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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys.

Sorry, I need to tell a long story, just so those who know what they’re doing electrical wise (Blaine jumps to mind) can use all info. for process of elimination.

This sled has always had electrical problems since day one. I bought it in 2015 with (I believe) a true 1,200 miles on it. Someone bashed the thing hard enough that the frame got twisted and put the clutches horribly out of alignment, so it was prolly blowing belts every 75 to 100 miles.

Sequence of events:


2015 – I ripped the thing apart down to bare chassis and straightened it as best I could, had to shim the motor mounts a touch, but clutches are now in laser perfect alignment. After completely putting the thing back together, moment of truth, gonna start it again for the 1st time. Cranking + no spark!!!???. Checked + Ohmed everything in site, came down to a #&[email protected]#!!! bad stator. Replaced the stator, all well ‘till 2019 … Except:

2019:
1. I noticed a couple of times during the season it wouldn’t fire when cranking (good battery, cranking fast)
2. Give another twist of the key, fires up great … Odd …
3. And once, I come in after a day’s ride, turn the key switch to off – Sled keeps running!!??
4. Turn key back to run + off again, then it shuts off … Odd again

Early March 2019 – Fire it up, serious lack of power – Running on 2 cylinders. Panic order new twin ignition coil which died. Not an original AC coil, I bought an “SPI” coil. Sled ran good ‘till end of season and first few rides of 2019 / 20.

2020 – Early February:
1. February 8, go out for a ride w/ my nephew (he’s riding this sled I’m on my 2000 P1000) – We get about 3 miles from the house , he starts waving at me, sled is down on power, he can’t keep up.
2. I try it and sure enough, it’ll hit maybe 45 MPH and starts sputtering / missing etc. Double ride for the rest of the day on my 2000 Pantera 1000.
3. I Ohm out the ignition coils (primary only) – I measured (I forget exactly) 0.8 ohms I think – On all 3 coils. Cat manual says it should be .29 to .39 Ohms …
4. I check my 2000 Pantera 1000 (which runs perfect) and all 3 of those are the same as the ’01 – 0.8 Ohms if I remember correctly – So what’s with the cat manual??!!
5. Panic time, prime part of the season, in desperation call the closest dealer + tell him get his ass here + pick up the sled and try and get it ready for me for the next weekend
6. The guy (who supposedly has been working on sleds for 40 years) experiences the problem, agrees it has no power etc. But he starts questioning the damn carburetion (Especially the Tempa flow I have installed ‘cuz he has no idea what it is).
7. I tell him “It has nothing to do with fuel!!!” but he goes ahead anyways and pulls the carbs, checks the floats, jetting all this shit, total waste of time and for which he charges me …
8. I suspect the TPS (Throttle position sensor on the carbs) and tell him to test it. He claims to have tested it and that it was good (I have my doubts that he knows how to do this).
9. Feb. 14 - Regardless of all the above, he puts everything back together and the thing starts running right – He calls me and he’s freaking at the power (Oddly, he rides a 2009 Turbo) and how fast it is LOL!

2020 – Mid February:
1. Feb. 15 to 16, got a good bunch of riding in w/ my nephew and me riding it, kicks total ass as usual, no problems
2. Feb. 17, riding the 2001 by myself, beautiful day, running fantastic … Until about 75 miles into my ride (175 miles total since it started behaving right with the dealer) – Hesitates and misses, pretty mildly though …
3. This gets progressively worse and worse – I’ve got two hands on the right bar, left hand pushing hard on the TSS (throttle safety switch) ‘cuz I suspect that now, having disconnected it on the 2000 I also have.
4. It keeps cutting out and getting worse as I go. It dies a few times and sometimes it cranks really fast and nothing, then it catches – I suspect the damn keyswitch!!
5. I get, literally to within one mile from my house, busy 2 lane road at rush hour, skis on the pavement, track on the trail, it refuses to start!!
6. Pay $75.00 cash, massive-ass flatbed tow truck (40 foot long 3 axle rig LOL!)

2020 – Late February:
1. Feb. 18 – Test 12V accessory jack with key turned to “Run” – No voltage! Rush order keyswitch
2. Feb. 20 – Have old switch out, testing contacts – Definitely not disconnecting ignition from ground in “Run” position! I love an obvious problem! But I know better – This always happens to me – You find an obvious problem, but something else is f’ed up at the same time – Read on …
3. Still Feb. 20 – New switch installed, sled starts + idles, but died twice?? …Seems to be idling too low – Dealer screwed with stuff, so I crank the idle up. Re-start and it idles + and revs great – I’m tired, no time for a test ride.


2020 – Feb. 22:
1. Wanna call the nephew, but think better, so take the sled out for a test ride – Ran great for 15 miles
2. Call the nephew, we leave, I’m riding it (the 2001) it barely makes it around the corner, cutting out really bad!!!???
3. Take sled back to the house, popping + missing the whole way
4. Rip the handlebar pad off, disconnect the TSS
5. Crank a few times, no goddam spark!!
6. Crank some more, freakin starter gear jams stuck into ring gear – Give up for the season

2020 – Apr. 12 (Today):
1. Should have just tried pulling the starter handle to check for spark but didn’t:
2. Removed airbox, carbs + entire exhaust to get to 4 pin rubber connector from stator (after watching Blaine’s vid -
). This removes any possibility of having the ignition grounded by any of the switches (Kill, TSS or keyswitch).
3. Yank recoil, all plugs sparking
4. Just in case, connect TPS on carb rack into circuit – all plugs sparking
5. Re-connect 4 pin stator connector – all plugs sparking
6. Re-connect TSS (Throttle safety switch) – all plugs sparking

So, it seems all OK now (I can’t start it due to empty gas tank + clutch removed to take starter motor / gear set apart) and I have no idea what’s been causing the problem …

Thanks for the patience and reading all this! Any ideas / What should I do next?

Rod
 

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Probably already checked, but are all the original ground wires still intact and have a good connection? Double check resistance levels from coil grounds/stator/engine?



Checked the stator resistance values? (blaine has another video on that, easy to check)


Last resort, swap CDI's with the 2000 to see if anything changes?


Those intermittent problems will drive you nuts! Not sled related, but on my truck it one time developed an issue where the engine would stutter when you hit the high beams, but not every time, only after using low beams for a few minutes. :blink: Ended up being a bad chassis ground causing a voltage spike that was tripping up the ECU...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey Toocheap!

I had no idea you were on here! Love your Youtube stuff LOL!

I haven't done most of the stuff you're suggesting, but I'll try to get to it soon.

The one thing about the grounds - To kill the ignition, it needs to be run to ground, so I thought bad grounds might not let you turn it off ... Except, maybe the brown ground wire for the CD box itself - Would un-grounding that box kill the ignition or disable the CD "brainbox"? It would explain a lot so that's what I'm hoping it is ...

To Wildmann:

The stator is a Cat OEM, but it was used, from Al's sled salvage.

Thanks for the replies!

Rod
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Doodz!

Look what I found! (See pics).

Jumper wire between the ignition coils had a melted / burnt connector on the aftermarket (SPI brand) twin coil!! Looking close at it, the connector and the spade terminal on the coil itself also looked a bit rusty!??

Note that this wasn’t the case when I ohmed out the coils in early February when this first started happening – Terminal and connector were all normal looking. After that the problem “fixed itself” for 175 miles, all being OK, sled running great.

Then, when I tested it just before I started this post (Apr. 12th) all plugs were firing (Just pulling recoil by hand) …

I ohmed the coil again (just now) and I’m getting identical readings as stated at the beginning of this post, so the coil’s not toast. I also tested the jumper wire with toasty terminal and it seems to conduct fine (of course I’ll replace it).

But back to my question above – Reading on all 3 coils on this sled, (as well as all 3 coils on my 2001 Pantera which has always run perfectly) is 0.8 Ohms and the stupid Cat manual says it should be 0.29 to 0.39 ohms!!?? This is on the primary …

I checked Ohms on the secondaries and get 7,500 ohms (Per manual this is in spec as it states 6320-9480 ohms).

Great to hear some thoughts on the above …

One other thing that I’m kinda worried about – I removed the CD box / coil assembly and tested the ground wires and:
1. The single BROWN wire that comes out of the CD box and runs straight to ground on the case near the recoil with a ring terminal, shows perfect conductivity / continuity to the brown / white wire that is in the 3 pin connector that goes to both, the kill switch and dreaded TSS (throttle safety switch). This 3 pin connector also runs straight into the CD box …
2. The same single BROWN wire with ring terminal DOES NOT show continuity to the BROWN wire in the 2 pin connector for the trigger / pickup coil. Again, to be clear, this 2 pin connector also runs straight into the CD box.

Does point #2 above indicate a problem?

I’m worried because the “Wire Color Code and Function Description” chart in every single Cat service manual states BROWN is “Electrical Common; Chassis Ground”.

Thanks guys!

Rod
 

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WOW! Thanks for sharing with pics! Not sure on Pt. #2.
 
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