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Discussion Starter #181
Just for clarification, a C3 (loose fit) bearing will measure the same ID , OD, and width as a standard bearing. No difference. The difference is only internal inside bearing. C3 bearings will have slightly larger diameter ball grooves, either in the external ring or the internal ring, such that there is more clearance between the inner ring and outer ring, thereby allowing more room for the balls which makes the bearing "looser." We are talking in the 4th decimal place and beyond.
C3 bearings are typically used in applications where the bearing will be pressed onto something. When the bearing is pressed onto (into) a shaft or case, technically it "stretches" either the ID or OD a tiny bit (depending on how much press there is) thereby using up some of the internal clearance of the bearing. So, if the bearing didn't have a C3 fit, there could be a situation where all the space between the two raceways and the balls gets used up and the bearing is now radially preloaded. This will cause binding, allot of heat, and failure in short order. In a C3 bearing, with the additional internal clearance it has, the bearing can be pressed on to a shaft or into a case (when pressed into a case, the OD ring of the bearing is compressed and that closes up a tiny bit of the internal clearance of the bearing) and still have clearance left over so it doesn't bind up or get preloaded.
Ball bearings are mass produced on very very accurate equipment. The machining of the rings is all "automatic" on CNC machines, the balls are produced separately on very very accurate machines. When it comes time to assemble them, very accurate measuring equipment individually measures each ring and then selects the right size ball to use so the bearing ends up with the right internal clearance. For a C3 bearing, the machines are simply told (by human programming) what size parts to select such that the end result is a bearing with C3 (more) internal clearance. Those bearings are purposely sold as C3 fit and are advertised as such. ID & OD & width are exactly same as standard bearing.
 

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Just for clarification, a C3 (loose fit) bearing will measure the same ID , OD, and width as a standard bearing. No difference. The difference is only internal inside bearing. C3 bearings will have slightly larger diameter ball grooves, either in the external ring or the internal ring, such that there is more clearance between the inner ring and outer ring, thereby allowing more room for the balls which makes the bearing "looser." We are talking in the 4th decimal place and beyond.
C3 bearings are typically used in applications where the bearing will be pressed onto something. When the bearing is pressed onto (into) a shaft or case, technically it "stretches" either the ID or OD a tiny bit (depending on how much press there is) thereby using up some of the internal clearance of the bearing. So, if the bearing didn't have a C3 fit, there could be a situation where all the space between the two raceways and the balls gets used up and the bearing is now radially preloaded. This will cause binding, allot of heat, and failure in short order. In a C3 bearing, with the additional internal clearance it has, the bearing can be pressed on to a shaft or into a case (when pressed into a case, the OD ring of the bearing is compressed and that closes up a tiny bit of the internal clearance of the bearing) and still have clearance left over so it doesn't bind up or get preloaded.
Ball bearings are mass produced on very very accurate equipment. The machining of the rings is all "automatic" on CNC machines, the balls are produced separately on very very accurate machines. When it comes time to assemble them, very accurate measuring equipment individually measures each ring and then selects the right size ball to use so the bearing ends up with the right internal clearance. For a C3 bearing, the machines are simply told (by human programming) what size parts to select such that the end result is a bearing with C3 (more) internal clearance. Those bearings are purposely sold as C3 fit and are advertised as such. ID & OD & width are exactly same as standard bearing.
So does this mean if you are going to use the BOP device or build up your shaft for tighter fit you should actually not use the c3 bearing and should use the 6009LLU ?
 

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Discussion Starter #185
If you're going to use the BOP device, any 6009 bearing with 2 seals will be fine. If you're going to build up the shaft and press bearing on, must use C3 fit. Remember if you press bearing on, you will effectively be stretching the ID a little bit which uses up some of the internal clearance. OD size does not change when you press bearing on ID. Pressing just makes the OD ring and ID ring get a tiny bit closer to each other = a little less room for the balls.
 

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I checked mine and all is like new so I really like the idea of the BOP insert so I may just buy it for security and piece of mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #187
Good idea. Many many guys with brand new Winders and ZR9000 do it for peace of mind. It's cheap insurance vs. the hassle of replacing the track shaft, bearings and seals. Especially since track shafts are on national back order. With BOP device, you should be able to run almost indefinite number of miles trouble free, as long as you re-grease the brake-side bearing every year.
 

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Good idea. Many many guys with brand new Winders and ZR9000 do it for peace of mind. It's cheap insurance vs. the hassle of replacing the track shaft, bearings and seals. Especially since track shafts are on national back order. With BOP device, you should be able to run almost indefinite number of miles trouble free, as long as you re-grease the brake-side bearing every year.
Grease it with a needle tip?
 

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Good idea. Many many guys with brand new Winders and ZR9000 do it for peace of mind. It's cheap insurance vs. the hassle of replacing the track shaft, bearings and seals. Especially since track shafts are on national back order. With BOP device, you should be able to run almost indefinite number of miles trouble free, as long as you re-grease the brake-side bearing
Grease it with a needle tip?

Why not just change the bearing if you go that far?
 

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If the shaft isn't spinning in the bearing, shouldn't that bearing be good for thousands of miles without checking or regreasing ?? I am with Jminor1, if I'm going into it to regrease, I might as well just replace it ?? I guess I wasn't aware that bearing was designed to take apart and regrease ??
 

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Discussion Starter #192
Yes, a few thousand miles should be fine. From the sleds I've repaired and many others owners talked about, after a "few thousand" miles, when you pick the outer seal out of the bearing, most of the time there is rust, allot of condensation, and even some liquid water. I know there is a separate seal between this bearing and the tunnel but it still gets moisture in it. I think it's condensation when cooling down an sitting outside all night. Eventually, moisture gets into the bearing.
Technically it's not made to disassemble to clean/re-grease. It's pretty easy though to use a small pick (like a dental pick) to pick the outer seal out and re-grease. Maybe even spray it out with brake cleaner, blow it dry, then either re-grease it or put a new one in. You'll probably have to remove the outer snap ring in order to get the seal out. Use the pick at the outer diameter of the seal not near the inner diameter. That way if there's a little damage to the seal edge, it won't really hurt anything since the seal is stationery with respect to the OD of the bearing. Of course the bearing ID is spinning with respect to the ID so you don't want any damage to seal edge there.
 

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and just my 3 cents worth on the whole bushing pandemic. it really wasnt an issue until yamaha insisted on their "improved" manual chain tensioner.
the auto tensioner actually worked pretty well, didnt over tension the chain causing wear, and the slider shoe slid, like it was supposed to, in my experience.
i still run the auto tensioner in my personal sled, with over 400 hp.
 

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Discussion Starter #196
From reading over on TY, the word is IF the BOP Wedge is installed on new shaft and new bearing, the results have been very positive. I don't recall anyone saying it failed with new parts. On the other hand, there were reports of failures when it was installed into old/worn parts (either bearing or shaft or both). I guess that means when there more clearance between the shaft and the bearing (than there would be with both being new), and you have to expand the shaft allot to get the wedge to lock, it sometimes doesn't hold. I've heard of guys wanting to fix their sled (shaft has already been spinning in bearing) with the wedge but if there's too much clearance, it might hold for a bit but not long term. Best solution is new shaft, new bearing.
 

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Discussion Starter #199
Can tack weld but allot of guys don't have access to welder in their own garages. Of course then there's the issue of getting it apart when you want to. Again, some guys don't have the tools they'd need to get it apart.
The wedge is easy to install/uninstall, use and re-use over and over.
In this day and age, it's a shame a gizmo like the wedge is even needed in the first place. With right/smart engineering, this problem shouldn't be happening. Remember the days of eccentric-locking bearings and collar-lock type bearings? Just don't understand how AC engineers thought this design would work! New shaft and new bearing still have clearance to each other ranging from .002" all the way to .005" NOT gonna work. Shaft will spin in bearing especially when bearing is cold as cold grease makes the bearing hard to turn at first so shaft spins inside bearing.
 

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Can you just put a tack weld on inner race to shaft?
My dealer (Franks BMW /Yamaha)has a program in place that takes your worn shaft and replaces it with the shaft pictured below ,and notches a UPGRADED, bearing to accept the pin ,and updating my chain case with known issues at the same time 👍phone 802-878-3930 service manager Kamran Pelkey 👋🙋‍♂️🎉
 

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