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Old 02-24-2018, 08:15 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I was already pretty well sure a 900 would find it's way into my garage to replace one of my etecs but that lingering doubt of whether it would put a smile on my face for that top end snap was always there.

I can't wait to hear some honest ride reports on this but in the meanwhile, i'm going to start putting pennies in a shoebox for one of these in a year or 2.
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Old 02-25-2018, 08:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I most likely would have got one of these over a 1200 when I was sled shopping, that said, killing off the 1200 will leave a gap.
I've been hoping for a 1200 ace v4 for some time. Maybe it is on its way now?
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Old 02-25-2018, 08:41 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Old 02-25-2018, 11:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Cost will be another item. This 900t costs way more than the 1200. The 1200 was less than the 800 by a fair margin, and the 900 is several hundred over the 850.
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Old 02-26-2018, 05:37 AM   #25 (permalink)
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but then , at least around here, the 900 Ace seems to hold resale value exceptionally well.
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:14 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The 1200 4-tec was designed and manufactured by ROTAX, but the 1200 is in its 10th year of production the 900 is 5 years old.
The 2018 Doo 1200 Renegade 137" weight was 523lbs dry (614 wet) The 2018 900 Renegade ACE 137" was 503lbs (594 wet). 850 ETEC Renegade 137" is 485lbs (576 wet). Ski doo claimed 25lbs lighter with the G4 chassis but 850 vs the 800 etec in the same trim is actually only 10lbs lighter.
An integrated turbo will add 15lbs, an aftermarket will add 12-20lbs depending on who's kit you buy.
The 900 ACE Doo motor is about 2" narrower than the 1200, and the 900 motor (motor only/ not exhaust) is 20+lbs lighter than the 1200 motor/motor, not to mention a better valve train, head design, crank rods and pistons as well as carrying its weight lower then the 1200. The G4 is a narrow chassis, they can't get the 1200 in it with out major chassis mods. The 900 is a newer motor than the 1200 and the 1200 weights more.
The 2018 Ace 900 max rpm is 7250, 1200 is 7850, both run + 400rpm on the field. I'm quite sure you will see the ACE turbo spinning 8200-8400rpm, however Doo will indicate 8000rpm as max.
BRP/Rotax seem to modify/upgrade their motors about 3-5years into the motor production, (like 800 to 800HO) or let it run its course as is (1200). The 1200 was an over achiever on the snow, but 2019 will be the last year for them (Expedition only).
Don't be surprised to see a Doo 850 2 stroke Turbo next year (Summit) or 2020. Patents where approved in 15/16 for Rotax, 2 stroke turbo including a patent for an electric motor assist turbine (zero lag) this uses the similar SHOT system capacitor to electrically spin the turbine at low speed throttle request via capacitor. Possible liquid cooled pipe, and ECU that controls the turbo air flow rate and boost pressure; it will have full control of the compressor speed, the pipe (liquid or not) which will match these and the direct inject fuel flow rate along with the return speed of back pressure for a more complete intake, combustion, exhaust cycle. The 2017 BRP's ECU is twice as fast input/output and also has staged injection capabilities (booster injectors). Maybe this will never happen but don't be surprised WHEN it does.
While the 900 turbo HP is not at the Sidewinder/9000 Cat level it is going to be an honest 100+lbs lighter and that is substantial.
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:41 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaige2 View Post
The 1200 4-tec was designed and manufactured by ROTAX, but the 1200 is in its 10th year of production the 900 is 5 years old.
The 2018 Doo 1200 Renegade 137" weight was 523lbs dry (614 wet) The 2018 900 Renegade ACE 137" was 503lbs (594 wet). 850 ETEC Renegade 137" is 485lbs (576 wet). Ski doo claimed 25lbs lighter with the G4 chassis but 850 vs the 800 etec in the same trim is actually only 10lbs lighter.
An integrated turbo will add 15lbs, an aftermarket will add 12-20lbs depending on who's kit you buy.
The 900 ACE Doo motor is about 2" narrower than the 1200, and the 900 motor (motor only/ not exhaust) is 20+lbs lighter than the 1200 motor/motor, not to mention a better valve train, head design, crank rods and pistons as well as carrying its weight lower then the 1200. The G4 is a narrow chassis, they can't get the 1200 in it with out major chassis mods. The 900 is a newer motor than the 1200 and the 1200 weights more.
The 2018 Ace 900 max rpm is 7250, 1200 is 7850, both run + 400rpm on the field. I'm quite sure you will see the ACE turbo spinning 8200-8400rpm, however Doo will indicate 8000rpm as max.
BRP/Rotax seem to modify/upgrade their motors about 3-5years into the motor production, (like 800 to 800HO) or let it run its course as is (1200). The 1200 was an over achiever on the snow, but 2019 will be the last year for them (Expedition only).
Don't be surprised to see a Doo 850 2 stroke Turbo next year (Summit) or 2020. Patents where approved in 15/16 for Rotax, 2 stroke turbo including a patent for an electric motor assist turbine (zero lag) this uses the similar SHOT system capacitor to electrically spin the turbine at low speed throttle request via capacitor. Possible liquid cooled pipe, and ECU that controls the turbo air flow rate and boost pressure; it will have full control of the compressor speed, the pipe (liquid or not) which will match these and the direct inject fuel flow rate along with the return speed of back pressure for a more complete intake, combustion, exhaust cycle. The 2017 BRP's ECU is twice as fast input/output and also has staged injection capabilities (booster injectors). Maybe this will never happen but don't be surprised WHEN it does.
While the 900 turbo HP is not at the Sidewinder/9000 Cat level it is going to be an honest 100+lbs lighter and that is substantial.
Also, I can tell you that the 900 Ace is reliable to about 300 horsepower in stock form. It is a VERY good engine. In a snowmobile, 225 hp should be possible with just a reflash and 300 with a stock turbo upgrade. We are making 400 on a built engine with a Tial/Xona turbo.
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Old 02-26-2018, 03:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaige2 View Post
The 1200 4-tec was designed and manufactured by ROTAX, but the 1200 is in its 10th year of production the 900 is 5 years old.
The 2018 Doo 1200 Renegade 137" weight was 523lbs dry (614 wet) The 2018 900 Renegade ACE 137" was 503lbs (594 wet). 850 ETEC Renegade 137" is 485lbs (576 wet). Ski doo claimed 25lbs lighter with the G4 chassis but 850 vs the 800 etec in the same trim is actually only 10lbs lighter.
An integrated turbo will add 15lbs, an aftermarket will add 12-20lbs depending on who's kit you buy.
The 900 ACE Doo motor is about 2" narrower than the 1200, and the 900 motor (motor only/ not exhaust) is 20+lbs lighter than the 1200 motor/motor, not to mention a better valve train, head design, crank rods and pistons as well as carrying its weight lower then the 1200. The G4 is a narrow chassis, they can't get the 1200 in it with out major chassis mods. The 900 is a newer motor than the 1200 and the 1200 weights more.
The 2018 Ace 900 max rpm is 7250, 1200 is 7850, both run + 400rpm on the field. I'm quite sure you will see the ACE turbo spinning 8200-8400rpm, however Doo will indicate 8000rpm as max.
BRP/Rotax seem to modify/upgrade their motors about 3-5years into the motor production, (like 800 to 800HO) or let it run its course as is (1200). The 1200 was an over achiever on the snow, but 2019 will be the last year for them (Expedition only).
Don't be surprised to see a Doo 850 2 stroke Turbo next year (Summit) or 2020. Patents where approved in 15/16 for Rotax, 2 stroke turbo including a patent for an electric motor assist turbine (zero lag) this uses the similar SHOT system capacitor to electrically spin the turbine at low speed throttle request via capacitor. Possible liquid cooled pipe, and ECU that controls the turbo air flow rate and boost pressure; it will have full control of the compressor speed, the pipe (liquid or not) which will match these and the direct inject fuel flow rate along with the return speed of back pressure for a more complete intake, combustion, exhaust cycle. The 2017 BRP's ECU is twice as fast input/output and also has staged injection capabilities (booster injectors). Maybe this will never happen but don't be surprised WHEN it does.
While the 900 turbo HP is not at the Sidewinder/9000 Cat level it is going to be an honest 100+lbs lighter and that is substantial.
Ok, so that all means, if I interpreted it right, that you believe the Ace 900T in Renegade trim will be between 518 and 523lbs. So 33 to 38 lbs heavier than an 850 Renegade. Just trying to get a handle on the weight of this thing because people are all over the place on it.
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
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That is exactly right, maybe lighter but only a scale will tell.
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:03 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I'm think 503 dry 594 wet,, sounds heavy but not when you check it out.
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