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-   -   2020 front end (https://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/493-procross-2012/1854768-2020-front-end.html)

Greg B. 03-17-2019 01:52 AM

117 Attachment(s)
Anyone know what was the actual changes? I am thinking about bolting one on my 19 if it is possible.

blindsquirrell 03-17-2019 06:30 AM

I am curious as well. When I looked at them at the Snowdeo it looks like it’s just the spindle and upper a-frame. What I don’t know is if there are different mounting points.

12meter joe 03-17-2019 09:30 AM

I bet the mounting points have not changed and it’s a direct bolt up. It would put a lot of weight to the back by raising it so some adjustments would need to be made in the back but that’s easy.

I’m sure you probably watched this

https://youtu.be/u0EXFsKJVtA

favoritos 03-17-2019 10:38 AM

I wonder if it requires a different length shock? The lower mount point is significantly higher.


I can see how the handling can change quite a bit with the new geometry. That is a bigger factor than the clearance.

Flowdaddy 03-17-2019 11:08 AM

Might have to give it a shot on my XC for a summer project.

taperk600 03-17-2019 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20189162)
Anyone know what was the actual changes? I am thinking about bolting one on my 19 if it is possible.

From what I've been able to find out, the only changes are the new upper A arm and the taller forged spindles. The rest stayed the same....including the mounting locations.

I can see where the extra length below the lower arm would help in giving the front end more bite. It's adding more ski pressure without having to adjust anything else (limiter straps, etc).

Zambroski 03-17-2019 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20189162)
Anyone know what was the actual changes? I am thinking about bolting one on my 19 if it is possible.

I'm just curious as to why you'd want to make this update? :dunno:

Greg B. 03-17-2019 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zambroski (Post 20189510)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20189162)
Anyone know what was the actual changes? I am thinking about bolting one on my 19 if it is possible.

I'm just curious as to why you'd want to make this update? <img src="https://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif" border="0" alt="" title=":dunno:" class="inlineimg" />

Cheap mod to have a 2020

Greg B. 03-17-2019 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperk600 (Post 20189506)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20189162)
Anyone know what was the actual changes? I am thinking about bolting one on my 19 if it is possible.

From what I've been able to find out, the only changes are the new upper A arm and the taller forged spindles. The rest stayed the same....including the mounting locations.

I can see where the extra length below the lower arm would help in giving the front end more bite. It's adding more ski pressure without having to adjust anything else (limiter straps, etc).

I may have to go for it. Did the shock lengths stay the same?

Zambroski 03-17-2019 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20189608)
Cheap mod to have a 2020

Yeah...cheap and easy I guess. I just wonder what the real gains may be. I guess I'd prolly rather dump that money into some revalving or something other in the handling area.

taperk600 03-17-2019 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20189610)
I may have to go for it. Did the shock lengths stay the same?

From what I was told...yes shock lengths are the same.......

15tigger 03-17-2019 02:58 PM

I put on Powder Pro skis. Same effect. The spindle bolt is 1 inch higher off the ground than factory skis. Most people don't realize, but a Powder pro bottom is the same as a SLT bottom on hardpack. The powder pro has a second vertical wall for steering in powder. Hence the taller profile and better turning in loose snow.

blindsquirrell 03-17-2019 03:01 PM

Looked up the prices on my current sled and spindles are $195 each and a-frames are $105 each so not a cheap upgrade in my opinion

Greg B. 03-17-2019 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindsquirrell (Post 20189792)
Looked up the prices on my current sled and spindles are $195 each and a-frames are $105 each so not a cheap upgrade in my opinion

I have a credit at the dealer and I can sell off the old parts. Would be a pretty cheap up grade for me vs buying a 2020.

mxsnow 03-22-2019 08:49 AM

If the spindle is 1 1/2 inches taller wouldnt the upper a arm mounting to bulkhead be higher?

Olzy 03-22-2019 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxsnow (Post 20194890)
If the spindle is 1 1/2 inches taller wouldnt the upper a arm mounting to bulkhead be higher?

No the length is added between the lower arm and ski mount.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk

Olzy 03-22-2019 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olzy (Post 20194902)
No the length is added between the lower arm and ski mount.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f000daa9da.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e7b7cd047c.jpg

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

zertrider 03-22-2019 09:17 AM

Is spacing between the mount points on the spindle the same? Just curious.

Olzy 03-22-2019 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zertrider (Post 20194918)
Is spacing between the mount points on the spindle the same? Just curious.

Yes, the only difference in measurements like I posted earlier, the ski mount is lowered 1.5 inches.

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drkCrix 03-22-2019 10:23 AM

I have the spindles on order, waiting to get part numbers for the upper a-arms

Greg B. 03-22-2019 11:15 AM

A snowtrax video mentioned the skid mounting points were changed. Anyone know if that is true? I don’t trust what they say most of the time

F8HO 03-22-2019 12:01 PM

A lot goes into the geometry of these sleds and making them handle the way they do. I cant imagine this just being a bolt a few parts and you are all set. Also how is the shock length the same from eye to eye if the lower mounting is moved up 1.5 inches ? That's makes no sense.

skidooboy 03-22-2019 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20195000)
A snowtrax video mentioned the skid mounting points were changed. Anyone know if that is true? I donít trust what they say most of the time

more than likely the rear will be raised too. do some research on the ice age, elevate kit. mostly mountain guys interested in this. raising the front and rear of the ride height for more ground clearance, and geometry changes. several mfgr's "lifting" their sleds now. if the ice age kit wasnt so damn spendy, they would sell a TON OF THEM! Ski

driftbanger 03-22-2019 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F8HO (Post 20195044)
A lot goes into the geometry of these sleds and making them handle the way they do. I cant imagine this just being a bolt a few parts and you are all set. Also how is the shock length the same from eye to eye if the lower mounting is moved up 1.5 inches ? That's makes no sense.

The lower mounting isn't moved up as much as the whole snowmobile is lifted higher. Like putting your skis on a set of dollies. The whole thing is higher off the ground, they lengthened the bottom of the spindle where the ski attaches

taperk600 03-22-2019 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F8HO (Post 20195044)
A lot goes into the geometry of these sleds and making them handle the way they do. I cant imagine this just being a bolt a few parts and you are all set. Also how is the shock length the same from eye to eye if the lower mounting is moved up 1.5 inches ? That's makes no sense.

From what I've been able to find out....
The additional length is from the lower a arm down to the ski only. The length of the spindle from lower a arm to upper a arm is the same.

Basically the same as if you took your current front suspension....cut the spindle between the lower a arm and the ski, and added 1 1/2" of length to the spindle where you cut it. So the distance from the lower a arm to ski mount is now 1 1/2" longer.

In theory, with no changes to the skid, you have now added more ski pressure by adding this 1 1/2" to the spindle.

sledhead800 03-22-2019 05:03 PM

Cat claims the new front end geometry has a lower roll center. But with the added 1.5" to the spindle the sled is now taller and the CG is higher. I wonder how that will affect ski lift?

Greg B. 03-22-2019 08:05 PM

I will have friend call cat tech for me if I ever get around to this project. Won’t be for while yet as I have to do the whole work thing. Lol. Probably fall

Olzy 03-22-2019 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperk600 (Post 20195234)
From what I've been able to find out....
The additional length is from the lower a arm down to the ski only. The length of the spindle from lower a arm to upper a arm is the same.

Basically the same as if you took your current front suspension....cut the spindle between the lower a arm and the ski, and added 1 1/2" of length to the spindle where you cut it. So the distance from the lower a arm to ski mount is now 1 1/2" longer.

In theory, with no changes to the skid, you have now added more ski pressure by adding this 1 1/2" to the spindle.

Yeah I was telling the truth lol

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

taperk600 03-22-2019 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olzy (Post 20195514)
Yeah I was telling the truth lol

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Yes you were.
As was I in earlier posts too.
Just explaining it differently in an attempt to clear up confusion that was seeming to come in on the discussion.

Olzy 03-22-2019 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperk600 (Post 20195538)
Yes you were.

As was I in earlier posts too.

Just explaining it differently in an attempt to clear up confusion that was seeming to come in on the discussion.

[emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

F8HO 03-23-2019 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperk600 (Post 20195234)
From what I've been able to find out....
The additional length is from the lower a arm down to the ski only. The length of the spindle from lower a arm to upper a arm is the same.

Basically the same as if you took your current front suspension....cut the spindle between the lower a arm and the ski, and added 1 1/2" of length to the spindle where you cut it. So the distance from the lower a arm to ski mount is now 1 1/2" longer.

In theory, with no changes to the skid, you have now added more ski pressure by adding this 1 1/2" to the spindle.


OK, I got ya now. An engineer mind I am not :rofl:

catdog800 03-23-2019 12:34 AM

The new spindles look a little too much Flash Gordon for me.

Crnr2Crnr 03-23-2019 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20189162)
Anyone know what was the actual changes? I am thinking about bolting one on my 19 if it is possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20195476)
I will have friend call cat tech for me if I ever get around to this project. Wonít be for while yet as I have to do the whole work thing. Lol. Probably fall

getting the turdbrowngold ones? :thumbsup:

Greg B. 03-23-2019 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crnr2Crnr (Post 20195770)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20189162)
Anyone know what was the actual changes? I am thinking about bolting one on my 19 if it is possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20195476)
I will have friend call cat tech for me if I ever get around to this project. Won’t be for while yet as I have to do the whole work thing. Lol. Probably fall

getting the turdbrowngold ones? <img src="https://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.png" border="0" alt="" title="&#x1f44d;" class="inlineimg" />

Of course. They will match my under pants racing stripes.

Crnr2Crnr 03-23-2019 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg B. (Post 20195932)
Of course. They will match my under pants racing stripes.

so basically, the 2020 trail sleds are getting the 2019 SX spindles correct?

https://scontent-msp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ce&oe=5D1839CE

appears to be a lot of lift on the front of the skid, like the limiters are pulled up which gives more ski pressure. but you don't always want too much ski pressure and you don't always want too little fts pressure. will be interesting to see how your sled sits after fitting the spindles before you adjust your skid.

also wonder what the Riot skis would be like on a ZR?

mnstang 03-23-2019 01:39 PM

If all the spindles do is raise the sled, couldn't similar results come from either just pulling the limiter straps up or moving skid mount holes? Without raising the center of gravity? I'd think there is some other difference than just raising the arms higher off the ground

guenther 03-23-2019 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 15tigger (Post 20189786)
I put on Powder Pro skis. Same effect. The spindle bolt is 1 inch higher off the ground than factory skis. Most people don't realize, but a Powder pro bottom is the same as a SLT bottom on hardpack. The powder pro has a second vertical wall for steering in powder. Hence the taller profile and better turning in loose snow.


I put on Powder Pros as well but didn't pay attention to the 1" increase in height. Good to know. :bc:

DamageInc 03-24-2019 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnstang (Post 20196012)
If all the spindles do is raise the sled, couldn't similar results come from either just pulling the limiter straps up or moving skid mount holes? Without raising the center of gravity? I'd think there is some other difference than just raising the arms higher off the ground


Pulling in the limiter straps is reducing the travel of the center shock/spring, which is not a good thing for a trail sled, especially with today's "rider forward" sleds.

mnstang 03-24-2019 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageInc (Post 20196538)
Pulling in the limiter straps is reducing the travel of the center shock/spring, which is not a good thing for a trail sled, especially with today's "rider forward" sleds.

I agree on the strapa but I wouldn't say lifting the sled is much better. Raising front mount points of the skid how about that

Crnr2Crnr 03-24-2019 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageInc (Post 20196538)
Pulling in the limiter straps is reducing the travel of the center shock/spring, which is not a good thing for a trail sled, especially with today's "rider forward" sleds.

disagree, too much track bite in the front of the skid allows more ski lift which doesn't necessarily make for better handling and cornering. changes to coupling block also obviously affects ski lift. both my snopro's are moved up one notch on the limiters and it corners better under throttle. tested several settings and putting them one hole up worked the best by far for my riding areas. one hole isn't much, and pulling it two holes created too much track spin.
my 500 is faster in the twisty stuff than the 720 is. 720 has an adjustable strap so it's easier to fiddle with on the trail for testing.


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