Delrin Spinning the Clutch Half ? - HCS Snowmobile Forums

XC This is a brand-specific forum. Posts on this forum are assumed to be questions aimed at similar model owners, and are not looking for comments of a sarcastic or "bashing" nature. Please be aware that if you violate this policy you are in danger of losing your posting privileges on this website.The calling out or posting of another members personal information IE phone number or address is prohibited.

Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-08-2019, 08:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 193
Current Sled(s): 2010 Rush 600
Previous Sled(s): Always ski-doo or polaris. Currently polaris
Location: Michigan
Favorite Riding Area: Michigan upper and lower
19-20 Mileage:
18-19 Mileage: Many Miles
17-18 Mileage: Not Great
16-17 Mileage: Not great
Age: 48
Riding Since: 1986
Default Delrin Spinning the Clutch Half ?

My buddy put a delrin washer in the secondary of his 04' 600 edge - put the delrin between the clutch half and the spring cup/retainer (#10) and the clutch half seemed to spin to where the adjuster screw ground down into the big washer between the halves. This caused his new belt to tighten up and he smoked it. Did he put the washer in the wrong place ? Has anyone experienced this ?
Attached Images
 
RidinMi is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-08-2019, 09:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
patrioticinnovations's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,623
Current Sled(s): 2015 AXYS Pr-S SB Ann 800, 2019 Indy 850.
Previous Sled(s): 2003 XCR 1100, 2000 XCR 800, 2005 Redline Revolt 800.
Location: SE Lower Michigan
Favorite Riding Area: Cadillac, Gaylord
19-20 Mileage:
18-19 Mileage: 849 so far
17-18 Mileage: 1280
16-17 Mileage: 1115
Riding Since: 1982
Default

That's the right place for the Delrin.
It shouldn't cause any issues with deflection adjustment.
He must have had another problem. Like a wrong length belt, or a brand new one that was too tight for the previous deflection setting.
A belt doesn't just smoke due to tight deflection unless he ignored the squealing for a long time.
Or he has a broken engine mount or strap. Or a badly misaligned secondary.
patrioticinnovations is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2019, 09:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 37,211
Current Sled(s): 05 600 xcsp 50th
Previous Sled(s): All of the big 4
Location: Ct.
Favorite Riding Area: Ma.
19-20 Mileage:
18-19 Mileage: not much
Age: 6
Riding Since: 70 s
Default

Your suppose to put that delrin washer in the spring cup between/under the spring. Its really only a bandaid to help the spring from binding as its compressed. Some say to use the 3 delrin washers for these team rollers but i saw no difference between using all 3 or just 1.
As far as the adjuster bolt grinding, or scoring issue...you need to drill, and tap and another hole 180 degrees apart from the oem one to help prevent that.
too slow is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Old 11-08-2019, 02:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 193
Current Sled(s): 2010 Rush 600
Previous Sled(s): Always ski-doo or polaris. Currently polaris
Location: Michigan
Favorite Riding Area: Michigan upper and lower
19-20 Mileage:
18-19 Mileage: Many Miles
17-18 Mileage: Not Great
16-17 Mileage: Not great
Age: 48
Riding Since: 1986
Default

You could see it was spinning and ground down the adjuster bolt and grooved the washer all the way around. Enough to make metal shavings and with the bolt ground down and the depth of the groove brought the halves closer together. He said he did a delrin washer and just a new spring to freshen it up. Kinda crazy, haven't seen that happen. He removed the adjuster bolt and ordered two more of those big washers and is going to shim it old school.
RidinMi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 08:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
northstarrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 9,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidinMi View Post
You could see it was spinning and ground down the adjuster bolt and grooved the washer all the way around. Enough to make metal shavings and with the bolt ground down and the depth of the groove brought the halves closer together. He said he did a delrin washer and just a new spring to freshen it up. Kinda crazy, haven't seen that happen. He removed the adjuster bolt and ordered two more of those big washers and is going to shim it old school.
$21 from Polaris these were $4.99 from venom. at venom and team these are obslete. Polaris has a limited stock. i have had to replace a number of these on the tss-98 this year. the tss-04 won't fit the tss-98 we are having these made right now. but will be a while has to go to plater's. the roller bearing will fit both the tss-98 and 04. we just put one in a 550 trail touring. changed the driven spring from a red/blk. 140/240 to a blk./grn. 140/220 spring. what a difference driving it on grass. the sled would crank the ski's 2' in the air. no belt slip at all. where before we couldn't have done this without belt slipping like crazy. owner weight's 300lbs. drove it up on a plywood trailer no guides. and almost hit his car. guy said it would never do that. would go about half way and slip the belt. he would have to push drag it the rest of the way? the roller bearing made a huge difference. now to test this on snow. but not slipping the belt or dragging a low h.p. motor down is a big difference.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Northstar Performance Products
Stage 1,2,3 clutch kits
Oil tank vent kits
Doo T-Stat bypass kits
Rush/Axys A-Arm bushing kits
550 fan upgrade kit

Our products have been race tested and proven all across North America!

Authorized dealer for
SLP
RK-Tek
WPS
US Chrome
Thunder Products
Automatic Distributors
Venom/Team Ind.
Redline Oil
Klotz Racing Synthetics
K100
northstarrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 09:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 37,211
Current Sled(s): 05 600 xcsp 50th
Previous Sled(s): All of the big 4
Location: Ct.
Favorite Riding Area: Ma.
19-20 Mileage:
18-19 Mileage: not much
Age: 6
Riding Since: 70 s
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by northstarrick View Post
$21 from Polaris these were $4.99 from venom. at venom and team these are obslete. Polaris has a limited stock. i have had to replace a number of these on the tss-98 this year. the tss-04 won't fit the tss-98 we are having these made right now. but will be a while has to go to plater's. the roller bearing will fit both the tss-98 and 04. we just put one in a 550 trail touring. changed the driven spring from a red/blk. 140/240 to a blk./grn. 140/220 spring. what a difference driving it on grass. the sled would crank the ski's 2' in the air. no belt slip at all. where before we couldn't have done this without belt slipping like crazy. owner weight's 300lbs. drove it up on a plywood trailer no guides. and almost hit his car. guy said it would never do that. would go about half way and slip the belt. he would have to push drag it the rest of the way? the roller bearing made a huge difference. now to test this on snow. but not slipping the belt or dragging a low h.p. motor down is a big difference.
Never mind installing that bearing in those clutches...you get even better results with a team tied clutch. I had the tss-98 team on my 05 600...switched to a tied, it it improved the sleds performance by 2 sled lengths in a 1000', plus it performs better on the trail.
too slow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 11:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,056
Current Sled(s): 2013 Rush Pro R 800 retro 2001 XCSP 700
Location: Mn
19-20 Mileage:
18-19 Mileage: 1400
17-18 Mileage: 1200
16-17 Mileage: 1000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by too slow View Post
Never mind installing that bearing in those clutches...you get even better results with a team tied clutch. I had the tss-98 team on my 05 600...switched to a tied, it it improved the sleds performance by 2 sled lengths in a 1000', plus it performs better on the trail.

Honest question, did you ever try one with the roller bearing in it? Maybe that would wash the difference. Also, got me thinking, picking up another tss-04, and doing a torsion conversion, with a roller bearing. Unless the spring cup is supposed to be removed. But if it stays in, that might be killer.

I am going to do a back to back this winter at some point. I am going to run mine with the gabes secondary set up as sent from him, then try it with a 140/220 secondary spring, gabes is stiffer on both sides, I will keep the numbers to myself, even though it's really not a secret, but it's not my place to give those up, and the roller thrust washer. I think that might be the ticket. I will probably try it with both springs, but word on the street is you don't need as much spring, which, should be a plus for shift out and top end, without losing back shift.
northstarrick likes this.

Last edited by Frankie406; 11-12-2019 at 11:58 AM.
Frankie406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 01:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 37,211
Current Sled(s): 05 600 xcsp 50th
Previous Sled(s): All of the big 4
Location: Ct.
Favorite Riding Area: Ma.
19-20 Mileage:
18-19 Mileage: not much
Age: 6
Riding Since: 70 s
Default

The tss-98 and 04 will still have a scrubbing action between the sheaves which generates more heat, and requires shallower helix angles that result in slower performance. That bearing doesn't address that, it only keeps the spring from binding. The tied clutch has all that engineered in it already, and more to prevent any spring bind. We've tried much of that stuff in the past, imo you take the time to setup a tied clutch right, your not going to find much that will perform much better.
too slow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 01:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
northstarrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 9,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by too slow View Post
The tss-98 and 04 will still have a scrubbing action between the sheaves which generates more heat, and requires shallower helix angles that result in slower performance. That bearing doesn't address that, it only keeps the spring from binding. The tied clutch has all that engineered in it already, and more to prevent any spring bind. We've tried much of that stuff in the past, imo you take the time to setup a tied clutch right, your not going to find much that will perform much better.
not one drag racer uses a tied clutch. and neither does sno-x or xc.? it's not all that. we spanked it repeatedly in drag race testing. the only advantage was a tad bit more top end in a very long run. we are not sold on it. and team even told us it's not a big seller? the sno-x sleds all brands come with a tss-04. don't you think for one minute if there was a advantage these would come with them? it's not money as both cost within a few dollars of one another. any advantage it may had was lost in weight. rotating mass is a huge issue. it's heavier than a tss-04 by a lot.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Northstar Performance Products
Stage 1,2,3 clutch kits
Oil tank vent kits
Doo T-Stat bypass kits
Rush/Axys A-Arm bushing kits
550 fan upgrade kit

Our products have been race tested and proven all across North America!

Authorized dealer for
SLP
RK-Tek
WPS
US Chrome
Thunder Products
Automatic Distributors
Venom/Team Ind.
Redline Oil
Klotz Racing Synthetics
K100

Last edited by northstarrick; 11-13-2019 at 01:25 AM.
northstarrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 09:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
Super Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie406 View Post

I am going to do a back to back this winter at some point. I am going to run mine with the gabes secondary set up as sent from him, then try it with a 140/220 secondary spring, gabes is stiffer on both sides, I will keep the numbers to myself, even though it's really not a secret, but it's not my place to give those up, and the roller thrust washer. I think that might be the ticket. I will probably try it with both springs, but word on the street is you don't need as much spring, which, should be a plus for shift out and top end, without losing back shift.
I've run this setup lots. the 140/220 spring will not be enough spring even with the bearing setup.
sixpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:51 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.