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2014 XF800 137
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2014 XF800 137
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Ok, whatever they say! This one was on a '19 tuned Sidewinder. 280HP tune. If it's so strong, how come it snapped off?!
I'm gonna stick with factory steel one.
The one in the pic is advertised to be 20% stronger than stock, math isn't there to why a person would use the lightweight version on a 280 hp tune.
 

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2020 ThunderCat, 2017 ZR 6000 Roger Skime
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the bushings can wear and cause an issue with engagement of the reverse splines.
you can either replace it with a new top gear, which if you do, be sure to get the updated one with an oiling hole.
if you already have the updated one, you can just replace the bushing.
What year did the updated bushing get put in place for 19 or 20?
 

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still havent seen a single one with it happening.:dunno:
a few bad bearings, which i do replace with a tighter fit NTN bearing and loctite, but those were legitimately failed bearings with bad or locked up rollers.
Hey Tommcat, what is the part number for that tighter fitting NTN bearing? Thanks
 

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So after rereading this thread, I read that the reddish brown color around the brake rotor area is from the shaft spinning? Or is this just brake dust?

Does anyone know it jackshafts are still back ordered?
 

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Discussion Starter #173
Based on the ones I've repaired, reddish-brown could be dust from wear of rotor splines on the track shaft splines. Brake dust could also look a little reddish but usually gray.
Gonna have to pull it apart to really know.
I wasn't aware jack shafts were back-ordered. The track shafts were on national back-order for both Cat and Yamaha although I heard in Canada some guys were able to get one at Yamaha. I just checked a big local Cat dealer and they still show back-ordered.
Last time I had my dealer check there were over 300 on back-order nationwide.
 

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Based on the ones I've repaired, reddish-brown could be dust from wear of rotor splines on the track shaft splines. Brake dust could also look a little reddish but usually gray.
Gonna have to pull it apart to really know.
I wasn't aware jack shafts were back-ordered. The track shafts were on national back-order for both Cat and Yamaha although I heard in Canada some guys were able to get one at Yamaha. I just checked a big local Cat dealer and they still show back-ordered.
Last time I had my dealer check there were over 300 on back-order nationwide.
Me bad, I meant drive/track shaft not jackshaft.
 

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Discussion Starter #176
The bearing for the track shaft is an industry standard 6009-2RS. Ball bearings are made to AFBMA (Anti-Friction Bearing Manufacturers Association) and ABEC (Annular Bearing Engineering Committee) standards. A 6009 bearing no matter who makes it has a 45mm ID, 75mm OD, and a 16mm width. The tolerances are very tight. For example the ID size is 45 mm = 1.77165". The tolerance (for an ABEC 3 bearing) is +.0000 - .00045. So max ID would be 1.77165" and minimum could be 1.7712". The actual size would likely be somewhere in between the minimum and maximum.
This issue with the track shaft spinning inside the bearing is really a design and/or manufacturing problem. The fit between the bearing and the shaft was never designed to be an interference fit (meaning the shaft is a tiny bit bigger than the ID of the bearing). It was designed as a slip fit (the shaft is smaller than the ID of the bearing). On top of that, from both dozens of reports from guys who bought new shafts and from my own experience repairing them, the size of the journal on the shaft varies quite a bit. So, some shafts might be only .0015" to .002" smaller than the ID of the bearing. But some have reported shafts that are as much as .003" to even .006" smaller than the bearing - really sloppy loose fit with brand new parts! The shaft will spin in the bearing easily and eventually wear down the journal and destroy the shaft and bearing. Guys who tool apart worn ones said sometimes there was .015 to .020" difference between the two parts!! Worn bad. So no standard manufactured 6009 bearing is going to fix this problem. The shaft is made too small by design and poor manufacturing quality. This is where the BOP wedge part comes into play. It expands the hollow track shaft right underneath the bearing journal so it is tight on the ID of the bearing. So far, everyone who has installed the BOP part on NEW shafts with NEW bearings say it completely stops the shaft from spinning inside the bearing. Problem solved.
Lots of guys have tried other solutions such as peening the shaft, loctiting the bearing, installing a set screw through wall of the shaft, etc and I haven't heard of anyone saying it worked including guys with tons of racing experience (very knowledgeable pros).
The only other solution (the one I did after my shaft got worn down due to spinning in bearing) is to have it spray welded and then ground back down to a journal size that provides interference to the bearing. Problem permanently solved. The drawback to this fix is you need special assembly tools because now the bearing has to be pressed onto the shaft instead of just being a slip fit. The sled was not made to be assembled this way.
The best (highest quality) ball bearings come from Japan and Germany. Manufacturers like NSK, Nachi, Koyo, NTN, SKF, FAG to name some. It has been found that bearings made in China, India, Malaysia can be poor quality meaning they have not necessarily been manufactured with adherence to the AFBMA and ABEC standards. That means they might have dimensions that are not what they should be. Most of the bearings I've seen personally on the brake side are Peer which is a bearing made in China. It's possible some of those have IDs that are not at the right size. Same for OD and width. They still pass as 45mm ID x 75mm OD x 16mm width.
Bottom line is if you get a high-quality ball bearing (as mentioned above) it will have the correct tolerances. That does not mean the ID might be small enough to provide interference fit with the shafts as they are made today. The ID will always be between 1.77165" and 1.7712". You can't find an industry standard 6009 bearing that has an ID small enough to interference fit a shaft that is 1.770 or 1.771" like most of them are.
The best you can hope for is the new shaft you ordered MIGHT be a little on the bigger side and a new 6009 bearing is on the lower side but you still will NOT have an interference fit. The only way around this would be for someone to order (and they'd probably have to buy at least several thousand bearings) and special 6009 bearing with a smaller ID. They would be very expensive.
Get the BOP wedge and install it on new parts (about 40 ft.lb torque) and all will be good.
 

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The bearing for the track shaft is an industry standard 6009-2RS. Ball bearings are made to AFBMA (Anti-Friction Bearing Manufacturers Association) and ABEC (Annular Bearing Engineering Committee) standards. A 6009 bearing no matter who makes it has a 45mm ID, 75mm OD, and a 16mm width. The tolerances are very tight. For example the ID size is 45 mm = 1.77165". The tolerance (for an ABEC 3 bearing) is +.0000 - .00045. So max ID would be 1.77165" and minimum could be 1.7712". The actual size would likely be somewhere in between the minimum and maximum.
This issue with the track shaft spinning inside the bearing is really a design and/or manufacturing problem. The fit between the bearing and the shaft was never designed to be an interference fit (meaning the shaft is a tiny bit bigger than the ID of the bearing). It was designed as a slip fit (the shaft is smaller than the ID of the bearing). On top of that, from both dozens of reports from guys who bought new shafts and from my own experience repairing them, the size of the journal on the shaft varies quite a bit. So, some shafts might be only .0015" to .002" smaller than the ID of the bearing. But some have reported shafts that are as much as .003" to even .006" smaller than the bearing - really sloppy loose fit with brand new parts! The shaft will spin in the bearing easily and eventually wear down the journal and destroy the shaft and bearing. Guys who tool apart worn ones said sometimes there was .015 to .020" difference between the two parts!! Worn bad. So no standard manufactured 6009 bearing is going to fix this problem. The shaft is made too small by design and poor manufacturing quality. This is where the BOP wedge part comes into play. It expands the hollow track shaft right underneath the bearing journal so it is tight on the ID of the bearing. So far, everyone who has installed the BOP part on NEW shafts with NEW bearings say it completely stops the shaft from spinning inside the bearing. Problem solved.
Lots of guys have tried other solutions such as peening the shaft, loctiting the bearing, installing a set screw through wall of the shaft, etc and I haven't heard of anyone saying it worked including guys with tons of racing experience (very knowledgeable pros).
The only other solution (the one I did after my shaft got worn down due to spinning in bearing) is to have it spray welded and then ground back down to a journal size that provides interference to the bearing. Problem permanently solved. The drawback to this fix is you need special assembly tools because now the bearing has to be pressed onto the shaft instead of just being a slip fit. The sled was not made to be assembled this way.
The best (highest quality) ball bearings come from Japan and Germany. Manufacturers like NSK, Nachi, Koyo, NTN, SKF, FAG to name some. It has been found that bearings made in China, India, Malaysia can be poor quality meaning they have not necessarily been manufactured with adherence to the AFBMA and ABEC standards. That means they might have dimensions that are not what they should be. Most of the bearings I've seen personally on the brake side are Peer which is a bearing made in China. It's possible some of those have IDs that are not at the right size. Same for OD and width. They still pass as 45mm ID x 75mm OD x 16mm width.
Bottom line is if you get a high-quality ball bearing (as mentioned above) it will have the correct tolerances. That does not mean the ID might be small enough to provide interference fit with the shafts as they are made today. The ID will always be between 1.77165" and 1.7712". You can't find an industry standard 6009 bearing that has an ID small enough to interference fit a shaft that is 1.770 or 1.771" like most of them are.
The best you can hope for is the new shaft you ordered MIGHT be a little on the bigger side and a new 6009 bearing is on the lower side but you still will NOT have an interference fit. The only way around this would be for someone to order (and they'd probably have to buy at least several thousand bearings) and special 6009 bearing with a smaller ID. They would be very expensive.
Get the BOP wedge and install it on new parts (about 40 ft.lb torque) and all will be good.
good read. TY for the explanation Flash
 

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Premium Member
2014 XF800 137
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4,098 Posts
So after rereading this thread, I read that the reddish brown color around the brake rotor area is from the shaft spinning? Or is this just brake dust?

Does anyone know it jackshafts are still back ordered?
Brake dust was my issue, so I installed ceramic brake pads. Bearing and shaft were still good, replaced bearing since I had it apart.
 

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