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shoot out numbers for 800's

9K views 43 replies 28 participants last post by  nanner 
#1 ·
1000 feet track, hard pack dirt

doo 9.93
cat 9.99
poo 10.12

poo top mph at 89.9
 
#6 ·
Yup, I know guys that get so wound about about this race like its the Gospel!! I just roll my eyes. Those same guys get wound up about dyno numbers too.

But Hey, after the shootout and all the dyno numbers are in though, we never have to race!! Don't need to, we have dyno sheets and times!! :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:????
 
#11 ·
People still care about this crap? Fastest sled and Top speed died for me when I got into the longer track sleds. Clearly some people need a lesson in physics if they think crossover sleds will be as fast as old days short sleds.

May next they will race them on the open water right out of the crate. compare them to a jetski:thumbsup:
 
#13 ·
The 600 just didn't want to perform but it makes good power. The 800 was ok. It's hard to get pipe temp and keep engine heat soak and water temps down in these conditions. Soapy water was used on Hyfax of all sleds but it's still a long haul in the dirt. Not to mention between runs the sleds barley had any time to cool down. Same for everybody just saying these are some of the other factors that are delt with.
 
#14 ·
As far as long tracks being slower up top, we have proved that false on numerous occasions. The closest comparo we did was a 600 shift shorty with a 1" lug, 2 studs per row and my wife's 600 switch 144 with 1.25 lug and also 2 studs per row. My father and myself who are less than 5 lbs apart. Sleds were identical top speed. Held both wide open down the lake for probably 2 miles, and were ski toe to ski toe. No one was more surprised than me. Ride height on the newer sleds is most of what's killing top speed IMO.
 
#15 ·
The Sept issue of Snowtech had an article regarding why Yamaha uses the 1.25" Ripsaw II track. 121" version in the Nytro. How's 5.5 sled lengths over the Cobra 1.325 in 400 meters on hard pack, 4.5 lengths faster on soft snow. Top speed was 7 mph faster. It was also 2 lengths faster than the Ripsaw I in soft snow and 1 mph more top speed. About equal performance on hardpack.

Many factors enter the picture.
Lug design, track plies, durometer, gearing, clutching, jetting, ambient conditions, room in tunnel, number and type of drivers, width, hyfax drag, number of wheels and location, ride height, amount of track touching the ground, attack angle, track alignment, rotating weight, and on and on.

IMO, there is no black and white answer unless all factors are the same. In theory, the least length but otherwise identical track should be faster in ideal conditions.:bc:
 
#16 ·
Does not make much sense anymore, now that (some of) the sleds have a built in break in mode. Why test at all, until that's out of the way, it's kind of like racing and then saying my sled was only going 3/4 throttle, ever race one of those guys? LOL
I wish they would do it later, with broken in sleds on snow or ice...
 
#23 ·
I don't think shootouts change what people ride if they are brand loyal. On any given day
one brand might be faster than the other, big deal!! Dependability, looks, Color and fun factor is what I go by. All 4 brands make a very fast machine, but at the end of the day its
what brand you over all like the best. For me its Polaris!!
 
#25 ·
Worst year was 2012, still existed in 2013 but not as bad, pretty much gone from 2014 onward. They basically relaxed the sensors as the ECM thought there was too much pipe heat and coolant temps. As with most things, it takes Doo about 2 years to fully identify and resolve the issues. 2008 weak front ends fixed by 2010 and constantly being upgraded, 2012 fade, not much since 2014 other than more power for the 15's and 16's :buttrock:
 
#27 ·
DTR just posted the results. They ran the Poo 800 40+ dyno runs to break the rings in and make sure it had more HP than the Cat 800 when it left. The ECU was still in break in for both the Poo & Doo. The new Doo 800 makes great power. Doo keeps tweaking that bitch for more every year - impressive.

As for the slow Poo 600 - it had the most power of all. The Cat and Etech 600 still were still in breakin mode. Must be a chassis thing since it wasn't a HP thing.
 
#33 ·
They had a helluva time with the under hood temps by the time they got the pipe hot they were dealing with a heat soaked motors. So we talked more about the Poo 600 motor it seemed it had the worst case of heat soak over all. So we win two in the snow and lose one in the dirt and sand. :thumbsup:
 
#34 · (Edited)
pipe temp heat or lack of it? I have raced 600 c.f.i. Polaris sleds. this is one reason you don't see anyone running the newer stuff on the grass. pipe temp and throttle position.

if the pipe temp isn't 1000 degrees or more and you go wide open throttle the ecu retards the timing. this = less power ( the fuel burns in the pipe instead of the cylinder) if they were run back to back the et and speed would have been way better.

getting the pipe temp to this is just about impossible on a stand. motor needs to be loaded. like on a water or oil brake dyno or riding it.

the ecu can be fooled by a resister.

the real reason the 600 isn't performing is the clutching. Polaris is spinning these at 8400-8500. no power there. 8100-8200 is where they need to be. a blk. purple driven spring? really. it will never shift out with that spring in it. 85 mph top speed on these. Polaris has been pretty good on clutching but they dropped the ball here.

one driven spring change and the 600 would have spanked every sled there.
 
#35 ·
The facts are that Polaris under clutches all their performance sleds. And, has for years. An over revving 2-stroke is an understressed one. Great for bragging about the big rpm it pulls to everyone who doesn't understand the effect pipe temp has on creating a wider power band if you know how to clutch it to take advantage of that. In most cases, that's all it takes to make it very fast.

Skidoo, on the other hand, seldom underclutches their stuff. Instead, they put lots of protection into their ECUs. This creates a sled that can be very fast, but not for a wide range of conditions.

Cat, is another story altogether. Alsled can explain.:bc:
 
#38 ·
My take on cat, 13.5 -1 comp, tight exhaust and timing made 162 hp a long time ago. Fine if h20 temps stayed low, but deto city when water got warm.

So they loosened up exhaust. took timing away and have settled on a 153 hp sled for years now.

If I was them, Lower comp 12.5 to 1, redesign squish and bowl, add 2-3 degrees timing to 8000 rpm, take 2 degrees away from 8000, to 8250, 4 degrees at 8500 redesign the crappy y pipe, put real reeds in it, slightly tighten exhaust, they would be at 163 to 165 hp. And go to 8400 rpm.

Why cat didn't do this I don't know, they have a pipe temp sensor and det sensor that will save the engine.

Put a team tied on it also, looks like the new secondary has issues already..

I'm a idiot and I figured it out.:bc:

Edit, Basically cat stopped doing any R&D on the old zuk, and living with what they have, doo and poo keep adjusting.

Text Font Document Paper Receipt
 
#40 ·
My take on cat, 13.5 -1 comp, tight exhaust and timing made 162 hp a long time ago. Fine if h20 temps stayed low, but deto city when water got warm.

So they loosened up exhaust. took timing away and have settled on a 153 hp sled for years now.

If I was them, Lower comp 12.5 to 1, redesign squish and bowl, add 2-3 degrees timing to 8000 rpm, take 2 degrees away from 8000, to 8250, 4 degrees at 8500 redesign the crappy y pipe, put real reeds in it, slightly tighten exhaust, they would be at 163 to 165 hp. And go to 8400 rpm.

Why cat didn't do this I don't know, they have a pipe temp sensor and det sensor that will save the engine.

Put a team tied on it also, looks like the new secondary has issues already..

I'm a idiot and I figured it out.:bc:

Edit, Basically cat stopped doing any R&D on the old zuk, and living with what they have, doo and poo keep adjusting.

View attachment 1548617

Not everybody has access to premium fuel. For example most of the small towns surrounding TRF didn't have 91 so if you needed to fill up a cat you were screwed and had to deal with the sled going into limp mode and then it's a real pooch. Poo has a much better setup with eth and non eth mode.
 
#36 ·
It doesn't matter to me. I'm glad they actually took the time to break them in. I think they should let them use ECUs out of the break in period too. The Cat has nothing to prove. It holds all the drag and speed run wins and records. It also is easy to mod. To me out of the box stock means nothing as the factory clutching leaves too much on the table.
 
#43 ·
87 or lower may.


The old poo liberty 800 had a switch. Reg and prem. They did not like 87 on a long run,,,, they were rather high in stock comp also.

Great idea on the switch.
 
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