Handling Problem - Page 2 - HCS Snowmobile Forums

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Old 01-29-2006, 03:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Try setting the couplers to the highest/tightest setting. Most FCats transer too much weight under acceleration. With all the studs and the deep track you are hooked up while rolling and the couplers will help to keep your skis on the snow when in mid corner.
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by wizzard717@Jan 29 2006, 12:47 AM
I am having the same problem but i dont think its as bad....on my old ZR, i could literally throw the sled into a corner and just hammer the gas and it would rail the corner like a rollercoaster...my f-cat is not even close to that. I figured that its just some getting used to...i hope. The next thing is, when riding over the moguls and the bigger bumps, it feels like the sled wants to throw me off. I am thinking that my rear suspension is set too stiff....there are three settings and i have it on the stiffest. If i changed this setting to loosen it up....shouldnt that help me out ??? I mean i am having trouble keeping up in our group with guys who ride 500's. you'd think i catch them on the straight aways but i cant ride too fast cause the sled feels like it wants to throw me off over the bumps ! !* I am not a real big guy either... 5'10 175....too stiff ??????????

?????
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Your right, your torsion springs are WAAAAAAY too stiff/ I run the standared Firecat springs on the softest setting and they are just right. When I had the Sno Pro springs on it I couldn't even use 75% of the suspension travel.
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by DustyF7@Jan 29 2006, 01:55 AM
Ive did it all..*

Firecat can not be compared to a ZR as far as cornering bye no means..
ZR will out corner a firecat.. hands-down...

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Mine handles like a slot car..........I don't think you tried everything.

My Firecats runs circles arround my ZR's
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Here is a quick setup guide for F5-6-7SP's. I have not done one with floats yet, so you guys are on your own there.

1. Set the torsion (rear springs) as soft as they will go. If you are over 200lbs you can ramp them up a bit, but you are looking for a minimum of 2" of sag with the rider seated, and you definitly don't want the sled topped out in back even under it's own weight (even though it will with the stock springs)

2. Wind the center shock spring out all the way until it's losse and the run it in 5mm.

3. Wind the ski springs out all the way, and then run them in 5mm

4. Put for bathroom scales under the sled. One under each ski, one under the track where the front track shock attaches to the rail and put the last scale under the rear bogie wheels.

5. Pull the limiter straps up untill you have about 80lbs on the center shock scale. You should have about 17 on the rear and 145 on each ski.

These steps will get you sled turning like mad.

And if you want it to turn so hard you brain will leak out of your ears get the correct rate springs for you weight (the stock ones are for a 200+lb rider). Then mount the rear skid point in the upper posistion. Move the lower mounting point for the center shock back one hole. Set the sag in the rear at 2". Set the sag in the front at 3" and then re-adjust the limiter straps to get 80lbs on the center shock scale again.
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Firsttraxx

There is no adjustment for the limiter straps on a 05 f7 snopro!!!!!!
You have to drill your own holes in the straps.

Here is my setup,I weigh 175
45 lbs in the floats
front shock about an inch from bottom
rear springs on softest setting.

I drilled 2 more holes in the limiter straps an inch apart from each other so I could pull the front down some more.
I tried it on the third hole but it was to heavy on the front,moved it to the second hole and that was just right for me,handles great and noooo more corner ski lift.

It's not a big job to drill 2 more holes in each limiter strap.

That's with stock carbides and 160 some studs.
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Old 01-29-2006, 05:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Make sure that you've loosend the skid front shock. From the factory they come wound super tight and cause mad inside ski lift. Then put your limiters back to stock position, with them sucked up you loose track contact with the snow, seems to make a big difference for some reason on 05 sp's. Next throw the coupling blocks in your tool box, this will soften and give some ride in sag in the rear if your light, these two things adjustments on my 05F6SP made the sled a different beast. I run the floats between 55-65 psi depending on conditions and its the best handling sled i've ever had or ridden for that matter. I get zero push, however I'm running C&A's with old stud boy 6" switchback carbides. With the rear setup properly, added ski pressure is as easy as adding more air to the floats. The factory setup on mine caused insane inside ski lift to the point of nearly tipping over at every corner, was way to stiff for my 150lbs, would pitch me hard in big g outs and moguls, but those simple adjustments have gotten it pretty much perfect, I laugh in my helmet everytime I go through bumps now.
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Old 01-29-2006, 05:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I feel your pain brotha'.The past couple of days I was fighting the sled like nobody's business.First step,I tightened the coupler block which helped but,riding way-up on the sled's tank helped a great deal.I didn't discover this until my ride was almost over.I will certainly try the other tips that were added above.I have no other complaints about the sled.It's goes like a raped ape on crack!
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Old 01-29-2006, 06:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by sqidd@Jan 29 2006, 03:31 PM
Here is a quick setup guide for F5-6-7SP's. I have not done one with floats yet, so you guys are on your own there.

1. Set the torsion (rear springs) as soft as they will go. If you are over 200lbs you can ramp them up a bit, but you are looking for a minimum of 2" of sag with the rider seated, and you definitly don't want the sled topped out in back even under it's own weight (even though it will with the stock springs)

2. Wind the center shock spring out all the way until it's losse and the run it in 5mm.

3. Wind the ski springs out all the way, and then run them in 5mm

4. Put for bathroom scales under the sled. One under each ski, one under the track where the front track shock attaches to the rail and put the last scale under the rear bogie wheels.

5. Pull the limiter straps up untill you have about 80lbs on the center shock scale. You should have about 17 on the rear and 145 on each ski.

These steps will get you sled turning like mad.

And if you want it to turn so hard you brain will leak out of your ears get the correct rate springs for you weight (the stock ones are for a 200+lb rider). Then mount the rear skid point in the upper posistion. Move the lower mounting point for the center shock back one hole. Set the sag in the rear at 2". Set the sag in the front at 3" and then re-adjust the limiter straps to get 80lbs on the center shock scale again.
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Sqidd,
Would this setup for the suspension work on a 04 F7 EFI Standard?
Thanks,
Jeff :banana:
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Old 01-29-2006, 08:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by indytriple@Jan 29 2006, 05:10 PM
Make sure that you've loosend the skid front shock.* From the factory they come wound super tight and* cause mad inside ski lift.* Then put your limiters back to stock position, with them sucked up you loose track contact with the snow, seems to make a big difference for some reason on 05 sp's.* Next throw the coupling blocks in your tool box, this will soften and give some ride in sag in the rear if your light, these two things adjustments on my 05F6SP made the sled a different beast.* I run the floats between 55-65 psi depending on conditions and its the best handling sled i've ever had or ridden for that matter.* I get zero push, however I'm running C&A's with old stud boy 6" switchback carbides.* With the rear setup properly, added ski pressure is as easy as adding more air to the floats.* The factory setup on mine caused insane inside ski lift to the point of nearly tipping over at every corner, was way to stiff for my 150lbs, would pitch me hard in big g outs and moguls, but those simple adjustments have gotten it pretty much perfect, I laugh in my helmet everytime I go through bumps now.
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A lot of good advice in here. But getting the sled to go through bumps good and go through corners good are two completely different setups. There is always a comprimise.

Some of the mods you did worked for you, but there were comprimises made. By removing the coupler blocks you are working the rear springs harder which is a good thing because they are waaaaay to stiff for your weight. The downside is that you are not using some of the advantages that the coupler blocks have to offer you.

I don't want to come across like some sort of know it all, but I have spent years tuning suspension on motorcycles. I know you are probably saying "but what does that have to do with sleds?". The answer to that is everything. Suspension is suspension. Your ultimate goal is to control the bike/sled/car. I have hours and hours into teasting and my setups have broken track records.

I have been screwing arround with my F5 all year trying to find the best possible setup. I have a lot of advantages. I know how suspension and geometry work, I have a lot of fast guys running arround on F series sleds right now and I do a lot of testing. I'm not going to tell you I have all the answers, but from what I have seen and from the people I have talked to I have most of them. Snowmobiling suspension is not nearly as developed as motorcycle stuff, motorcycle stuff gets a lot more attention.

I can say, from the bottom of my heart I can set an F series sled up so well that it's actualy better than the trail you will be riding on. At this point my sled handles so good that I ride it too fast for public trails. The plus side to taht is it handles great, the down side is that if I want to push the limits I'm running dangerous fast.

So where the hell am I going with this you ask?

A Firecat can be set up fairly well with the equipment that they come with. I can take a stock SP and get it to handle very well with some chassis adjustments and setting the spring preload. The problem with Firecat SP's are the springs are hostile agressive.....waaaaaay too stiff. Most of the setup that people are doing on F sleds is to work arround the fact tha springs are too stiff. The real solution to getting a Fcat to handle is to put a set of springs on it.....period. Springs are 75% of the suspension, and when they are bad you will never get it set up right.

For example, right now I have Ohlins shocks on my sled. My ski springs and center shock spring are 15% lighter than the stock SP springs.....thats a lot. And I still don't bottom the sled out ever! I switched the torsion springs in the back to standard Firecat ones and have them on the softest setting.

I have some suspension info posed here Suspension Info for roadrace stuff. I am putting together a comprehensive setup guide for Firecats pretty soon with pictures, spring charts, etc. I am still collecting some data to finish it up though. Take some time to read the roadrace setup stuff, the smae basic principals apply.
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Old 01-29-2006, 08:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffory@Jan 29 2006, 06:35 PM
Sqidd,
Would this setup for the suspension work on a 04 F7 EFI Standard?
Thanks,
Jeff :banana:
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I have not had a chance to get standard ski and center shock springs in my spring tester yet, so I don't know what preloads to suggest you run. But I can run you through a good basic setup, you will just need to do some testing yourself. The first thing you should do is read the setup guide I have a link to in the post above. This will get you familiar with the terminology, how to check sag, etc.

Start by setting all the springs as light as they will go. Set the ski shocks at 10mm of preload and the center shock at 10mm of preload. Set the rear torsion springs as light as they will go.

Next, the most important thing you are going to do is where you set your limiter straps. You will need scales for this. You are looking for 75-85lbs or so on the center shock scale.

Then set your sag, You are looking for 3" of front sag and 2" of rear. Don't worry about it being exactly that, but get as close as you can.

After you have it set up like this run Zip ties on the shock shafts and go ride it. If you bottom a shock out add a little spring preload, test, repeat.

I need a set of standard Firecat shocks so I can test the spring rates. Once I get this I can make a spring chart and the biggest setup issue will be as simple as just picking the cotrrect rate springs off of the chart and poping them on, setting the sag and letting er rip. I suspect the standard springs are actualy a better rate fopr trail riding than most think.
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