Non-ves 700 into 2005 Fusion project - HCS Snowmobile Forums

Fusion This is a brand-specific forum. Posts on this forum are assumed to be questions aimed at similar model owners, and are not looking for comments of a sarcastic or "bashing" nature. Please be aware that if you violate this policy you are in danger of losing your posting privileges on this website.The calling out or posting of another members personal information IE phone number or address is prohibited.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-20-2011, 02:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
D-rail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,683
Current Sled(s): 850 Pro S SB, '06 Fuse 6
Previous Sled(s): Polaris, Ski-Doo, Yamadog, Rupp, G-Whiz, Scrap Iron, etc.
Location: Duluth
Favorite Riding Area: roller coaster stuff
19-20 Mileage: .3
18-19 Mileage: 3430
17-18 Mileage: 3205
16-17 Mileage: 3605
Age: 66
Riding Since: 1973
Default Non-ves 700 into 2005 Fusion project

It is still an ongoing ordeal. Seems like every time I think I'm getting closer to getting more done, I find more stuff to do. At this point, I have plans to work out what I do have left. It is kinda longwinded, but here goes:

Intro:
As several people on here already know, last spring, I bought a 20005 Fusion. With a blown motor... (surprised?) Actually, the one I got was mostly missing stuff because this dealer demo sled gave its original engine up to an unfortunate customer. Yeah, yeah, I'd read about 'em way before I bought it, then started pricing out what it would cost to fit the remaining parts to make the 900 a runner, (BIG dollars). Bare bone engines needing rebuilds and updates hovered for over a grand on Ebay. And to make it a reliable runner would always a bone of contention, and I was looking to ride something smooth, because my hands go numb even after holding a paintbrush for longer than five minutes. From all the reports I read on here and on Snowest, I wanted something that I could expect to last, I like to ride my sleds, not spend hours making them look like they're in a parade, or leave them lurking in the garage, whether in hibernation or in the shop for repairs. I'd ridden a Fusion and the newest Polaris sleds and was impressed. I wanted something that would be easier on the body when we put on those 200 mile days. All easy miles, too...

While searching on here, Snowest and a couple other websites for information, it sounded like nobody recommended fitting anything but the original 900 engine in this sled, let alone a big block non-ves engine. They have done a big block swap in the race chassis, the newer Fusions, and even in the IQ series, but not in this one. Using the older non-ves, the biggest drawback is you can't get a reverse to work (unless you could snag onto a newer style ignition and then wire it in, another project for later-maybe/maybe NOT). And since I had dialed in my engines using button clutches, the spline jackshaft is another obstacle that makes the Team "98" roller the clutch I will be working with. I have obtained several helixes to try. Welcome to the new stuff.

In 2006, Polaris made a few “updates” and have kept refining them ever since, but this design was the first “A” arm front end, and along with everything else, they definitely made this morphodite quite the “package”. Since Polaris made it basically a “one off” design, I figgered on doing the same. It does not lend itself to dropping a different engine in with a new motor plate and away we go mentality. I relish this kind of project, and it is/was keeping my ideas flowing trying to figger out how to squeeze this engine into this chassis. It's not something I would recommend to anyone, unless you enjoy a challenge, but you might take a look at what I've encountered and worked out for solutions. Maybe you'll come up with something even better if you decide this is anything like what you'd like to try. I am open for comments and WTF's.



Carburetors face towards the rear, not the forward facing EFI that the 900 had. Engine mounts, steering, cutting pieces of the sides and a crossmember of the chassis so the engine could sit as low as practical, pipe fitting, instruments, air box, reservoirs, hose routing, wiring all have to be redesigned and reworked. I've still got plenty more to do...

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040785.jpg
Views:	238
Size:	294.4 KB
ID:	505271




I took apart the headlight because the amber reflector was flopping around, and when I tried to first glue the little bugger in place, it got slightly out of position and left some glue trails and marks inside the lenses. Fun with a heat gun, a handful of screwdrivers, sealer and a sanding and polishing ordeal ensued. I glued the other one in as long as I was in there. Looks like a common problem...

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060248.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	263.2 KB
ID:	505272

__________________









Criminals don't obey laws so we need more laws to stop criminals.
D-rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-20-2011, 02:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
D-rail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,683
Current Sled(s): 850 Pro S SB, '06 Fuse 6
Previous Sled(s): Polaris, Ski-Doo, Yamadog, Rupp, G-Whiz, Scrap Iron, etc.
Location: Duluth
Favorite Riding Area: roller coaster stuff
19-20 Mileage: .3
18-19 Mileage: 3430
17-18 Mileage: 3205
16-17 Mileage: 3605
Age: 66
Riding Since: 1973
Default

Getting started:


I had a couple old, toasted 900 blocks that came with the sled, and the mounts, so I put them together and took an inventory of how they fit, to get an idea where Polaris had them aligned. I took a few measurements, and started pulling out all the unusable items that would not relate to this swap.


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040796.jpg
Views:	241
Size:	271.5 KB
ID:	505275

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040802.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	189.9 KB
ID:	505276

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040795.jpg
Views:	178
Size:	157.1 KB
ID:	505277





I made a “tripod” with a block and tackle to set over the bare chassis, as I knew I would not be able to maneuver the engine up and down in the fine increments needed to determine how to fit it in, and what needed to be changed, relocated or removed. I could see right away the steering post and the jackshaft were immediate obstacles, and I would resort to cutting parts off the sides to get the engine down far enough, this engine is a tad wider than the original 900.

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050633.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	294.3 KB
ID:	505278










The people who have attempted these similar swaps say the jackshaft would be in the way of the carburetors. And they would typically tilt the engine, have the carburetors aim over the jackshaft in the newer Fuses and IQ's, often using shorter carb boots, and pod filters. I opted to cut out about an inch of depth of the tunnel, remove the water traps from the carbs (I epoxied the holes where the hoses attached to make better clearance), and go under the higher 2005 jackshaft and make an airbox connection from there. After measuring, I found the closest the track/studs would get to is still the lowest part of the front cooler, so whatever track would normally fit on here would not be hindered by my cutting out a part of the tunnel. I'm running a 1.25” track with 1.375” studs. I would eventually make a plate and have a friend weld it in place where I cut out the hole. I would also need to reinforce the jackshaft bearing mount later, too, because the original supporting bracket would be in the way of the new airbox area.

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050599.jpg
Views:	207
Size:	242.4 KB
ID:	505279
__________________









Criminals don't obey laws so we need more laws to stop criminals.
D-rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 03:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
D-rail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,683
Current Sled(s): 850 Pro S SB, '06 Fuse 6
Previous Sled(s): Polaris, Ski-Doo, Yamadog, Rupp, G-Whiz, Scrap Iron, etc.
Location: Duluth
Favorite Riding Area: roller coaster stuff
19-20 Mileage: .3
18-19 Mileage: 3430
17-18 Mileage: 3205
16-17 Mileage: 3605
Age: 66
Riding Since: 1973
Default

Steering:


The original Fusion steering post was gonna be in the way of the new engine mounting, so I needed to move it over, but had to incorporate a separate tube fed from a special center steering post mount I fabricated that would replace the flimsy rider select version Polaris put out. It had to fit inside the fuel tank cutout, and mount securely to the steering hoop plate. I had to keep the secondary post close to the tunnel so it wouldn't rub the engine or the mounting areas. I moved the lower stock post base mount over, leaving barely enough room for the coolant hose to meet with the front cooler connection, squared up by sanding and cutting the bottom of it, made new screw holes and repositioned the CV joint so it would be as straight as possible. I utilized a swivel bar to align the steering post off to the side, too. After I had decided the routing needed, I saw an interesting design at the Haydays swapmeet. Polaris had cutaways of their frames on display, and their newest sleds had used something similar, but went forward over the engine with a swivel bar mating to a separate down post to the steering arms. My version goes sideways about 4 inches at the top, then down, and underneath the engine, very close to the original trough they made in the chassis floor.

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060235.jpg
Views:	200
Size:	265.3 KB
ID:	505287

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060225.jpg
Views:	178
Size:	151.5 KB
ID:	505285

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060227.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	197.3 KB
ID:	505286


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050971.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	155.6 KB
ID:	505283

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050973.jpg
Views:	175
Size:	137.2 KB
ID:	505284







The center post is from an edge, shortened, and slightly modified, using a small steering rod with ball joint ends to mate the two posts' actions. The secondary post is from an IQR or newer Prox440 sled, mounted upside down, welded to the original Fusion CV joint, with a narrowed (to keep from rubbing the engine) post made from a reinforced steering arm, welded underneath the CV coupler, and added my own limit/stop connector for the bottom stock steering arm. I used the threads in the lower part of the steering arm to lock fit a grade 8 bolt. I cut off the hex head, narrowed the exposed end slightly to fit inside the stock ball joint at the bottom base mount connection, then cut threads on the bolt end to install a nut for better security, locking it to the stock base swivel/ball, similar to the stock design. Whew!! I think the lower end could be stronger, though, but it's at least as strong as the original, maybe a little bit more so.

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060220.jpg
Views:	191
Size:	182.5 KB
ID:	505281

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060221.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	174.7 KB
ID:	505282
__________________









Criminals don't obey laws so we need more laws to stop criminals.
D-rail is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 10-20-2011, 03:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
D-rail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,683
Current Sled(s): 850 Pro S SB, '06 Fuse 6
Previous Sled(s): Polaris, Ski-Doo, Yamadog, Rupp, G-Whiz, Scrap Iron, etc.
Location: Duluth
Favorite Riding Area: roller coaster stuff
19-20 Mileage: .3
18-19 Mileage: 3430
17-18 Mileage: 3205
16-17 Mileage: 3605
Age: 66
Riding Since: 1973
Default

Speedometer:


The speedometer connection was modified to fit the old style cable. I partially drilled out a grade 8 bolt and screwed it into the drive shaft, where the stock trigger would normally fit, got the steel insert with the square hole from the old style driveshaft and press fit with loctite into the bolt so the “key” would match the Gen 2/700 version. The newer drive shaft is hollow, so I had to make sure the “key” would bottom inside the bolt, that way, it wouldn't fall inside the driveshaft. Once I had the key in place, I could determine how deep the cable drive would need to be to fit, centered and welded the 700 housing with the speedo drive at the right height onto the original Fusion 900 bearing retainer.





Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050581.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	215.2 KB
ID:	505288


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050582.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	129.8 KB
ID:	505289


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050585.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	148.5 KB
ID:	505290


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050589.jpg
Views:	163
Size:	192.1 KB
ID:	505291


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050671.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	133.9 KB
ID:	505292








Dash:


I siamesed the 700 series speedometer and tach so they would fit into the weird sized hole left when I took the 900's electronic MFD (muli function display) out. I had to epoxy them together, after carefully cutting them open and aligning the two round housings together. I had some aluminum diamond plate I cut to help fit the displays in the dash, then siliconed the heck out of the gauges to keep them secure.



Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050484.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	152.5 KB
ID:	505293


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050485.jpg
Views:	188
Size:	110.2 KB
ID:	505294


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050482.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	194.5 KB
ID:	505297


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050487.jpg
Views:	181
Size:	179.1 KB
ID:	505295


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060267.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	252.4 KB
ID:	505296
__________________









Criminals don't obey laws so we need more laws to stop criminals.
D-rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 09:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 44
Current Sled(s): fusion 900, Kids: zr 370, 120 mini z
Previous Sled(s): f7, rx1, viper, xc800, xc700, xcr 600, mxz 670, mxz 583
Location: Muskegon, MI
Age: 31
Riding Since: 1988
Default

Nice project, looks good so far!!
yfzduner2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 01:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
NewFusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 644
Current Sled(s): 05 Polaris Fusion 900 50th anniversary ed.
Previous Sled(s): 80 Ski doo Everest 500
Location: Blain, Pennsylvania
Favorite Riding Area: In the back yard
Age: 25
Riding Since: 1998
Default

Can't wait to see it when it's all done. Are you going to do a custom paint job since your doing all of the custom work for the motor?
NewFusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 01:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
D-rail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,683
Current Sled(s): 850 Pro S SB, '06 Fuse 6
Previous Sled(s): Polaris, Ski-Doo, Yamadog, Rupp, G-Whiz, Scrap Iron, etc.
Location: Duluth
Favorite Riding Area: roller coaster stuff
19-20 Mileage: .3
18-19 Mileage: 3430
17-18 Mileage: 3205
16-17 Mileage: 3605
Age: 66
Riding Since: 1973
Default

The last several weeks, I've been wrestling with the engine mount system. Early, I'd made an engine mock-up so I could determine what my general idea to fit would be, but once I started dropping the engine into place, I could see I would have to work around the cooling lines, and keep the alignment with the secondary. I had to realign the steering post from my first couple attempts to what I wound up with (which is posted above). It fits, but it is really close, yet far enough away from hitting anything. It wouldn't fit any other way unless I could somehow go over the engine, like the race versions. Not gonna happen here, the rest of the steering is buried way under the frame. I added a small aluminum bracket to one of the recoil bolts where I could zip-tie the wires coming out from the engine, and it keeps them in a position where they are pliable/loose enough to be unaffected by vibration and movement, yet held in place where they won't get pinched or rubbed on anything.

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060448.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	202.2 KB
ID:	505427


I took the aluminum hose that fit behind the right footwell area, cut off a piece, and spliced it to the front cooler, secured it under the steering arm/trough, attached it with 3/4" gray hose couplings you can buy at most hardware stores, and brought the coolant access up to the front of the engine where I can hook into the radiator and coolant reservoir. When I went to have my flat carb "access" plate installed, I had my friend also weld up all the holes I put in during this process. It's all trial and error.

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060446.jpg
Views:	180
Size:	223.6 KB
ID:	505437



Before I even had purchased the sled, I'd bought an engine mounting plate from a guy on HCS, but it is designed for fitting a big block into the newer Fusions/IQ. Since it doesn't fit this set-up, I will be selling it once this project is finished. Looks like a nice piece, though...


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050171.jpg
Views:	180
Size:	224.3 KB
ID:	505426





I obtained three aluminum engine brackets from an '03 800 edge model. A friend welded an additional end onto the mag side forward facing bracket to clear the steering rod that goes from the post to the pitman arm. In the rear, I installed three Polaris standard front mounts from the 2000 Gen 2. The holes line up right even with the top edge of the front cooler. The new plate lines up with the the edge, too. The edge brackets fit underneath some fancy engine plate I'd gotten years ago to help eliminate engine flex. I had my friend weld an additional center bracket to the engine plate to secure it for helping to spread the load out better. You wouldn't need the engine plate, except you wouldn't be able to add the third (center) bracket. The idea was to mount the engine so the carbs fit under the jackshaft, and close enough so the tops of the carbs would not rub and still be able to easily unscrew.



Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060445.jpg
Views:	231
Size:	271.9 KB
ID:	505429


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060442.jpg
Views:	209
Size:	203.2 KB
ID:	505430


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060441.jpg
Views:	209
Size:	194.3 KB
ID:	505431


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060484.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	170.3 KB
ID:	505432






I built reinforced steel “pans” for the front mounts, (mainly using steel here because I can weld steel, I'm not so good with aluminum yet), and will use the standard 800 edge rectangular mounts on them, then riveted and bolted the pans onto the floor and sides. I had to design the pans, fitting them around the structural rivets and brackets, mount them to the frame, then make plates to fit down on top of those, and once I have the engine lined up correctly, weld them in position.


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060488.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	224.6 KB
ID:	505433


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060513.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	154.9 KB
ID:	505434


Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060515.jpg
Views:	185
Size:	224.8 KB
ID:	505435







__________________









Criminals don't obey laws so we need more laws to stop criminals.
D-rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 02:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
D-rail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,683
Current Sled(s): 850 Pro S SB, '06 Fuse 6
Previous Sled(s): Polaris, Ski-Doo, Yamadog, Rupp, G-Whiz, Scrap Iron, etc.
Location: Duluth
Favorite Riding Area: roller coaster stuff
19-20 Mileage: .3
18-19 Mileage: 3430
17-18 Mileage: 3205
16-17 Mileage: 3605
Age: 66
Riding Since: 1973
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewFusion View Post
Can't wait to see it when it's all done. Are you going to do a custom paint job since your doing all of the custom work for the motor?

If you know me, I am not one to leave anything alone for too long... We will see, it is almost like new as it is. I already have my brother working on a little Boris (from Bullwinkle) holding a lit bomb for the side panel...
__________________









Criminals don't obey laws so we need more laws to stop criminals.
D-rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 10:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
-dw-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,005
Current Sled(s): 13 Indy, 01 600xcsp, 00 600xcsp
Previous Sled(s): 3 arcticcraps
Location: Central Mn
Favorite Riding Area: from my house
Age: 37
Riding Since: 85
Default

-dw- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 09:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
xxxl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,366
Location: Two Harbors, MN
Default

Looks nice D-rail, WOW thats alot of work!
xxxl is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:01 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.