Polaris Fix / Durability Kits A search for the truth - Page 3 - HCS Snowmobile Forums

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Old 11-07-2015, 09:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Legend View Post
Yes, doo puts injects at top of cylinder. But that doesn't cool the piston skirts. It doesn't lube the piston skirts. Piston rings transfer heat to cylinder walls. But how much?


Anytime you use more oil and fuel, it aids in cooling and lube. I don't dispute that at all. But that's a bandaid. Just like thicker cylinder skirts. Same for thicker piston skirts. Piston composition can also be added to a bandaid fix.

IMO, make the clinger skirts longer, the piston will be supported and the rocking is gone. Arctic cat Pistons don't rock. Ski doo Pistons don't rock. Yeah, 2 stroke Pistons are a regular maintenance item, they need to be replaced. But as often as poo Pistons? Sure you will get some that last a long time. Some people add oil and or gas and the Pistons survive an acceptable amount of time. But again that's a bandaid.

Poo can't make the skirts longer on the current design. The case volume is already to little, as proved by all the fix kits with shims that have added hp. So the engine has to be made taller. The doo and cat engine are both taller and weigh more. Now poo will lose its advantage of a light weight compact engine. Sounds like a fair trade to me for a more reliable engine. But then poo will have to retool and redesign. That's going to cost a bunch. Is the poo bean counters going to go for that? So they lose any advantage AND have to increase their cost greatly?


I agree, dumping gas and oil helps. But it's not the real fix to the problem. Same for the fix kits. Im not dogging the fix kits, but they are bandaid fixes to make piston life acceptable.
So, are saying you dont think the pistons dont rock on the cat and doo because of the longer piston skirts or longer cylinder skirts because the fix kits use longer cat pistons.
Im also curious why the polaris cylinder skirt drops into the reed area.That just doesnt make any sense to me.That is the biggest reason I like the fix kit......it opens that area up completely

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Old 11-07-2015, 09:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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C'mon guys, let's keep this somewhat civilized and informative. It's a good thread.




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Old 11-07-2015, 10:03 PM   #23 (permalink)
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no i'am a real world mechanic. not some want to be like you. and have been doing this for a very long time. so go to the cat forum and spew your bull shit there. I know what the problem is. and its why I have people bringing me sleds from a long way away. even Canada. I don't have any problems with the Polaris 800 c.f.i. sleds. thousands of miles with out one failure. this was a good thread until you showed up. nice job retard.
Nice job on the name calling. Real classy.

I own four Polaris 800s. I own no cats. Why would I go to the cat forum?
I like poo sleds, that's why I buy them. I have no problem throwing bandaids at them.

Good for you. You are a real world mechanic. You must be the only one huh? I have a poo 800 that hasn't been touched yet. Has 2800 miles on it. Big deal. It might go 10k, and it might not. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see its not designed correctly.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:05 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm not trying to turn this into anything other than what the thread topic is, " search for the truth".


If everybody thinks I'm an idiot, fine. I will stop posting. I posted what I beleive is the truth. I got somewhat attacked by the resident "guru". I pushed back. Sorry.

I'll bow out.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Legend View Post
I'm not trying to turn this into anything other than what the thread topic is, " search for the truth".


If everybody thinks I'm an idiot, fine. I will stop posting. I posted what I beleive is the truth. I got somewhat attacked by the resident "guru". I pushed back. Sorry.

I'll bow out.
No need to bow out. Just stay civil .this obviously also applies to Rick. No name calling or bs from either . It's a good thread ,and we all would appreciate input from everyone
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:06 PM   #26 (permalink)
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So, are saying you dont think the pistons dont rock on the cat and doo because of the longer piston skirts or longer cylinder skirts because the fix kits use longer cat pistons.
Im also curious why the polaris cylinder skirt drops into the reed area.That just doesnt make any sense to me.That is the biggest reason I like the fix kit......it opens that area up completely

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The piston drops lower than the cylinder skirt. The piston is unsupported at the bottom. The piston will start to rock. Piston will then start to collapse around the piston skirts. Then piston crown knife edges. Ring lands open up. I have seen this happen on a 600 as well, granted it had 7 or 8k miles on it.

IMO the cylinder needs to be longer. The piston needs to be supported the whole stroke. Fix that ( which is impossible unless you can cast, mill, bore, etc a cylinder) and the real problem is finally fixed. But to do that, poo would have to redesign the entire engine.

The current engine design came out when, 06? The smallblock 600. Then came the 700, basically the same engine, bigger Pistons, right? Both worked well. Everybody had a 800 or bigger but Polaris. So Polaris took the 600/700 engine and put a bigger top end on it. It sucked as everybody knows. What have they done since then? Different maps, different Pistons, different injectors, etc.

What hasn't Polaris changed? The basic bottom end is still the same, correct? It works, no major widespread issues with the bottom end.
But the cylinder design hasn't changed. I'm sure there was revisions or whatever, but the design hasn't changed. They sure have gotten their $$$ worth out of the design.

Polaris knows how to properly fix it once and for all. But it's going to take a complete redesign of the engine. Something they obviously aren't ready to do yet. Especially now that they have finally gotten "acceptable" piston life out of them.
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:24 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Ok then...big question time ...if this engine was such a pos ,I'm sure it cost them a fortune in warranty claims... why has it essentially stayed unchanged for so long ? OK, so they did the odd thing here and there but isn't it still essentially the same ? I would imagine polaris isn't in the business of losing money, but maybe I'm wrong? Lots of great points in this thread . I'm just curious why they would allow these engine shenanigans to continue ? Like others said ,heat and lack of oil are it's prime nemesis .
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:55 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Ok then...big question time ...if this engine was such a pos ,I'm sure it cost them a fortune in warranty claims... why has it essentially stayed unchanged for so long ? OK, so they did the odd thing here and there but isn't it still essentially the same ? I would imagine polaris isn't in the business of losing money, but maybe I'm wrong? Lots of great points in this thread . I'm just curious why they would allow these engine shenanigans to continue ? Like others said ,heat and lack of oil are it's prime nemesis .
Not sure if this was directed at me or just to the thread. But I haven't written in this thread that the engine is a POS. That tends to get people riled up. And I'm not trying to do that, just relay my opinions.

I dont know those answers. But I can guess.
As I posted earlier, they would have to retool and redesign. Since the 600 and 800 are basically the same ( minus the obvious), both engines would have to be retooled and redesigned. They are both smaller and lighter weight than doo and cat. They would lose that advantage.
I doubt Polaris losing money. I'm not getting into the warranty part of it, but how many people on here alone have bitched about getting warranty denied?
Heat and lack of lube is the nemesis of any engine. Especially 2 strokes. Like I said before, gas and oil helps. So do stronger Pistons. But those don't fix the design flaw.
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Old 11-08-2015, 12:13 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Legend View Post
Not sure if this was directed at me or just to the thread. But I haven't written in this thread that the engine is a POS. That tends to get people riled up. And I'm not trying to do that, just relay my opinions.

I dont know those answers. But I can guess.
As I posted earlier, they would have to retool and redesign. Since the 600 and 800 are basically the same ( minus the obvious), both engines would have to be retooled and redesigned. They are both smaller and lighter weight than doo and cat. They would lose that advantage.
I doubt Polaris losing money. I'm not getting into the warranty part of it, but how many people on here alone have bitched about getting warranty denied?
Heat and lack of lube is the nemesis of any engine. Especially 2 strokes. Like I said before, gas and oil helps. So do stronger Pistons. But those don't fix the design flaw.
Sorry..not directed at you ..just a general observation on these 800's ..there's been a lot of guys ,not in this thread anyhow ,that are forever saying the poo 800 is a toilet ,and I still have lots of high milage 800 buds .
Im not sure if guys are getting denied warranty ,I was merely thinking out loud ...if these 800's were that bad and guys are forever at the dealer for warranty wouldn't poo be losing money? I wouldn't think that would help.
I appreciate your input . Making a good thread
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Old 11-08-2015, 02:48 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Doo has struggled with 800 Pistons for awhile too.
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