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Lubrication of the water pump shaft... ?

10K views 21 replies 7 participants last post by  426 birdhunter 
#1 ·
I'm curious about how the lubrication is done of the water pump shaft gear.
Can anyone explain the details för me ?
Preferably with photos.

Sno-Pro 440 ( 2003 - 2006 )
 

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#2 · (Edited)
To the best of my knowledge
2002 1st yr of the 440 laydown was oil injected and oil fed to the gear from the bottom via oil line.
2003 the pump removed and a block off plate used and appeared problems with the retainer galling on the shaft started happening so an updated retainer was recommended with a brass sleeve in the nose of it.
2004? 2005 holes were drilled in the case near the reed assemblies to help lubricate the hollow cavity were the gears reside.
Pic of the case I tried drilling and broke the bit off inside...
The new C Tech engines fill the cavity with oil and a 1/4 inch line keeps oil fed from the pump.
Hope this helps
 
#3 · (Edited)
Oil Injection delete... ?

To the best of my knowledge....
:bc: THANX for your answer !

I have done a Oil Injection delete/elimination on wife's sled since the oil pump not working satisfactory.

But something does not seems to be ok.

I have filled the space where the water pump shaft is with oil and mounted a small oil reservoir instead of the large bulky one.
But as soon as I start the engine,
It starts to consume oil from the oil reservoir and the level drops
and the engine smoke like crazy.

1. Is not the space where the water pump's shaft sits sealed against the crankcases ?
2. Or do the crank have a bad crankseal against the waterpump shaft space so the oil just leaks through ?


 
#7 · (Edited)
There not designed for the cavity to hold oil,
assume it flows thru the bearing/seal.
The 2018 sno cross c tech uses a reservoir similar to your system and I understand they do use a bit of oil while racing.
But what makes the oil seep through the crank seals ?

If they not can hold pressureless oil inside,
how can they resist pressure from the crankcase to hold vacuum/pressure as they must,
to make the engine run propperly ?

I don't see why you wouldn't just replace the oil pump?
Oil injection delete is like backwards engineering. Install new oil pump, set it up, get fuel at a gas station as opposed to mixing in a jerry can.
Because I do not want to. :c-n:
 
#8 · (Edited)
Trying to learn about the Suzuki laydown engine...

I'm a little lost on the Suzuki made laydown engines, that is why I ask so much.

I have owned BRP products ( LYNX ) for more than 30 years, so I have a good knowledge of their Rotax engines.

Since the middle 70's the watercooled Rotax engine's have been build the same way concerning the waterpump drive from the crankshaft and so on.
Rotax simply use a radial seal on each side of the waterpump gear.

Just fill the waterpump cavity, connect the 2 oil lines to the little oil bottle ( gravity feed ) ---> And go out racing/trail riding or whatever.
Never ever had any problem with oil seeping throuh the crank seals.

...therefore I assumed that it was about the same system on the Suzuki made laydown the engine.
 

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#10 ·
On my 440 I do not have oil injection on them and I never have had a problem with the shaft When I pull the motors down to be rebuilt there is always oil there in between the cases at the shaft. I do believe the seals are not like a Rotax. I have a crank that is total disassembled I will look at it closer tomorrow and try to post a pic. When they use to inject oil it was a very very tiny amount. I do believe your problem is it is sucking so much oil into your motor. That is your problem disconnect it.
 
#12 ·
Ok I looked at the crank I had taken apart for me. The seals they show you on a parts diagram are NOT like the seals you have a picture like the Rotax. These are metal discs that are a snug fit on crank but has some clearance I did not check to see how much I can if you want. Then there is a metal seal ring around the outside of it. This is really your case seal between halves.
So unless you broke a ring those seals should be just fine. I really don't think you should be adding oil to the center of the case. My last build with no oil pump installed, I lubed every thing real good with 2 stroke oil and added some extra in the center than bolted case together. Done never any problems as long as it is shimmed correct and use the updated shaft retainer you should be good.
 
#18 ·
Did a delete on a SP500 and filled the cavity with oil on the first run. It all smoked out in a few minutes. I've heard of others using grease and adding adding zerk fittings to the cover plate and bottom hole to re-grease once in awhile.

I did the case mod to get oil to the gear. About 2000 miles since the mod with no issues. A link to a pic of the case mod below.

http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1744297&d=1480530934
 
#19 ·
Did a oil delete on a SP500 and filled the cavity with oil on the first run.
It all smoked out in a few minutes.
I did the case mod instead to get oil to the gear.
About 2000 miles since the mod with no issues.
Thanx for the Picture.
I not have the time to split the engine and drill the upper case.
If I must open the engine I thinking of change the crank seals to radial ones.
 
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