Cat responds to rumors at Hay Days - Page 2 - HCS Snowmobile Forums

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Old 09-10-2019, 04:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The lawsuit is against Textron and their leadership, not Cat, right?

Obviously, a laywer thought they could make money bringing that lawsuit against Textron. But, they're going to need solid evidence. On the surface, I don't know how they're going to prove it (but I suppose that's why I'm not a lawyer).

At any rate, if it's against Textron, then Cat wouldn't be affected. They're just a pawn in that game.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I’m still laughing at all the guys saying they’re done. Everyone and their stupid speculation nowadays.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by p51mstg View Post
The lawsuit is against Textron and their leadership, not Cat, right?

Obviously, a laywer thought they could make money bringing that lawsuit against Textron. But, they're going to need solid evidence. On the surface, I don't know how they're going to prove it (but I suppose that's why I'm not a lawyer).

At any rate, if it's against Textron, then Cat wouldn't be affected. They're just a pawn in that game.
Correct. It has to do with management saying cat was performing better than it was then changing their tune once the reports came out
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by p51mstg View Post
The lawsuit is against Textron and their leadership, not Cat, right?
Arctic Cat no longer exists as a company, it is simply a brand name.....

Therefore, if the lawsuit is against Textron, it by default is against Arctic Cat, Ezgo, Cushman, Jacobsen, and every other one of their brand names.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cats19 View Post
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300906203.html

class action lawsuit has been filed in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York on behalf of all investors that purchased Textron, Inc
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It will be interesting to see how much that lawsuit costs textron and if it sours their desire to reinvest. Nothing like being punished after trying to make right, right?
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If this costs Textron a bundle I could see them spinning off CAT as a whole from their company and the loss could be minimal. However it may not hold up in court as all old leftovers were costing CAT big money anyway and they were giving them away even before Textron came on board. May be a win - win for both companies. Hope it works out for CAT
The lawsuit is a joke, it's just some law firm trying cash in on a class action.

Textron's market capitilization is over $12 billion, to put that into perspective Polaris has a market cap of $5 billion
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Cat responds to rumors at Hay Days

Not to start shit but you have to see the irony in this thread. First article reads all is good, don’t worry. Second article reads Textron being sued for lying.

I’ve lived my whole life in TRF. My old boss was buds with Twomey, Tweet,Skime and the likes. One of my old coworkers is buds with Kirk and use to wrench for him and Tucker. And so on and so on I could talk. Most of the employees don’t have a clue what’s going on and the ones that do aren’t talking. It’s plain as day to see here that arctic cat went from a snowmobile company that built atv’s to a atv company that builds snowmobiles. Look at all the good news about the dirt side. They picked up catapiller then tracker. Good news, business is booming on the dirt side. They took a gamble and switched names of the dirt side to promote more sales. It bit them in the ass not realizing what diehards cat guys are. I can say with certainty that at least 60 percent of cat atv sales are cat loyalists. I guess you would have to run The number of sales in the snow belt vs non snow belt to verify. Your average Joe Schmo’s aren’t running to the cat dealer ship to pick up a atv(sxs). The sales numbers show that. What good news have you heard on the snow. Wasn’t it just two months ago they were saying don’t worry, the rumors aren’t true. We’ll see you at the track. Then to come out and say were cutting funding for racing. Cat is race bred. They have put so much effort in to being the best. Like the name change this will come back to bite them in the ass. They went to snow check only. Guaranteed sales no more than they have too. At this point I think Textron is in a rock and a hard place. They want to push forward with the dirt products but at the same time they know if the snow division shuts down it will take a hit on the dirt side also. That’s why their scaling back and keeping it around for the moment but at the same time not waisting a dime. There’s only so much room in the plant. As the dirt side grows something is going to have to give to make way for production and I don’t see them adding on when they are already scaling back as we speak on sleds. Textron is really straightening things around the plant but no money is being invested into the snow division. It’s not Textron’s fault. They just bought into the shit left over from the previous management. Everyone around town pretty much agrees that the doors would have been shut the year Textron bought them. The plant shut down and went into lay-off in December 2016. No one knew what the hell was going on and thought it was done. Then in the beginning of January 2017 they opened back up. Rumor was they ran out of money and had to take out a operating loan in the new fiscal year to open it back up. Later that month Textron buys them. So thank Textron because they saved the day but things do look dismal on the home front for the sled side. Time will tell and I wish the best for them. I find it amusing when people say someone will buy the sled division. First off Textron isn’t shutting the plant down they might just not build snowmobiles in the future. No one is going to buy the rights then Build a plant and stock it full of machinery and people in a dwindling market. If they do decide to pull the plug it’s lights out.


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Last edited by nanner; 09-11-2019 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:54 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nanner View Post
Not to start shit but you have to see the irony in this thread. First article reads all is good, don’t worry. Second article reads Textron being sued for lying.

I’ve lived my whole life in TRF. My old boss was buds with Twomey, Tweet,Skime and the likes. One of my old coworkers is buds with Kirk and use to wrench for him and Tucker. And so on and so on I could talk. Most of the employees don’t have a clue what’s going on and the ones that do aren’t talking. It’s plain as day to see here that arctic cat went from a snowmobile company that built atv’s to a atv company that builds snowmobiles. Look at all the good news about the dirt side. They picked up catapiller then tracker. Good news, business is booming on the dirt side. They took a gamble and switched names of the dirt side to promote more sales. It bit them in the ass not realizing what diehards cat guys are. I can say with certainty that at least 60 percent of cat atv sales are cat loyalists. I guess you would have to run The number of sales in the snow belt vs non snow belt to verify. Your average Joe Schmo’s aren’t running to the cat dealer ship to pick up a atv(sxs). The sales numbers show that. What good news have you heard on the snow. Wasn’t it just two months ago they were saying don’t worry, the rumors aren’t true. We’ll see you at the track. Then to come out and say were cutting funding for racing. Cat is race bred. They have put so much effort in to being the best. Like the name change this will come back to bite them in the ass. They went to snow check only. Guaranteed sales no more than they have too. At this point I think Textron is in a rock and a hard place. They want to push forward with the dirt products but at the same time they know if the snow division shuts down it will take a hit on the dirt side also. That’s why their scaling back and keeping it around for the moment but at the same time not waisting a dime. There’s only so much room in the plant. As the dirt side grows something is going to have to give to make way for production and I don’t see them adding on when they are already scaling back as we speak on sleds. Textron is really straightening things around the plant but no money is being invested into the snow division. It’s not Textron’s fault. They just bought into the shit left over from the previous management. Everyone around town pretty much agrees that the doors would have been shut the year Textron bought them. The plant shut down and went into lay-off in December 2016. No one knew what the hell was going on and thought it was done. Then in the beginning of January 2017 they opened back up. Rumor was they ran out of money and had to take out a operating loan in the new fiscal year to open it back up. Later that month Textron buys them. So thank Textron because they saved the day but things do look dismal on the home front for the sled side. Time will tell and I wish the best for them. I find it amusing when people say someone will buy the sled division. First off Textron isn’t shutting the plant down they might just not build snowmobiles in the future. No one is going to buy the rights then Build a plant and stock it full of machinery and people in a dwindling market. If they do decide to pull the plug it’s lights out.


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Interesting to get a local's perspective. It may not be a popular review by some, but it sure makes one think ... especially the idea of the dirt division taking priority, and it shifting from a snowmobile company that built UTV's to now being a UTV company that builds snowmobiles.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Nanner, that was a bit difficult to follow, but I'm glad I did. Very insightful.

What you said confirmed how important the dirt side is to Arctic Cat and Textron. You also confirmed how important the Textron purchase was in terms of saving the company.

I've said this before, but people can hate Textron, and that's fine. They're the perfect bad guy - blame them for all the layoffs and the pullback from stuff you think is important, such as racing. But, they're probably the only organization that could've pulled Cat back from the brink.

Vince - exactly.

tenacious84 - I'm sorry, but what you said is not correct. Arctic Cat is a company that is 100% owned by another company. It's not like a marriage, where all assets become community assets and everything is intermingled. It's more like a mortgage on a house, where the people buying the house maintain it, pay the bills, etc., but the mortgage holder still has the the deed and technically owns the house until it's paid for.

Everyone - including Snow Tech and American Snowmobiler - need to stop creating bad news. It's not healthy. Constantly predicting Arctic Cat's demise is not connected to anything that's verifiable - people are merely quoting each other's rumors.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:03 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Interesting to get a local's perspective. It may not be a popular review by some, but it sure makes one think ... especially the idea of the dirt division taking priority, and it shifting from a snowmobile company that built UTV's to now being a UTV company that builds snowmobiles.
Its no different than Polaris. They once sold far more snowmobiles than ATVs, but now its completely the other way around.
I believe it was around 2002 or so that Cat ATV sales surpassed snowmobile sales for the first time. Its a no brainer to understand why the shift on multiple fronts. 1) that market is continuing to grow 2) its more consistent year round cash flow
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:25 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Over producing products without buyers is a bad idea. That's what Cat did. Forcing products onto dealers with sales is what caused the excess glut in inventory. Dealers accepted the idea that they had to accept the products and said to Cat "you carry the load of the inventory". This in turn causes the company to need borrowed cash. Textron invested cash. After too many years of this cycle of doom they were caught with their pants down about December as mentioned. No cash left to produce things that weren't selling enough of without "giving" them away at a loss. Textron had little choice but was interested enough to take over the giant money pit known as Arctic Cat. The geniuses that came in cleaned out the old guard that created the mess and then looked for further cost savings (engineers and cuts in production of course). This has turned into what we see now. Disorganization and loss of local organizational function to make it work as a small company. Textron will make it work. If not they'll abandon the snow group as they have with other portions of the company that have been non performing. This is the same as any other big company. Nothing different. Blame the previous management for the problems. It's not the current one trying to save sleds that is to blame.

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