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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a question for all that are having troubles with their clutches. How many of you have the TSS clutch tool and spring adjuster or have played with different spring setups. I am one to talk because I have had troubles with my Sno Pro and at one time and was scratching my head and pissed off also with a 98-99 mph F7 . I checked a number of variables and in the end it came out to a multiple of problems. First thing I suggest is to get the TSS clutch tool, billet deflection adjuster and spring adjuster. Play with the secondary spring adjustment on your machine because I have found that between the two 05's I own, a F7 EFI EXT and a F7 Sno Pro carb the spring tensions where way different on both and on my Sno Pro which had the spring tension set way too tight was one that was hitting 98 mph and I was only turning 7,600 rpms on top in loose snow and 7,400 and 7,500 on hard pack. The EXT EFI I own had the spring tension set soft and I was seeing speeds of 106 on hard pack in aprox 1,500 feet with rpms falling into the 7,700 to 7,800 mark on hard pack and 7,900 on loose snow. I do not know what the fuel pressure is on the EXT, but I am willing to bet it is on the leaner side of the factory setup considering that this also is another thing that is affecting these sleds. So my next suggestion is to lean out your sled alittle. My Sno Pro came stock with 470's and in most situations I could feel that they where to much for the motor. I dropped to 460's put in a timing key and immediatly felt a little difference and got my sled into the 102 mph in approx 1,500 feet with just with jet changes and key, no spring adjustments yet. I am going to try 450's this year and plan on possibly going down to 440's in warmer temps. Third suggestion is to free up your primary weights. From the factory my Sno Pro weights were so tight in the clutch that I had to use most of my fingers and alot of force to move them and with loosening them to the point of only needing the slight pull of a finger and using loctite on the nuts I gained another 1 mph on topend in 1,500. I ran out of snow and cold weather before I could test clutch combo's, but so far this is what I know and has been tested tried and true. I have gained 5 mph with jets, key and minor adjustments. I now have the secondary TSS tool, spring adjuster, belt deflector adjustor and a boat load of different primary weights and springs and plan on playing with different spring tensions in the primary and secondary and also have a spare secondary with a Bikeman clutch mod done to it that I plan on running also. I expect good things with the knowledge that I enter with this year and expect my sled to be back in the fast game. Hell, it is a Sno Pro with 170 studs so 102 in 1,500 isn't bad and could accept that, but with what I have planned for this year I hope to see 108-110 in 1,500 and topend speeds of 114 plus. I am willing to bet between the spring adjustments, lighter weights and clutch mod with softer belt I will acheive this. All I have to wait for now is snow, but until then what I have done will get 5 mph and that is better then nothing.
 

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yea that really is the only way to get these sleds running fast. You have to tinker with them. I really havnt messed with my sled much because i do not know alot about them and i am pretty satisfied with my 05 anyways. Ive hit 100 and it still was pulling alittle bit, i just ran out of room. But i do plan on getting a ods clutch kit.
 

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all this has been gone over.. and none has proven to be a true fix for "all" the sleds.. also.. you said the spring was too tight? yet only pulled 7600.. well it needs to be tighter to raise the rpm??

Hopefully the larger secondaires fix most of the problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yep, the spring tension on my Sno Pro was alot tighter then my EXT, to the point where I think it was binding??? I am also saying that the spring tension is not allowing the secondary to shift out all the way. This might not be my rpm problem but I think it has alot to do with the shift out problem. Forgot to mention that I did gain rpm with the loosening of the primary weights though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Also the point to the matter is I have found a difference in setup between two 2005 sleds. You would sure think that every F7 coming off the line would have the same tolerances, but it doesn't seem the way and this is what I feel now is the major problem with the slow sleds.
 

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Originally posted by ArcticF7SnoPro@Oct 8 2005, 10:55 PM
Yep, the spring tension on my Sno Pro was alot tighter then my EXT, to the point where I think it was binding??? I am also saying that the spring tension is not allowing the secondary to shift out all the way. This might not be my rpm problem but I think it has alot to do with the shift out problem. Forgot to mention that I did gain rpm with the loosening of the primary weights though.
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I really don't think any of this has anything to do with mph . The main jet probably did that .Don't know how you could gain rpm ? If the weights were stuck in the primary clutch I would think it would over rev .

There is no solution to be found with the standard 034 belt . I expect the new 06 setup will be probably be the only improvment . Spring tension might squeeze the belt harder on top end but it will never accellerate near as good .
 

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I have noticed that one of my weights was not running center on the bolt. I then move the clutch through the full range of motion. I noticed that that one weigth was catching and stoping the weight from alowing more up shift.

The only other thing I found was the primary seem to control max RPM more on the DDrive than the secondary. Weights and spring in the primary. I could never NEVER spring bind the secondary spring.
 

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At first i was upset because it was slow then it starts to eat 70.00 belts.
 

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my secondary spring adjuster backed itself out all the way against the cover... thus making the spring tension as tight as possible if im not mistaken?

i was overrevving at 8200rpms and the belt was slipping... never blew any belts...

:dunno:
 

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The weights were tight in my F6 also,but dont loosen them to much.i did this thinking it would help but it killed all my acelleration,they need some resistance!I also fooled around with my secoundary spring a bit and never saw any RPM changes from loose to tight.But you can make the sled pull harder once you find the sweet spot!
 

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Originally posted by HOUGH@Oct 9 2005, 10:31 AM
my secondary spring adjuster backed itself out all the way against the cover...  thus making the spring tension as tight as possible if im not mistaken?

i was overrevving at 8200rpms and the belt was slipping...  never blew any belts...

:dunno:
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Backed out make the spring rate less. I just got lucky with my sled I have a stock 110/260 spring. I went to a 160/260 and WOW.....

The stock helix for the F7 is way way to tight and the 110/280 spring is not doing the trick. I am sure this is why the chnage to the 48/42 helix in the F7 for 06.
 

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Originally posted by FastCatZR900@Oct 9 2005, 10:48 AM
The weights were tight in my F6 also,but dont loosen them to much.i did this thinking it would help but it killed all my acelleration,they need some resistance!I also fooled around with my secoundary spring a bit and never saw any RPM changes from loose to tight.But you can make the sled pull harder once you find the sweet spot!
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i know what you mean by the sweet spot thing! i couldnt believe how hard it pulled after messin with it... :Wow1:


:fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy:
 

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Originally posted by ArcticF7SnoPro@Oct 8 2005, 10:32 PM
I have a question for all that are having troubles with their clutches. How many of you have the TSS clutch tool and spring adjuster or have played with different spring setups. I am one to talk because I have had troubles with my Sno Pro and at one time and was scratching my head and pissed off also with a 98-99 mph F7 . I checked a number of variables and in the end it came out to a multiple of problems. First thing I suggest is to get the TSS clutch tool, billet deflection adjuster and spring adjuster. Play with the secondary spring adjustment on your machine because I have found that between the two 05's I own, a F7 EFI EXT and a F7 Sno Pro carb the spring tensions where way different on both and on my Sno Pro which had the spring tension set way too tight was one that was hitting 98 mph and I was only turning 7,600 rpms on top in loose snow and 7,400 and 7,500 on hard pack. The EXT EFI I own had the spring tension set soft and I was seeing speeds of 106 on hard pack in aprox 1,500 feet with rpms falling into the 7,700 to 7,800 mark on hard pack and 7,900 on loose snow. I do not know what the fuel pressure is on the EXT, but I am willing to bet it is on the leaner side of the factory setup considering that this also is another thing that is affecting these sleds. So my next suggestion is to lean out your sled alittle. My Sno Pro came stock with 470's and in most situations I could feel that they where to much for the motor. I dropped to 460's put in a timing key and immediatly felt a little difference and got my sled into the 102 mph in approx 1,500 feet with just with jet changes and key, no spring adjustments yet. I am going to try 450's this year and plan on possibly going down to 440's in warmer temps. Third suggestion is to free up your primary weights. From the factory my Sno Pro weights were so tight in the clutch that I had to use most of my fingers and alot of force to move them and with loosening them to the point of only needing the slight pull of a finger and using loctite on the nuts I gained another 1 mph on topend in 1,500. I ran out of snow and cold weather before I could test clutch combo's, but so far this is what I know and has been tested tried and true. I have gained 5 mph with jets, key and minor adjustments. I now have the secondary TSS tool, spring adjuster, belt deflector adjustor and a boat load of different primary weights and springs and plan on playing with different spring tensions in the primary and secondary and also have a spare secondary with a Bikeman clutch mod done to it that I plan on running also. I expect good things with the knowledge that I enter with this year and expect my sled to be back in the fast game. Hell, it is a Sno Pro with 170 studs so 102 in 1,500 isn't bad and could accept that, but with what I have planned for this year I hope to see 108-110 in 1,500 and topend speeds of 114 plus. I am willing to bet between the spring adjustments, lighter weights and clutch mod with softer belt I will acheive this. All I have to wait for now is snow, but until then what I have done will get 5 mph and that is better then nothing.
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[/quote]
:cn: were are the solutions :dunno:
 

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Originally posted by ArcticF7SnoPro@Oct 8 2005, 10:32 PM
  I am one to talk because I have had troubles with my Sno Pro and at one time and was scratching my head and pissed off also with a 98-99 mph F7 

and on my Sno Pro which had the spring tension set way too tight was one that was hitting 98 mph and I was only turning 7,600 rpms on top in loose snow and 7,400 and 7,500 on hard pack. The EXT EFI I own had the spring tension set soft and I was seeing speeds of 106 on hard pack in aprox 1,500 feet with rpms falling into the 7,700 to 7,800 mark on hard pack and 7,900 on loose snow.

I do not know what the fuel pressure is on the EXT, but I am willing to bet it is on the leaner side of the factory setup considering that this also is another thing that is affecting these sleds. 

Third suggestion is to free up your primary weights. From the factory my Sno Pro weights were so tight in the clutch that I had to use most of my fingers and alot of force to move them and with loosening them to the point of only needing the slight pull of a finger and using loctite on the nuts I gained another 1 mph on topend in 1,500.
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Oh boy here we go again, the tried and true.......experts....Half of your statements are contradictory to what clutches actualy do, I suggest doing alot of research on this site to get a little more info on how they work. Also if you calculate the actual centrifugal forces on your weights you'll find your fingers couldn't even pic the weight up if they truely weighed what the centrifugal forces make the clutch think they weigh. Think about it those weights actually crush springs that have rates in the 160-330 pound class. HOW MUCH YOU BENCHING WITH YOUR FINGERS......eh

Originally posted by DonoBBD@Oct 9 2005, 07:34 AM
  I could never NEVER spring bind the secondary spring.
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TRUE DAT..........

Originally posted by HOUGH@Oct 9 2005, 10:31 AM
my secondary spring adjuster backed itself out all the way against the cover...  thus making the spring tension as tight as possible if im not mistaken?

i was overrevving at 8200rpms and the belt was slipping...  never blew any belts...

:dunno:
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=917731
[/quote]
This is exactly what I'm talking about,,, anyone know what would happen to your rpms if it was set up for a 160 guy perfectly and then a 230 guy rode it.
 

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The weights were tight in my F6 also,but dont loosen them to much.i did this thinking it would help but it killed all my acelleration,they need some resistance!I also fooled around with my secoundary spring a bit and never saw any RPM changes from loose to tight.But you can make the sled pull harder once you find the sweet spot![/b]

So if i mess with my secondary spring alittle bit it wont effect my rpms. Because my sled revving almost perfect at wot. Right around 7600-7800. So i dont wanna screw with that. I just wanna make it pull alittle harder.
(P.S. I dont know alot about tuning sleds so this will all be a first for me, any tips?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The solutions I say are timing, jetting, and weights. What my sled does vs what the outcome of perfomance is another thing. I personally think that my exhaust valves might be my rpm problem and this is what my sled is doing and I think it is under powered to pull the clutching because of it being to rich and exhaust valve timing being incorrect. These things in conjunction with the occuring problems that are common with the DD are throwing a wrench into my sled and I believe it is to others also.I never disagreed with anything as far as spring tension doing what it does in the secondary. I am telling you how my sled is acting and the things I have done to gain speed without a 2006 clutch upgrade.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Also let me ask this. In the situation that I am getting no belt slippage and my primary weights are tight I would think this would fool the primary into thinking it is pulling a heavier weight? This is what I am judging the rpm gain on loosening the weights in the primary. Secondly I have only noticed belt slippage after a long shot across the lake so in my 1,500 foot run I did not atleast notice any so I would think this would hold true. Is this correct or am I wrong?
 
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