shoot out numbers for 800's - Page 4 - HCS Snowmobile Forums

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Old 12-15-2015, 08:52 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I did read it and understood it. Don't get your panties in a bunch. It wasn't rigged, it wasn't the ECU, etc.

Correct, it wasn't ecu. It was more mechanical break in. He dynoed them all until hp rate of increase stopped. It took Poo longer the free up. Which we all know is true.


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Old 12-15-2015, 08:53 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I did read it and understood it. Don't get your panties in a bunch. It wasn't rigged, it wasn't the ECU, etc.

Btw, it sounds more like you panties are the ones bunched up, with the cat 800 losing hp every year for the past 6....


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Old 12-15-2015, 09:12 PM   #33 (permalink)
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They had a helluva time with the under hood temps by the time they got the pipe hot they were dealing with a heat soaked motors. So we talked more about the Poo 600 motor it seemed it had the worst case of heat soak over all. So we win two in the snow and lose one in the dirt and sand.
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Old 12-16-2015, 05:34 AM   #34 (permalink)
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pipe temp heat or lack of it? I have raced 600 c.f.i. Polaris sleds. this is one reason you don't see anyone running the newer stuff on the grass. pipe temp and throttle position.

if the pipe temp isn't 1000 degrees or more and you go wide open throttle the ecu retards the timing. this = less power ( the fuel burns in the pipe instead of the cylinder) if they were run back to back the et and speed would have been way better.

getting the pipe temp to this is just about impossible on a stand. motor needs to be loaded. like on a water or oil brake dyno or riding it.

the ecu can be fooled by a resister.

the real reason the 600 isn't performing is the clutching. Polaris is spinning these at 8400-8500. no power there. 8100-8200 is where they need to be. a blk. purple driven spring? really. it will never shift out with that spring in it. 85 mph top speed on these. Polaris has been pretty good on clutching but they dropped the ball here.

one driven spring change and the 600 would have spanked every sled there.

Last edited by northstarrick; 12-16-2015 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 12-16-2015, 06:52 AM   #35 (permalink)
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The facts are that Polaris under clutches all their performance sleds. And, has for years. An over revving 2-stroke is an understressed one. Great for bragging about the big rpm it pulls to everyone who doesn't understand the effect pipe temp has on creating a wider power band if you know how to clutch it to take advantage of that. In most cases, that's all it takes to make it very fast.

Skidoo, on the other hand, seldom underclutches their stuff. Instead, they put lots of protection into their ECUs. This creates a sled that can be very fast, but not for a wide range of conditions.

Cat, is another story altogether. Alsled can explain.
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:13 AM   #36 (permalink)
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It doesn't matter to me. I'm glad they actually took the time to break them in. I think they should let them use ECUs out of the break in period too. The Cat has nothing to prove. It holds all the drag and speed run wins and records. It also is easy to mod. To me out of the box stock means nothing as the factory clutching leaves too much on the table.
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:31 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by never satisfied View Post
It doesn't matter to me. I'm glad they actually took the time to break them in. I think they should let them use ECUs out of the break in period too. The Cat has nothing to prove. It holds all the drag and speed run wins and records. It also is easy to mod. To me out of the box stock means nothing as the factory clutching leaves too much on the table.

Yup, I agree with everything here including cat 800 having nothing to prove. But after reading this I'm confused why you were concerned enough about dyno numbers to post them here and take a shot at dtr?


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Old 12-16-2015, 10:45 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by patrioticinnovations View Post
The facts are that Polaris under clutches all their performance sleds. And, has for years. An over revving 2-stroke is an understressed one. Great for bragging about the big rpm it pulls to everyone who doesn't understand the effect pipe temp has on creating a wider power band if you know how to clutch it to take advantage of that. In most cases, that's all it takes to make it very fast.

Skidoo, on the other hand, seldom underclutches their stuff. Instead, they put lots of protection into their ECUs. This creates a sled that can be very fast, but not for a wide range of conditions.

Cat, is another story altogether. Alsled can explain.
My take on cat, 13.5 -1 comp, tight exhaust and timing made 162 hp a long time ago. Fine if h20 temps stayed low, but deto city when water got warm.

So they loosened up exhaust. took timing away and have settled on a 153 hp sled for years now.

If I was them, Lower comp 12.5 to 1, redesign squish and bowl, add 2-3 degrees timing to 8000 rpm, take 2 degrees away from 8000, to 8250, 4 degrees at 8500 redesign the crappy y pipe, put real reeds in it, slightly tighten exhaust, they would be at 163 to 165 hp. And go to 8400 rpm.

Why cat didn't do this I don't know, they have a pipe temp sensor and det sensor that will save the engine.

Put a team tied on it also, looks like the new secondary has issues already..

I'm a idiot and I figured it out.

Edit, Basically cat stopped doing any R&D on the old zuk, and living with what they have, doo and poo keep adjusting.

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Old 12-16-2015, 12:03 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alsled View Post
My take on cat, 13.5 -1 comp, tight exhaust and timing made 162 hp a long time ago. Fine if h20 temps stayed low, but deto city when water got warm.

So they loosened up exhaust. took timing away and have settled on a 153 hp sled for years now.

If I was them, Lower comp 12.5 to 1, redesign squish and bowl, add 2-3 degrees timing to 8000 rpm, take 2 degrees away from 8000, to 8250, 4 degrees at 8500 redesign the crappy y pipe, put real reeds in it, slightly tighten exhaust, they would be at 163 to 165 hp. And go to 8400 rpm.

Why cat didn't do this I don't know, they have a pipe temp sensor and det sensor that will save the engine.

Put a team tied on it also, looks like the new secondary has issues already..

I'm a idiot and I figured it out.

Edit, Basically cat stopped doing any R&D on the old zuk, and living with what they have, doo and poo keep adjusting.

Attachment 1548617
I knew you could explain it Al.

IMO, Cat has elected to play it very safe after so many problems and rely on owners to take the risks of adding hp. In fact, they all do it in different ways.
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:53 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alsled View Post
My take on cat, 13.5 -1 comp, tight exhaust and timing made 162 hp a long time ago. Fine if h20 temps stayed low, but deto city when water got warm.

So they loosened up exhaust. took timing away and have settled on a 153 hp sled for years now.

If I was them, Lower comp 12.5 to 1, redesign squish and bowl, add 2-3 degrees timing to 8000 rpm, take 2 degrees away from 8000, to 8250, 4 degrees at 8500 redesign the crappy y pipe, put real reeds in it, slightly tighten exhaust, they would be at 163 to 165 hp. And go to 8400 rpm.

Why cat didn't do this I don't know, they have a pipe temp sensor and det sensor that will save the engine.

Put a team tied on it also, looks like the new secondary has issues already..

I'm a idiot and I figured it out.

Edit, Basically cat stopped doing any R&D on the old zuk, and living with what they have, doo and poo keep adjusting.

Attachment 1548617

Not everybody has access to premium fuel. For example most of the small towns surrounding TRF didn't have 91 so if you needed to fill up a cat you were screwed and had to deal with the sled going into limp mode and then it's a real pooch. Poo has a much better setup with eth and non eth mode.
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