.
 

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My dealer knows the engine guy at cat and he told him the new motor will make a few more ponies than the old motor but not a lot more. He said the changes will address the flaming issue and they got rid of the slot in the pistons and are injecting from the bottom now to lube the wrist pin. The motor will be a little stronger, cleaner burning and efficient. He said they had a reed and pipe combo that added a significant jump in HP but it got axed by Cat Brass. The good news is hopefully that will be an easy add on for cheap aftermarket gains.
According to my new issue of SnowTech Cat is dropping the Dual Stage Injection and moving to Transfer Port Injection. So they have to cast new cylinders.
 

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I wonder if the oil line mess will disappear? Looks like a bird nest on some of these things.
 

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I searched through the other 2020 post and didn't find specific discussion of the 800 mill changes, so I decided to start a specific thread.

SnowGoer reported the following:
"The brand upgraded its C-TEC2 8000-series engine with new cylinders, pistons, combustion chamber, flywheel, fuel rail and calibrations, with promises of more responsiveness, better fuel economy and cleaner running overall from a powerplant with a claimed horsepower output of 165 ponies."


I'm wondering WHY new cylinders after only two model years? Are 2018-2019 owners going to regret having bought a pre-2020 machine? Seems like Cat wouldn't change cylinders and pistons unless there was a warranty issue they're addressing.

I can understand the flywheel, fuel and mapping changes..... but the cylinder and piston change scares me. I need more data... what do folks know about this?
I haven't seen Cat claiming 165hp they say 165hp class, so I'm guessing 160ish hopefully more. Leaves room for the after market guys to get the real HP from the Cat motors and they don't have to meet EPA regulations. :fistpump2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the info. Had I known Cat was going to abandon the ctec-2 dual stage, I would not have bought one. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

To bull dog's comment about lubing the wrist pin, does this mean that the poor folks that own the 2018/2019 sleds will see problems with needle cage bearing failure due to insufficient oiling? Can you elaborate?

Sounds like way to many engine changes for 2018/2019 owners to update. Dang, I can't really be mad at myself for having just bought one, but it sure is depressing to learn of the change.
 

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Thanks for the info. Had I known Cat was going to abandon the ctec-2 dual stage, I would not have bought one. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

To bull dog's comment about lubing the wrist pin, does this mean that the poor folks that own the 2018/2019 sleds will see problems with needle cage bearing failure due to insufficient oiling? Can you elaborate?

Sounds like way to many engine changes for 2018/2019 owners to update. Dang, I can't really be mad at myself for having just bought one, but it sure is depressing to learn of the change.
Yeah, it makes a guy wonder what is really going on with the original motor...
 

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Probably nothing going on with the old one, just refinements I'm sure. My wife has a '19 600, and my son has a '14 600. Motors are basically "unchanged" according to most, but I'm here to tell you, the '19, is 10 times smoother, quiter (engine noise), smoother and feels to have substantially more go! Of course different chassis's as well, but moral of the story being....aengine changes don't ALWAYS mean there was a problem.
 

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At least they're not changing crank designs along with pistons unlike some other OEMs

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Probably nothing going on with the old one, just refinements I'm sure. My wife has a '19 600, and my son has a '14 600. Motors are basically "unchanged" according to most, but I'm here to tell you, the '19, is 10 times smoother, quiter (engine noise), smoother and feels to have substantially more go! Of course different chassis's as well, but moral of the story being....aengine changes don't ALWAYS mean there was a problem.
I believe it was 2016 when the 6000 got many updates, including pistons, ecu mapping, and I believe a couple other things.
 

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My dealer knows the engine guy at cat and he told him the new motor will make a few more ponies than the old motor but not a lot more. He said the changes will address the flaming issue and they got rid of the slot in the pistons and are injecting from the bottom now to lube the wrist pin. The motor will be a little stronger, cleaner burning and efficient. He said they had a reed and pipe combo that added a significant jump in HP but it got axed by Cat Brass. The good news is hopefully that will be an easy add on for cheap aftermarket gains.
I'm not sure but I thought that one of the big reasons for providing the slot in the piston was to provide lubrication to the wrist pin and wrist pin bearing. This was assured because oil was mixed with the fuel and the injector was aimed directly at the slot. It was one of the main talking points that AC engineers gave along with, of course, improved fuel economy below 6500 RPM or so when the injector spray was above the piston with the exhaust port fully closed by the piston. I wonder who your dealer was talking to at Arctic Cat?
 

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From what I've been able to discover, the major change is to the head. The other changes are similar to the changes made to the 6000 series in 2016.... mostly for durability. A few extra HP may be a byproduct, but not the reason why the changes. Improved efficiency and durability were the goals. This is not a reflection or because of any major issues with 2018 and 2019 motors.

On a personal side, I had a 2014 6000... and I thought it wasn't much stronger than my 500 SnoPro.... However, the 2017 RS 6000 I had and 2019 6000 LTD I have now are much stronger running than I remember my 2014 ever being. As said above, smoothers, feels stronger, and seems to run more efficiently. I'm hoping to see the same with the 2020 from the 18 and 19 8000s I have. But I'm not expecting much more than 3-4 hp increase stock to stock over the 19.
 

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@Michman 1 --- I was reading that post and thinking the same thing....
I reason for the slot in the piston, since it's design in the 6000s series motors, has been to allow lubrication of the wrist pin when the fuel / oil mixture is injected thru it. So the idea that the slot is being removed baffles me. I have not heard this as of yet....
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If you buy new every year, it sounds like there's a lot to look forward to.

If you just bought new and planned to keep it for several years, you might feel sick. After reading that bookface link, I certainly feel sick about what I just bought.
 

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Let's be realistic here, they claimed 160 hp motor and it dynoed st 152hp. So this 165 class motor hopefully will hit the 160hp class cert.

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If you buy new every year, it sounds like there's a lot to look forward to.

If you just bought new and planned to keep it for several years, you might feel sick. After reading that bookface link, I certainly feel sick about what I just bought.
I can see this both ways. I've had an 18 and now a 19 and I am very happy with the current version of the 800 Ctec2. 1800 miles on my 18 last season. Over 1200 and still riding my 19 now. ZERO complaints. But I've also hadn't had the flame throwing issues others have had. But it's still a good running motor from what I've experienced.

And I can see why some may have some apprehension and angst had you just bought a left over or a 2018 or 2019 and are keeping it. But I look at it as no different than the changes in the Zuke 800 between 2009 and 2010 when it went from the non-HO to the HO motor. Pretty similar changes, etc...... Not that the 2007-2009 non-HO was / is a bad motor.... it's just lower on HP.
 
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