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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I recently bought a used 2002 Edge 700. When I bought this one I knew it has low compression (90) on the clutch side and knew I would be going in to check it out. This week I took that side apart and found a busted top ring, cool. So I put new rings in and put it back together and as soon as it started up it hear a knocking or piston slap, I think?

This is my 1st sled however I've worked on plenty of motorcycle motors, SxS, auto, etc. I'm not a complete n00b but could use some help here. I do not recall the knock prior to the replacement of the rings. I've researched online at a number of potential reasons (VES, broken ring again, piston/cylinder clearance, rod bearings, TPS voltage, lean carb, etc.). What should I look into first?

A quick side question, I'd love a service manual pdf. I cant find one so I'm open to buying a physical book to reference next to the sled. Do you recommend any in particular?

Here is a video of the sound and if you need photos or anything let me know, thanks!

 

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I must admit. I put the rings on and put er back together before checking any of that. I know I made a mistake there. I am pretty certain there was no knock prior though. Would there possibly become a knock due to new rings only without change to the clearance?

The psi was 118 after the new rings. I understand they also are not seated or broken in yet however.

If I have to tear it back down I will. I was hoping it was something else.
 

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NEW RINGS TIGHTEN THE PISTON IN THE BORE AND CAUSE IT TO ROCK BACK AND FORTH.CHECK THE BORE DIAMETER,YOU MIGHT GET AWAY WITH A NEW PISTON IF THE SKIRT IS BIGGER. BUT BORING TO SIZE IS BEST.
 

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Better question to ask is how many mile on the engine before taking it apart. Piston skirts get kicked in on higher mileage engines. That causes the piston to rock in the cylinder bore.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
a side update of the many potential possibilities i read about before posting.... the TPS at 4.25 WOT, will adjust to 4.00 at some point when i find the slotted torx bit. not that this would have changed when i put new rings in anyhow, only checked it to eliminate variables. do you like my home made TPS checker? i was impatient and didnt want to wait for a 5v regulator to do the 9v battery trick, so i stole stuff from my kids and maybe didnt have very strong resistors in their little toy kit.... :)

2110575

2110576
 

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Discussion Starter #13
a side update of the many potential possibilities i read about before posting.... the TPS at 4.25 WOT, will adjust to 4.00 at some point when i find the slotted torx bit. not that this would have changed when i put new rings in anyhow, only checked it to eliminate variables. do you like my home made TPS checker? i was impatient and didnt want to wait for a 5v regulator to do the 9v battery trick, so i stole stuff from my kids and maybe didnt have very strong resistors in their little toy kit.... :)

View attachment 2110575
View attachment 2110576
TPS adjusted. Seems like knock is a bit quieter but its probably just me "wanting" that. hah.

ok time to watch some VES videos and dig into that next. Will there be some clear indicator if something is causing the noise from VES? Is it even possible for something in the VES to hit the piston or rings? Going to check them out anyhow.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
gonna throw this out there and check the power valves
i think ill do that next. i really dont want to rip it back down but i understand that i may have to.
Took the VES off on the new ringed piston side. Nothing really stood out to me but its the first time ive looked at one too. There was heavy carbon build up that was difficult to remove with just a scotch brite pad. The upper bolt housing the plastic outer cap busted off on me so I'll have to get that out and fixed before reassembly.I noticed that removing the inner nut was very easy when in vidoes i watched first it was stated to be pressed or very hard (those may have been slightly newer sleds). This makes me wonder if it should have been that easy.

Aside from the above I didn't really see any evidence of damage or hitting from the piston or anything. I could take pics if desired.

PS - Yes I'm aware of the suggestion to tear it back down and check clearances. I just am trying other things first because I'm still bitter, hehe.
 

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last time i heard that noise is when i had a valve in improperly on a 2002 700xc. FWIW don't drink with your buddy while repairing his top end. I don't recall what i did wrong, but i do know it was a valve that was hitting the ring
 

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Discussion Starter #17
last time i heard that noise is when i had a valve in improperly on a 2002 700xc. FWIW don't drink with your buddy while repairing his top end. I don't recall what i did wrong, but i do know it was a valve that was hitting the ring
When I took the valve out the indentation side with stamped numbers was "up" along with the most of the carbon deposit. I did the thing "testing putting it the other way" just to see if it would go in and it wouldnt go in all the way so this makes me think maybe it can only go in correct side up? Does anyone know if that is accurate information or can they confirm the stamped numbers are supposed to be "up"?

I have it back in now but need to hit the hardware store tomorrow for a bolt because mine busted off. At least it was the short bolt that doesnt go into the cylinder block.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The following link was an interesting read.. I couldn't see any valve wear or damage that would quickly indicate any sort of piston/ring contact. It makes me wonder if the top ring was busted in half due to the VES and valve and cylinder wall wear to begin with. I'm debating trying one of the suggestions:

1. multiple gaskets (e.g. 3)
2. a washer like shim under the little plate which is under the bellows
3. removing some metal from the "shoulders" of the valve. (i'm guessing the shoulders are what hit the dogs on the VES base?)

I suppose a good quick test would be to slap on the 2 extra gaskets i have and see if the knocking stops if the knocking continues tomorrow post VES cleansing. If that fixes it, right on.

 

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any way u look at it ,sounds mechanical to me, pull both plugs rotate engine by hand see if u feel the engine for a slight drag make mark on clutch and drag point, rotate in revs direction , if problem follows its inside better not run it anymore
 
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